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  #41  
Old 6 January 2006, 15:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtorak28
My "understanding" is that CAPOC will remain in place.
Remain under USASOC or transition to FORSCOM along with RC PSYOP and CA?
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  #42  
Old 6 January 2006, 15:36
Krall Krall is offline
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Having been there when they were under the RC the first time - and then watching the cut of the RC PSYOP - I disagree. Am also privy to what's going on and yes the command stays there.

The RC doesn't have the funding and that's still an issue being worked - in the olden days... heh heh - the biggest problem on the RC side was being apportioned with the same equipment that the AC had in a timely manner. Some of this is coming full circle. That's all I am concerned with is that we will end up with the same or similar issues that existed prior.

I was never in the RC, but was fortunate to hate them in the old days and then learned to appreciate them. Using the word “boot” is very inappropriate in my opinion. Would you consider booting the NG SF units from SOF ? or any of the other service reserve SOF ? or is commando solo an AC AF unit these days ?

Having been one of the assholes that helped develop the “tactical” mentality in 9th, as it was necessary, I do occasionally regret it. If we are to play (I did not say play nice) in the big Army regardless of whether under SOF or not, our RC components need to be right there with us or we need to get rid of them as a whole. Getting rid of them as a whole means ingesting them (yes, as in eating) into the AC as AC billets – then when there are smaller conflicts we can watch the AC PSYOP end strength cut up. So the RC is necessary. MEDCOM units are all under MEDCOM and INSCOM units are ? and as long as PSYOP is under USASOC and USSOCOM and PSYOP doctrine is joint I will say that PSYOP all belongs together (CA too) --

This is totally a politically driven issue - not one of common sense or even practicality –
The study by USSOCOM and USASOC recommended to keep them.

My two cents – my rant – etc..
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  #43  
Old 6 January 2006, 15:43
Krall Krall is offline
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As far as I know there is no execute order or anything from upon high. But rumor has it.....

The command stays physically and eventually (TBD) becomes a star command under FORSCOM for RC only.

AC falls back to the old days directly under USASOC.... aka the old 1st SOCOM days when 4th and 96th fell directly subordinate to 1st SOCOM prior to USACAPOC and USASOC standing up - the RC was called ARSOF or some such and fell under USARC/OCAR - it also included two RC SF groups before they were cut.

Full circle gentlemen -

OMG I was a witness..... this sucks - almost as bad as watching Buker street get renovated
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  #44  
Old 6 January 2006, 17:15
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Considering SWCS retains proponency this will be interesting.

Buker street was renovated???? You must be old...:D
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Last edited by 37F5V; 6 January 2006 at 17:44.
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  #45  
Old 6 January 2006, 18:41
PSYWAR 1-0 PSYWAR 1-0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krall
OMG I was a witness..... this sucks - almost as bad as watching Buker street get renovated
I was almost ready to change my sig line to "One of the last of the Buker Street Bad Boys!"

Those were some Heady days, looking back I shouldnt have been so eager to get to 1st, what little time I ended up staying there and my ensuing bad jump................
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  #46  
Old 6 January 2006, 22:17
Krall Krall is offline
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Yeah - We are not all dead yet...........

You would be surprised at how amny are out there somewhere - hanging

I remember when I first got there in 86 - omg....

PSYOP was just re-awakening from a long slumber - lots of ideas and talk but it was a dump. The folks from the first 10 classes of 96F built what we all enjoy today and many of those folks are long forgotton.

98E and 31V were on HB teams with one 96F and in some cases 96B with W identifiers who opted not to go thru the course. Vietnam era doctrine dominated - regional Bns with their own Special Studies Group. Oh what a joy changing the world inside out. NCOs were being recruited from within the Army to flush out the new MOS - so we pulled in folks from every MOS you can think of.

Yeah I feel old some days - but not that damn old -:)

There was no working with SF or Rangers - we were the laughing stock of SOF - support was limited even with Tactical teams as they were few in numbers - Airborne status had not happened yet.... but soon did and all of us exhuberent assholes attemtepted to build something that would envelop the Army and other services... Thinking outside the box was the biggest key to the initial success of which all who followed carried the torch.

