Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > Areas of Expertise > Medical

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24 September 2016, 16:42
Steve40th Steve40th is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Posts: 438
CPR help.

My wife just went through a course . She was told 15 compressions, 2 breathes at a rate of 80 to 100 per minute.
I was trained a while back at 50 compressions 2 breathes.
Is there any preferred, better method to CPR?
In 2008, when I was last trained by USN, a fellow Sailor actually saved someone at a shopping center in AIEA, using 50/2 method.
But, If there is better information, please let me know.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24 September 2016, 17:15
Chris-Harper's Avatar
Chris-Harper Chris-Harper is offline
Un-confirmed User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Cajun Country
Posts: 1,249
I was always trained...

1 man CPR 15/2
2 man CPR 5/1
__________________
Looking for that red cup of feel right - steve
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24 September 2016, 18:16
Just Call Me Doc Just Call Me Doc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34
The ratio has changed several times over the years. The current ratio recommended by the American Heart Association for health care providers is actually 30 compressions with 2 breathes. For the lay person they recommend ONLY chest compressions at a rate of at least 100 per minute (too many people were avoiding CPR because they didn't want to give mouth-to-mouth to strangers).

Bottom line is that the most important thing is for a bystander to initiate hard and fast chest compressions as soon as cardiac arrest is identified (or even highly suspected). Compressions should be at least 100 times per minute (i.e. to the beat of "Staying Alive") and at least two inches in depth. EMS should also be notified and an AED located (if available) as soon as possible. While the ratio of compressions to breathes may have some small effect on survival, the most important thing is to get the compression going so that the blood is flowing.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24 September 2016, 18:21
Atrax's Avatar
Atrax Atrax is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: CONUS
Posts: 331
For some reason the title of the thread left me picturing the poster standing over some unconscious guy at at Arby's, thinking "Maybe SOCNET'll know how to do CPR..."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24 September 2016, 18:33
Steve40th Steve40th is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Posts: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrax View Post
For some reason the title of the thread left me picturing the poster standing over some unconscious guy at at Arby's, thinking "Maybe SOCNET'll know how to do CPR..."
Chick Fila actually. J/K
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24 September 2016, 20:53
Gray Rhyno's Avatar
Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NoVa
Posts: 8,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Call Me Doc View Post
Bottom line is that the most important thing is for a bystander to initiate hard and fast chest compressions as soon as cardiac arrest is identified (or even highly suspected). Compressions should be at least 100 times per minute (i.e. to the beat of "Staying Alive") and at least two inches in depth. EMS should also be notified and an AED located (if available) as soon as possible. While the ratio of compressions to breathes may have some small effect on survival, the most important thing is to get the compression going so that the blood is flowing.
I thought it was Happy Birthday...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrax View Post
For some reason the title of the thread left me picturing the poster standing over some unconscious guy at at Arby's, thinking "Maybe SOCNET'll know how to do CPR..."
LOL. I bet that is the first thought to cross some posters mind in most any situation. I know "holy crap, wait till the guys on SOCNET hear this" has passed through my mind many times.
__________________
"The most HSLD stuff ever taught was the basics. So-called 'advanced training' is often no more than the very fluid and expert application of those basic skills." - SOTB
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24 September 2016, 21:00
Gumby2/6's Avatar
Gumby2/6 Gumby2/6 is offline
Calculating Infinity...
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,267
Damn, I thought it was "Another One Bites The Dust".
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25 September 2016, 02:21
Malpractice's Avatar
Malpractice Malpractice is offline
Casual Observer
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NM
Posts: 200
Another One bites the dust has the same beat rate as Staying alive, just more problematic to explain while using on scene.....
__________________
"It's not a man purse, it's called a satchel. Indiana Jones wears one."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 25 September 2016, 03:48
Gumby2/6's Avatar
Gumby2/6 Gumby2/6 is offline
Calculating Infinity...
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malpractice View Post
Another One bites the dust has the same beat rate as Staying alive, just more problematic to explain while using on scene.....
I know
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 25 September 2016, 16:57
O_Pos's Avatar
O_Pos O_Pos is offline
NKDA
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CONUS
Posts: 1,206
Steve, everything said above (regarding 30:2 @ 100 bpm) is accurate and to the point.

