SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > Areas of Expertise > Medical

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #221  
Old 2 October 2019, 21:11
Sgt Jeep Sgt Jeep is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 311
Great info from PolyPro and others. I’ve been on HRT/TRT for a few years now and never really knew what all my labs meant. The Doc’s would zip through the info and throw a script at me and out the door I went. Researching the things I learned here put it all together, so, Thank you.

I started on Androgel when I was contracting and would take over a 3-month supply. I’d extend (or be extended) a few extra weeks here and there and never understood the yo-yo effect, or the mood swings I’d inevitably get when I was home. I did that for a couple of years.

A couple of years ago I found another guy on contract with me who was getting pellets and never had mood swings or yo-yo on his levels.

I found a doc and started doing pellets. Did that for about 2yrs, but had to pay out of pocket. $500 - $600 every 4-6 months. (Androgel was covered by insurance to treat my low-t, but pellets wasn’t. Didn’t make sense.) Pellets were good as putting the gel on everyday got old real quick. I felt stable on pellets but still lacking the libido and still fatigued and moody.

I’m not contracting anymore and earning a regular paycheck now, so I asked the same Doc that gave me the pellets if he would prescribe me injectables and he did. I’m using his recommended compounding pharmacy and prescribed Text/Cypionate and breaking it up 2 times a week and tweaking my amount so I can fine tune.

Labs pulled: Sept 26 at 1400hrs and 5 days from my last injection.
Test: 803
Free: Test: 19.6
SHBG: 24.32
T3: 3.56
T4: 5.9
DHEA-S: 265.34
Estradiol: 28.91
PSA: 0.9

I’m 50yoa, 5’10”, 215lbs, solid, with a gut and nowhere near as physically active as I was for the 10yrs contracting. I still feel like a moody bastard, and my libido isn’t where I want it to be. Stress at work is definitely a factor, but everything else is good. Started working out again but not to the level I was overseas.

My numbers are good all around, but I think I need to be higher, like in the 1,200 range. I’ve hit that before on my first pellet treatment. The Doc pulled labs from me in between and then dialed the next insertion down a few pellets. (I was getting 10-12 pellets at a time). I felt great at 1,200 and clearly remember the libido was amazing!

Does anyone know what the numbers for guys on a steroid cycle are? Is 1,200 too high?

Last edited by Sgt Jeep; 2 October 2019 at 21:13. Reason: Edited to add: I am a crusty old bastard and generally hate everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #222  
Old 3 October 2019, 20:54
Polypro's Avatar
Polypro Polypro is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: A Noisy Bar In Avalon
Posts: 14,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Jeep View Post

My numbers are good all around, but I think I need to be higher, like in the 1,200 range. Iíve hit that before on my first pellet treatment. The Doc pulled labs from me in between and then dialed the next insertion down a few pellets. (I was getting 10-12 pellets at a time). I felt great at 1,200 and clearly remember the libido was amazing!

Does anyone know what the numbers for guys on a steroid cycle are? Is 1,200 too high?
Mildest Test "Cycle" for non-TRT purposes (lowest is usually 500mg/wk) will have you in the thousands
3,000ng/dl and higher. 1200 is fine if your doctor deems it so, and your health markers are fine (RBC, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit). Low Libido has a ton of different causes. Your Estrogen, while "normal", may be the cause. Are you on an AI (Anastrozole a.k.a Arimidex)? I'd like to see how your libido is with Estrodiol at 35-40? You can raise your DHEA-S a bit too - top of range is 375. I like Life Extension 25mg disolving tablets under the tongue. Not a doctor, ask yours. Pellets are a money making scheme (as is Gel/Cream) - created because of some BS bias against injections, due to the holier than thou attitude in this country related to the "evil steroids" - always inject if you can.
__________________
RUMINT: Late October - The President is making it known, that his administration does not favor Red Flag Laws. Cautiously optimistic...
Reply With Quote
  #223  
Old 4 October 2019, 19:22
Sgt Jeep Sgt Jeep is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 311
I am past due to have blood drawn:
WBC: 9.44 (High with range from 4.23-9.07
RBC: 5.87 (High end of range:4.63-6.08)
Hematocrit: 54.2 (High: 40.1-51)
Hemaglobin: 18 (High: 13.7 -17.5)

I just started DHEA-S and Preg and I am taking Anastrozole once a week. I think I am going to start smaller injections 3xW and no Anastrozole.
Reply With Quote
  #224  
Old 5 October 2019, 05:59
Polypro's Avatar
Polypro Polypro is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: A Noisy Bar In Avalon
Posts: 14,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Jeep View Post
I am past due to have blood drawn:

RBC: 5.87 (High end of range:4.63-6.08)
Hematocrit: 54.2 (High: 40.1-51)
Hemaglobin: 18 (High: 13.7 -17.5)

I just started DHEA-S and Preg and I am taking Anastrozole once a week. I think I am going to start smaller injections 3xW and no Anastrozole.
What's your elevation where you live? A bazillion people who live in the mountains are out of range - and they're not all dead/have a higher mortality rate. Sounds like you have a good Doc, he'll know.