Anyone have tears yet...? lol - I've lost my touch

I think we did a good job.... lol

But you all carry a heavy burden of doing better than we -

Oh and if the RC had not been there then and now we would have failed - they are as much a part of the legacy as well as the future
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  #47  
Old 6 January 2006, 22:18
Krall Krall is offline
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spell checker is not my friend.......

Anyone remember Tom Wende
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  #48  
Old 7 January 2006, 18:55
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Good read everyone........I am still inthe entrance process of the pipeline and am trying to gain as much knowledge as possible. I have spent alot of time in the Army already and requested a reclass into this field. I think I made the good choice, everyone seems to be much happier here than in the "Big politically correct Army"
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  #49  
Old 7 January 2006, 20:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krall
spell checker is not my friend.......

Anyone remember Tom Wende
I think he was comming into the TAAD in 1st when I was turning it over to head to Ven?
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  #50  
Old 7 January 2006, 22:49
Krall Krall is offline
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That would be him - he works with me now -- or should I say again

He was with me in 9th before he went to 1st
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  #51  
Old 8 January 2006, 08:23
PSYWAR 1-0 PSYWAR 1-0 is offline
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Doubt that he remembers me, but tell him Luke from the TAAD in 1st Says Hello!
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  #52  
Old 8 January 2006, 23:45
ODA 564 ODA 564 is offline
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Krall = Co. B, 6th POG Krall?

I skimmed through this.

If ya'll want an old-school (Norman / Dunbar-era) PSYOPer's perspective... (and former Africa Company commander)... yeah, and a guy that used to run A/3 1st SWTGA when it was the PSYOP company (and was the first chief of the DOTD PSYOP DIV when it was stood back up...).

First, its the mission. That flows from the National Objectives, from whence cometh the Theater Campaign Plan, and by which the supported unit is supported. Fucked up NOs and everything else is fucked up. Quick, who is the enemy and what is our National Objective? If we can't name the foe or succinctly describe what is evil about him, then we can't move forward with effective PSYOP (that 'tiny minority' isn't tiny - and they didn't hijack a religion of peace).

Second, its the mission. Tactical proficency for a PSYOP soldier isn't shooting and humping a ruck - though all Soldiers need to be able to do that. We don't say "PFC Jones is an awesome mechanic! He gets 360 on his AFPT, shoots expert and was Soldier of the Month, but strangely all the vehicles he fixes stay broken..." No, its "PFC Jones is an awesome mechanic! He can fix anything in a heartbeat AND he gets 360 on his APFT..."

A PSYOP Soldier must be PSYOP mission proficent. That is the measure by which he must be rated. Period. Discipline? Sure. Basic Soldier skills? Sure. I lived through the era where the 4th POG senior NCO corps was broken or failed SF, IN or MI MSGs and CSMs who wouldn't know PSYOP if it bit them. They spent their days fucking over guys like Lindsey, Krall, etc. because they didn't understand what the fuck we DID.

The Tactical / Regional split that Tony Norman designed was not designed to support a general war or this OPTEMPO. Hell, it failed in DS/DS when the 6th had to be converted to a tactical battalion. The regional orientation is also broken. A new 37F might start out in 9th POB (because he's a he) and gets assigned where there is a hole - and hopefully it matches his language, then he makes SGT and gets sent to a regional POB for PDC time, and goes whereever there is a hole, want to bet if it matches his regional experience and / or original language? Then he makes SFC, etc.

Shouldn't we address the experience / assignment / language mismatch as part of career progression?

And the schoolhouse. POOC is how long now? It was (once) six months. Then it was six weeks.... And lets mix 37F and 38A AIT! Just because that worthless RC CA "AIT Development Team" wasted oxygen for 3 years and then just copied the 37F AIT rather than actually creating a 38A AIT (and what would a PVT in a CA unit due, anyway? Carry the luggage?). Let's have our own damn PSYOP training pipeline again and quit cutting training time.

Lets re-learn the old lessons. Read all three volumes of the case book. Maybe Sefton Delmer, OPERATION MAILBAG and the Chinese New Year leaflet screw-up of the 1st Radio Broadcasting and Leaflet Bn have lessons for us today.

IO. I wrote the ARSOF part of the original piece of shit FM 100-6. It was written by a fucked-up TRADOC committee. I told them (and the Assistant Commandant, COL MItchell) "IO, as you describe it, is PSYOP" (I added 'motherfuckers' in my head). COL Mitchell agreed. TRADOC was too busy trying to figure a way to justify new GS-15 slots. COL Dan Devlin (that sweet leg motherfucker) used to say "Everything is PSYOP." he was right.