If you want/need it from the horses-mouth, see below screenshots (I compiled from 2015 AHA Guidelines).

Keep in mind the info that we are discussing here is for adults; although for the lone rescuer, not much really changes for pediatrics.

Pediatrics does however begin to get a little complicated for the healthcare provider with more than 1 person present (this is where your wife may have heard the 15:2 ratio mentioned, although the rate is 100-120).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AHA BLS Sequence.jpg (34.1 KB, 265 views)
File Type: jpg Untrained Lay Rescuer.jpg (27.8 KB, 261 views)
File Type: jpg Trained Lay Rescuer.jpg (20.0 KB, 263 views)
File Type: jpg Heathcare Provider.jpg (42.8 KB, 263 views)
__________________
Support the Special Operations Medical Association Scholarship Fund
http://www.specialoperationsmedicine.org/Pages/Scholarship-Fund.aspx
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 25 September 2016, 18:17
Steve40th Steve40th is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Posts: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by O_Pos View Post
Steve, everything said above (regarding 30:2 @ 100 bpm) is accurate and to the point.

If you want/need it from the horses-mouth, see below screenshots (I compiled from 2015 AHA Guidelines).

Keep in mind the info that we are discussing here is for adults; although for the lone rescuer, not much really changes for pediatrics.

Pediatrics does however begin to get a little complicated for the healthcare provider with more than 1 person present (this is where your wife may have heard the 15:2 ratio mentioned, although the rate is 100-120).
Thanks, appreciate it very much
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 26 September 2016, 20:45
1RiserSlip's Avatar
1RiserSlip 1RiserSlip is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Fly over country
Posts: 2,057
Good to know stuff. I was ARC & AHA certified in 02 and there we're small differences between the 2 then. I let my certification go but seen a change with more emphasis on compressions. Glad you posted.
__________________
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them.

John Wayne as J.B. Books in the Shootist
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27 September 2016, 12:09
bm2bob's Avatar
bm2bob bm2bob is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: the Road to Happy Destiny
Posts: 1,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Call Me Doc View Post
The ratio has changed several times over the years. The current ratio recommended by the American Heart Association for health care providers is actually 30 compressions with 2 breathes. For the lay person they recommend ONLY chest compressions at a rate of at least 100 per minute (too many people were avoiding CPR because they didn't want to give mouth-to-mouth to strangers).

Bottom line is that the most important thing is for a bystander to initiate hard and fast chest compressions as soon as cardiac arrest is identified (or even highly suspected). Compressions should be at least 100 times per minute (i.e. to the beat of "Staying Alive") and at least two inches in depth. EMS should also be notified and an AED located (if available) as soon as possible. While the ratio of compressions to breathes may have some small effect on survival, the most important thing is to get the compression going so that the blood is flowing.
I teach to use "Another One Bites the Dust" YMMV
__________________
...the sea's in my veins...my tradition remains..."
Mother Mother Ocean, I have heard your call..."

Fair Winds and Following Seas SOTB & Cass
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27 September 2016, 22:03
Crna's Avatar
Crna Crna is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Alamogordo, NM
Posts: 152
JCM Doc addressed the first problem... They changed the protocol because people were afraid to give mouth to mouth and just doing nothing. So AHA said ok just press on the chest 100 times/min. The most recent is 100-120 times/min. Really 120 is 2x per second... Read: press as hard and fast as you can. You will get tired soon.