I would definitely (with his permission) try NO Anastrozole. The stuff is just not good for you. Estrogen is so cardio protective, bone mineral protective, aids is muscle mass accrual, and key for libido. Unless you develop symptoms of Gynocomastia, don't worry about E2. This is the current protocol for the big name Docs in TRT right now - smaller injections, more frequently, with no AI.
__________________
RUMINT: Late October - The President is making it known, that his administration does not favor Red Flag Laws. Cautiously optimistic...
Reply With Quote
  #225  
Old 5 October 2019, 21:25
Sgt Jeep Sgt Jeep is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 311
only 700' above sea level and no gyno.
Reply With Quote
  #226  
Old 6 October 2019, 07:52
Polypro's Avatar
Polypro Polypro is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: A Noisy Bar In Avalon
Posts: 14,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Jeep View Post
only 700' above sea level and no gyno.
Roger - go with what your Doc suggests for sure.
__________________
RUMINT: Late October - The President is making it known, that his administration does not favor Red Flag Laws. Cautiously optimistic...
Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old 6 October 2019, 11:07
Sgt Jeep Sgt Jeep is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Roger - go with what your Doc suggests for sure.
Thanks for your time. Where do I send the case of your fav beverage too?
Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old 7 October 2019, 09:32
Polypro's Avatar
Polypro Polypro is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: A Noisy Bar In Avalon
Posts: 14,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Jeep View Post
Thanks for your time. Where do I send the case of your fav beverage too?
Ha! I did nothing Donate to SOCNET, GOA, or FPC instead
__________________
RUMINT: Late October - The President is making it known, that his administration does not favor Red Flag Laws. Cautiously optimistic...
Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old 7 October 2019, 17:18
MixedLoad's Avatar
MixedLoad MixedLoad is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NORCAL
Posts: 9,009
It's been about a month for me back on TRT. Some interesting changes happening. Energy-levels are good, I'm crushing my workouts, mental clarity is there again.

One thing that I have noticed is that I've put on another 10#s. Is everyone else experiencing a weight gain? My guess is water retention.
__________________
ďSuaviter in modo, fortiter in re"

"Operator much like rock and roll, is dead." - ClearedHot
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old 7 October 2019, 18:23
Xenonburnout's Avatar
Xenonburnout Xenonburnout is offline
Isiah 52:13-53:12
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
It's been about a month for me back on TRT. Some interesting changes happening. Energy-levels are good, I'm crushing my workouts, mental clarity is there again.

One thing that I have noticed is that I've put on another 10#s. Is everyone else experiencing a weight gain? My guess is water retention.
I gained initially as well. About 10lbs. I was supplementing creatine at the time. I know it increases cell volume thus holding water. Also depending on your workouts muscle mass gain will be a factor as well. SB mentioned that for me earlier in this thread. As others have mentioned here. Measure inches lost around the gut wheel vs being weight number focused. Feels great doesn’t it. Salute out to Poly and others again from me.
__________________
"There are thousands hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."-Henry David Thoreau

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

ďA little science estranges one from God. A lot of science brings one back.Ē -Francis Bacon
Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old 7 October 2019, 19:24
AZ5326's Avatar
AZ5326 AZ5326 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,938
Got seven pellets under my skin a few days ago. Big bruise and still sore at the injection site. Probably doesn't help that it's right where I carry my handcuffs. Lol! I'm hoping it'll start kicking in soon.
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old 8 October 2019, 13:53
Polypro's Avatar
Polypro Polypro is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: A Noisy Bar In Avalon
Posts: 14,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
It's been about a month for me back on TRT. Some interesting changes happening. Energy-levels are good, I'm crushing my workouts, mental clarity is there again.

One thing that I have noticed is that I've put on another 10#s. Is everyone else experiencing a weight gain? My guess is water retention.
TRT doses don't add the crazy mass that 2 grams a week does, but High Normal T has been shown in studies to increase your bodies' muscle "set point", or "walking around weight". A month is a little quick, but after a year, you will probably be 10-15lbs heavier with no increase in body fat. *Any* added muscle tissue, brings Glycogen with it - which is Carbs and Water.