And speaking of legs... gee, I'm glad the whole 4th POG is airborne. Its made the difference in OEF and OIF, you betcha!

And Joe Alderman, you poor dead SOB... thanks for killing the Joint PSYOP Staff Planners Course!
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  #53  
Old 9 January 2006, 04:42
hvy_drop hvy_drop is offline
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Damn, Brother...now I gotta tear in my eye!!!:D
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  #54  
Old 9 January 2006, 07:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODA 564
The Tactical / Regional split that Tony Norman designed was not designed to support a general war or this OPTEMPO. Hell, it failed in DS/DS when the 6th had to be converted to a tactical battalion. The regional orientation is also broken. A new 37F might start out in 9th POB (because he's a he) and gets assigned where there is a hole - and hopefully it matches his language, then he makes SGT and gets sent to a regional POB for PDC time, and goes whereever there is a hole, want to bet if it matches his regional experience and / or original language? Then he makes SFC, etc.

Shouldn't we address the experience / assignment / language mismatch as part of career progression?

Let's have our own damn PSYOP training pipeline again and quit cutting training time.

And speaking of legs... gee, I'm glad the whole 4th POG is airborne. Its made the difference in OEF and OIF, you betcha!
I see things have been this way for a while.
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  #55  
Old 9 January 2006, 11:37
Krall Krall is offline
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Oh yeah -

Let it all out..........

Exhale..................

Frustration frustration frustration

Yep - this crap has been going on a long while.........

LOL
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  #56  
Old 9 January 2006, 11:45
Krall Krall is offline
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[QUOTE=ODA 564]Krall = Co. B, 6th POG Krall?

I skimmed through this.

If ya'll want an old-school (Norman / Dunbar-era) PSYOPer's perspective... (and former Africa Company commander)... yeah, and a guy that used to run A/3 1st SWTGA when it was the PSYOP company (and was the first chief of the DOTD PSYOP DIV when it was stood back up...).

Yes - It is I

Former BOHICA Club and Buker Street Daddys club member (I'm no longer a boy)

How the hell you been - havn't heard from you since retirement ->
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  #57  
Old 9 January 2006, 11:52
Krall Krall is offline
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Oh -- forgot

Spoke with Lindsay for the first time in 8 years yesterday - he went off the map after he left Bragg...

Luck would just have it that he magically appeared......

He's doing well in Idaho - divorced, no current relationship and raising 5 kids on his own....

He hasn't changed except for what age does to us all --

He's off the net right now - but I have his email addy if you want it - send private msg etc..
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  #58  
Old 9 January 2006, 12:06
Krall Krall is offline
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Quote:
A PSYOP Soldier must be PSYOP mission proficent. That is the measure by which he must be rated. Period. Discipline? Sure. Basic Soldier skills? Sure. I lived through the era where the 4th POG senior NCO corps was broken or failed SF, IN or MI MSGs and CSMs who wouldn't know PSYOP if it bit them. They spent their days fucking over guys like Lindsey, Krall, etc. because they didn't understand what the fuck we DID
You know - It was a waste of time and air

My most precious moments:

"I have two Bronze Star reccomendations here that were thrown in the trash because you refuse to play their game"

and

"If you were to retract your statements (Post DS) against me, I will ensure that you get this BS with V device"

and

"The reason you are not getting a LOM or anything else at retirement is politically driven by the CSM at 4th POG"

Of course I was a defiant fuck who really did not give a crap about any of their shit.... There were others.... but I just did not care about the awards and still don't - just a snapshot of how deep the crap went back then... and I'll bet, knowing some of the players, that this shit is still going on.

"They" never won - and in the end "they" lost
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  #59  
Old 10 January 2006, 12:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtorak28
I see things have been this way for a while.
I liked it the old way better too! Every battalion had the assets capable of doing the job internally. It didnt take 3 different BN S3s to get their shit together before troops were ready to deploy and conduct PSYOP missions.
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  #60  
Old 10 January 2006, 13:01
Krall Krall is offline
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LOL - I wish it were a question of like........

But actually with the growth it makes some sense (whoops - bad word) to highly consider going back to a similar configuration.
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