The second problem, we (healthcare workers) were stopping to check a pulse or to check a rhythm change or to give breaths or lost count of cycles etc etc. and there was very little actual chest pressing going on. So they said, quit doing all that other shit we used to teach and press on the freaking chest!!
Granted, they said it more diplomatically than I.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 28 September 2016, 01:11
wook wook is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: MA
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crna View Post
JCM Doc addressed the first problem... They changed the protocol because people were afraid to give mouth to mouth and just doing nothing. So AHA said ok just press on the chest 100 times/min. The most recent is 100-120 times/min. Really 120 is 2x per second... Read: press as hard and fast as you can. You will get tired soon.

The second problem, we (healthcare workers) were stopping to check a pulse or to check a rhythm change or to give breaths or lost count of cycles etc etc. and there was very little actual chest pressing going on. So they said, quit doing all that other shit we used to teach and press on the freaking chest!!
Granted, they said it more diplomatically than I.
Several articles have discussed the rates of compression. The last literature I saw showed increased mortality when less than 100 and greater than 120 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25565457)(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22623717).

However. a recent article epublished less than 6 days ago discusses 120-140 as being optimal (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27666168).

Interesting stuff.


Thanks.


Wook
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 28 September 2016, 02:12
justamedic justamedic is offline
Very Deplorable
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: LV
Posts: 899
Interesting stuff indeed... Considering you need enough time of diastole to flood the coronary arteries. I'd be interested in seeing how long they ran that study and how many patients they looked at. I think too fast is better than too slow (although just right is just right), and minimal interruptions obviously show the best patient outcomes.
__________________
"Double tap is a myth. Shoot until the threat changes shape or catches fire. Only then will your enemy know true peace." - Dali Lama
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 28 September 2016, 06:41
Soutpiel's Avatar
Soutpiel Soutpiel is offline
Orbi tertio spumae
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cape Town/Mozambique/Other
Posts: 293
I did my first first-aid training circa around 1970 when I was a kid in Cubs (mini Scouts. I don't think you have Cubs in the US), and a host of certs and refreshers over my lifetime, and at every single one they told me a newer, better, shinier way to do it. I can't keep up any more and my brain is now full.

100 a minute was my last indoctrination

In real scenarios I've just gone on the basis of aiming for a bit faster than one per second which probably gets me in the 100 ball-park
__________________
"A healthy dose of well managed paranoia can be your friend"
"The meek shall inherit f#ckall"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 1 October 2016, 00:13
Old_Starlight's Avatar
Old_Starlight Old_Starlight is offline
Awaiting the Terrologist?
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 2,623
30:2 @100bpm is the standard in Australia with the caveat that after the first 2 "rescue breaths", the ":2" part is optional for the reasons stated above.

So basically, bounce off their chest and keep doing it until help arrives.

Was there not some studies across the US that demonstrated less mortality with compression alone than with compression's interrupted by breaths?

Cheers,
__________________
AJ sends.


On the 11th Hour of the 11th Day of the 11th Month, we will remember them.

Lest We Forget.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 1 October 2016, 00:20
Expatmedic's Avatar
Expatmedic Expatmedic is offline
Anesthetized User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Starlight View Post
30:2 @100bpm is the standard in Australia with the caveat that after the first 2 "rescue breaths", the ":2" part is optional for the reasons stated above.

So basically, bounce off their chest and keep doing it until help arrives.

Was there not some studies across the US that demonstrated less mortality with compression alone than with compression's interrupted by breaths?

Cheers,
Like you know.
__________________
We call this piece the Fecalator. One look at it and the target shits him or herself. Try it on.

Well, it's a lot more compact than the flaming sword, but it's not nearly as impressive. Just doesn't have that Wrath-of-the-Almighty edge to it. I mean, come on, how am I supposed to strike fear into the hearts of the wicked with this thing?

Support SOCNET.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 1 October 2016, 08:00
Five-O's Avatar
Five-O Five-O is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 943
While doing CPR I have a dismal record.... currently I'm 0-13 with zero saves. The last rookie I trained did however resuscitate a 16 year old who OD'd using heroin. That said... last training cert through the Red Cross was 30:2 compressions/rescue breaths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmb1tqYqyII

Last edited by Five-O; 1 October 2016 at 08:19.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:37.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET