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Old 7 April 2010, 12:32
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AT-802

http://www.802u.com/

Air Tractor is an American Company. Does the US use this? It looks like something you might see flying over Bolivia. The web site says its used by the US State Department.
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Last edited by Flying Pig; 7 April 2010 at 12:36.
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Old 7 April 2010, 12:59
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The US does use it, for many purposes....
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Old 7 April 2010, 13:50
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A good friend of mine was involved in the purchase of those AC.
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Old 7 April 2010, 14:58
FLYBOYJ FLYBOYJ is offline
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A friend of mine flew one for a while. He clipped power lines while spraying somewhere along the US/ Canadian border. Tore off part of the vertical stabilizer and rudder. He didn't know it until he landed.

Get some tail wheel time!
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Old 7 April 2010, 17:20
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It is strangely attractive....

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Old 7 April 2010, 17:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ View Post
A friend of mine flew one for a while. He clipped power lines while spraying somewhere along the US/ Canadian border. Tore off part of the vertical stabilizer and rudder. He didn't know it until he landed.

Get some tail wheel time!
Yeah, I know the civilian version of the air tractor is used widely. They are like flies in Central CA. But thought the claim that it was used by the US State Dept. was interesting. According to the web site, they are using the armed verion. NIIICE! I want that job!
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Old 7 April 2010, 18:18
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Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ View Post
Get some tail wheel time!
I second that. Expect to eat the cost of at least your first 50 or so hours of tailwheel time out of your own pocket. I did most of my primary training on the C140A shortly after high school, and racked up the remainder of that over the following years doing aerobatics on the Citabria, Super Decathlon and Pitts S2B — on the up side (financially), the J3/PA18 Cub is actually much more of an aeronautical workout in normal flight as well as being less expensive.

By the 50-hours-tailwheel mark, one or more of the glider clubs in/near your AO might talk to you about towing for them and building more tailwheel time that way.

Most ag operators flying Air Tractor or TurboThrush aircraft will tell you that you're uninsurable on those with less than 500 hours of tailwheel.

Last edited by WS-G; 7 April 2010 at 18:23.
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Old 7 April 2010, 18:33
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I saw that somewhere else. It wasn't in the AF CAS thread, was it?

8,000 lbs and on station for 10 hrs at a low cost sounds pretty appealing.



With a retractable sensors package...
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  #9  
Old 7 April 2010, 21:51
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21st Century Skyraider!
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  #10  
Old 8 April 2010, 01:53
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They are used in a CN operation in Colombia. The cockpit area is armored with limited armor around the engine compartment. They used the Bronco for a while, but I think they are all de-commissioned now. Cost ratio kills a twin for negligible return in this case. They are looking at a COIN version of this aircraft as well. All public info.
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Old 10 April 2010, 14:55
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UAE military has 12-16 of them, or on order.

A very crash survivable aircraft since it has a big roll cage inside. However, the guys I know who fly it say it is a POS "Like a Yugo with a Covette Engine".

Last edited by BKK; 10 April 2010 at 14:59.
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Old 24 August 2016, 14:58
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Originally Posted by BKK View Post
UAE military has 12-16 of them, or on order.

A very crash survivable aircraft since it has a big roll cage inside. However, the guys I know who fly it say it is a POS "Like a Yugo with a Covette Engine".
The people who lived across the street from us had a Cessna Agriculture aircraft dealership. All of them flew (four sons) and all had been in crashes and survived (you rarely meet an ag pilot with any years on who hasn't crashed a couple of times). I remember being told that those planes are rated for cockpit integrity and pilot survival to seven g's in a crash. I've seen a few crashed planes where the only thing left was the cockpit.
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Old 10 September 2016, 19:18
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He probably didn't like it because it didn't have a jet strapped to it. Personally, if it can loiter over the battlefield and come when I call it, I like it.
The USAF would be compelled to create an additional pipeline in the Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training (SUPT) program. Taking a guy off the T-38/AT-38 who has only minimal light aircraft experience and has most likely never piloted a taildragger before isn't the ideal way to train for a machine such as this one. Some air forces in other parts of the globe (e.g.: South Africa) actually do have a separate track in their own training system for guys destined for light aircraft assignments. Back in the Big One, the US Army Air Forces maintained a separate rating for those who were to fly such missions: Liaison Pilot. Reviving that rating today would just make too much sense.