Keep tracking it. Water fluctuates like crazy, especially after a good salty meal.
__________________
RUMINT: Late October - The President is making it known, that his administration does not favor Red Flag Laws. Cautiously optimistic...
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old 8 October 2019, 13:58
Polypro's Avatar
Polypro Polypro is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: A Noisy Bar In Avalon
Posts: 14,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Got seven pellets under my skin a few days ago. Big bruise and still sore at the injection site. Probably doesn't help that it's right where I carry my handcuffs. Lol! I'm hoping it'll start kicking in soon.
Once you get dialed in (high normal T range with good a E2 level), the order in which you should see improvement are: Sleep first (dependent on daily stress levels obviously - T can't fix *everything*) - then Energy/Not Grouchy - then Libido - Finally Gym Performance/Recovery.
__________________
RUMINT: Late October - The President is making it known, that his administration does not favor Red Flag Laws. Cautiously optimistic...
Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old 8 October 2019, 15:50
AZ5326's Avatar
AZ5326 AZ5326 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Once you get dialed in (high normal T range with good a E2 level), the order in which you should see improvement are: Sleep first (dependent on daily stress levels obviously - T can't fix *everything*) - then Energy/Not Grouchy - then Libido - Finally Gym Performance/Recovery.
Thanks for the response. That's good to hear.
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old 8 October 2019, 21:24
Polypro's Avatar
Polypro Polypro is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: A Noisy Bar In Avalon
Posts: 14,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Thanks for the response. That's good to hear.
Two OTC things to look at are Pregnenelone and DHEA. Preg is the Master Hormone, all hormones are made from it. DHEA declines as we age. 50-100mg/day Preg, 25-50mg/day DHEA, based on blood work. Life Extension DHEA Under Tongue Tablets work well - verified by blood work. LEF makes 50 and 100mg Preg - that you want as an oral capsule, as first pass liver metabolism is where the magic happens.
__________________
RUMINT: Late October - The President is making it known, that his administration does not favor Red Flag Laws. Cautiously optimistic...
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old 10 October 2019, 12:40
Global Med's Avatar
Global Med Global Med is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: West
Posts: 417
A SEAL buddy of mine turned me on to this organization. He is a patient there and says his TRT treatment is free (non-profit organization) and they know what they are doing more importantly. If you are a SOF veteran check out https://warriorhealthfoundation dot org/
__________________
Eschew Obfuscation

Last edited by Global Med; 10 October 2019 at 12:51.
Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old 3 November 2019, 20:01
AZ5326's Avatar
AZ5326 AZ5326 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Two OTC things to look at are Pregnenelone and DHEA. Preg is the Master Hormone, all hormones are made from it. DHEA declines as we age. 50-100mg/day Preg, 25-50mg/day DHEA, based on blood work. Life Extension DHEA Under Tongue Tablets work well - verified by blood work. LEF makes 50 and 100mg Preg - that you want as an oral capsule, as first pass liver metabolism is where the magic happens.
Ok, finally got around to ordering both of those and starting to take them.
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old 4 November 2019, 08:59
Polypro's Avatar
Polypro Polypro is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: A Noisy Bar In Avalon
Posts: 14,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Ok, finally got around to ordering both of those and starting to take them.

Nice. The DHEA you can test for pretty cheap - your Doc may even require it on his panels? Preg is expensive to test for - they have to use *Gas* Chromatography Tandem Mass Spec - it's expensive as hell. So Preg is more of a multi-vitamin type thing, just take it. Both of my Docs said take it, but they never required bloods for it. It converts to Allopregnenelone in the Liver, which has a calming effect - I take mine in the evening.
__________________
RUMINT: Late October - The President is making it known, that his administration does not favor Red Flag Laws. Cautiously optimistic...
Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old 5 November 2019, 08:55
meatpaws meatpaws is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 163
Hey AZ, I’ll be interested in the results of how you’re feeling on DHEA and Preg, I’m looking into ordering it also.
Reply With Quote
  #240  
Old 5 November 2019, 10:58
Polypro's Avatar
Polypro Polypro is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: A Noisy Bar In Avalon
Posts: 14,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatpaws View Post
Hey AZ, Iíll be interested in the results of how youíre feeling on DHEA and Preg, Iím looking into ordering it also.
It's not really something you're going to acutely go "holy crap, this is awesome!" You're just back filling pathways that decline naturally with age. They're OTC supplements (DHEA is made from Wild Yams IIRC) - if they had "Drug Like Effects", the FDA would regulate them.
__________________
RUMINT: Late October - The President is making it known, that his administration does not favor Red Flag Laws. Cautiously optimistic...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 23:23.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
© SOCNET 1996-2018