Yet they can create an all-new "aeronautical rating" for drone operators ("Oh! Sorry! 'RPA Pilots'!! )


Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
The people who lived across the street from us had a Cessna Agriculture aircraft dealership....
The A188 AgWagon is built like a rock and is one fun machine to fly. Spray kits are also available to adapt the 185 for aerial application. One doesn't see many of these used for commercial spraying these days, with the exception of smaller but well-heeled farmers who choose to treat their own crop.

Last edited by WS-G; 10 September 2016 at 19:35.
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  #14  
Old 10 April 2010, 16:01
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Looks kind of like a turbo propped, shortened IL-2.
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  #15  
Old 12 August 2016, 15:00
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Check out the Iomax Archangel. Based on the Thrush S2R-660. Air Tractor didn't want to make any airframe modifications on the production line so Iomax went to the Thrush. The two aircraft are designed by the same guy so you gotta look careful to be sure which one you are looking at. Very interesting aircraft and popular in UAE with lots of laser PGM. They don't put on a gun on it and discourage anyone from doing so. They want it to operate above MANPADS and small arms. Currently seeing combat in Yemen with UAE launching from air fields just outside that country.

http://www.iomax.net/archangel/
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  #16  
Old 12 August 2016, 17:06
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Are these at all similar to those planes Erik Prince was reported to be hawking? https://fightersweep.com/5228/inside...e-erik-prince/
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Old 12 August 2016, 21:14
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One hell of a way to modify a crop duster, that's for sure.

The UAEAF sold at least a half dozen on their AT-802U's to the Jordanians a three years ago - not sure if the UAE even fly them anymore or got something else more to their liking.

AFSOC is helping out with getting the most out of the Air Tractors. With the Israelis selling sixteen of their modernized AH-1F's to the RJAF and the AT-802, I imagine the Daeshbags are being pulverized nicely by those two platforms.

(Budget cuts and what is seen as a more serious AD threat over Lebanon and Gaza from modern MANPADS made the IAF decide to phase-out their Cobras, and went all Apache attack helo fleet.)

http://www.janes.com/article/59773/a...p-capabilities
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  #18  
Old 13 August 2016, 14:59
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I have been talking about these for years.. For the cost and maintenance of this type of plane, in semi-permissive environments (which is the "argument" against...) you could flood an area with them, bomb trucks everywhere. Persistent aviation fires at low cost..
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Old 13 August 2016, 15:22
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Having worked with 802s in a "semi-permissive" environment, my problem with them for this role has always been how easy they are to shoot. I've mentioned before that they would routinely get the shit shot out of them, as in double digits of holes, and that was from guys that generally only had up to about .50 cal for armament. Big and slow, not a good combo against dudes with SA-7s or even RPGs down low. They carry a lot of shit though. If they had any kind of escape system, I would be more supportive.
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Old 17 August 2016, 15:15
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AF no fan

About two weeks ago I was talking with an AF colonel who works at Pentagon for the Chief of Staff. He was ardently opposed to the aircraft and the lack of an ejection seat was just one of its failures. From what I've been told, the reason the Archangel doesn't have one is because 'customers' haven't requested it. And if you've seen the aircraft without panels, you'll see what a robust cage they've built around the aircraft. Still, I am told a seat could be added but the cost would be in terms or fuel or ordinance due to the weight of the seats. Even with a seat, this Colonel didn't like the aircraft. He cited the aircraft's lack of a gun, its long nose, speed and one issue I didn't quite understand: center of gravity issues with fuel in the old hopper. If someone can explain that to me, I'd appreciate it.

I too see the Archangel as a mini bomb truck with a great capability for FAC due to its persistence over the battlefield even when it goes Wenchester.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkdrver View Post
Having worked with 802s in a "semi-permissive" environment, my problem with them for this role has always been how easy they are to shoot. I've mentioned before that they would routinely get the shit shot out of them, as in double digits of holes, and that was from guys that generally only had up to about .50 cal for armament. Big and slow, not a good combo against dudes with SA-7s or even RPGs down low. They carry a lot of shit though. If they had any kind of escape system, I would be more supportive.
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