SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > U.S. Army Special Operations > Special Forces

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 10 April 2007, 07:50
Tracy's Avatar
Tracy Tracy is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: West
Posts: 11,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack78
...I would also like to add, that in my prior post, I wasn't knocking the men who had to go in that school and do the job. They suffered greatly and most likely still do. We, here in the states, have to come up with a plan. It has to be made known, that if something like this happens here, it won't be bloodless. My .02 and worth just that.
Poorly phrased on my part. I've met our Russian counter-parts and they're good Soldiers; and they had an extremely tough mission. You're right, it won't be bloodless and the choices that our Police will face here will be either a bloodbath or an abattoir. Because we live in the USA, the rescuers will face a jury trial afterwards to question everything they did. Trial by Fire, then a Trial by Jury.

Is it worth $300, or any amount, to hear how hard it was? Nope.
  #82  
Old 10 April 2007, 08:09
Blackjack78's Avatar
Blackjack78 Blackjack78 is offline
RIP SOTB, CASS
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 2,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy
Poorly phrased on my part. I've met our Russian counter-parts and they're good Soldiers; and they had an extremely tough mission. You're right, it won't be bloodless and the choices that our Police will face here will be either a bloodbath or an abattoir. Because we live in the USA, the rescuers will face a jury trial afterwards to question everything they did. Trial by Fire, then a Trial by Jury.

Is it worth $300, or any amount, to hear how hard it was? Nope.
I truly feel for the smaller depts here in the states. Our ESU, from my biased eyes ,are the best at what they do. They have been around since the 20's and have hundreds of members. We have a very large dept. If a takeover took place, we have the manpower to ride to the sounds of the guns. The smaller agencies, well, from the get go, they are behind the curve. I'm not just speaking of a Terror incident but the more probable criminal incident. I don't envy my brothers/sisters in the smaller a/o's.
  #83  
Old 10 April 2007, 15:45
Fox33C1's Avatar
Fox33C1 Fox33C1 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYFB
Posts: 863
Is there anyone available (outside of DOD) out there who actually knows their ass from a hole in the ground on this subject. Even though I'm only NG SF I feel more qualified to discuss this than him. From what I heard about the qualitiy of the presentation everyone here is more qualified to discuss this event.

I find that a good number of people in a great number of civilian departments know there is a problem and are grasping in the dark on coming up with plans to deal with what is seem as a matter of time (mall, concert, school bombings)

But you get guys like this who's "qualifications" are hard to define, thier tactical experience non-existent, yet draw in large crowds and can say whatever they want, right or wrong.

Then the policy makers, who just might think this guy is shit hot, sit there and ingest his opinions and the define procedures that will be used when the shit hits the fan.

I feel for the chief of whatever department "shoots a kid to save kids" when the ACLU gets ahold of them.

Also how do I get rid of my "probationary status"....who needs to see my CIB, Q orders, dd214 or what ever.

If I'm gonna shoot my mouth off like a jackass I want to be a fully verified jackass. Would not want to let the reputation of jackasses the world over be tarnished by my actions
  #84  
Old 10 April 2007, 15:49
Fox33C1's Avatar
Fox33C1 Fox33C1 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYFB
Posts: 863
Oh I forgot

Mr. Giduck If you come here and fully verify your qualifications and pass SOCNET muster

I will apologize for dragging your name though this whole event
  #85  
Old 19 April 2007, 15:34
Silverbullet's Avatar
Silverbullet Silverbullet is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bunker
Posts: 15,143
Someone needs to tell Mr Hysterical what libel is vice what opinions are. Also there is no such thing as "actionable" libel. What next inactionable libel?

As far as being not allowed to register, maybe if you and your friends stopped registering like 8 yr old kids and didn't use the same IP address each time you wouldn't have the problem. It isn't fooling us.

Regarding your last comment about how much time someone spends on the internet vs actually still serving our country....good joke. Obviously you have zero idea who are members here and what they do. If it makes you feel better to attempt to marginalize his critics in an effort to bolster him, more power to you. It won't fly but the rationalization may help your blood pressure.

Finally, you may have all the experience you claim but it doesn't transfer to your friend just because you get all emotional and expect us to buy in to it on your say so.
  #86  
Old 19 April 2007, 17:38
GRIFFIN GRIFFIN is offline
Quiet Professional
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 171
I knew I was not going crazy when I saw that post.
I refrained from posting on this thread because I do not know anything about this guy. However, after reading that new post that was submitted by his “friend” let me just say this.

I do not "hide" behind a fictitious name buddy, what you see is what you get, and if you think you can threaten me by a veiled threat because someone is calling out your buddy then FUCK YOU
I normally have loads of respect for guys with pedigrees like the one that was listed by the poster, but if you are saying that because I post on this board I am not out there fighting the good fight for our country then
DOUBLE FUCK YOU... look in the mirror

If you did not catch archangels post before it was taken down please disregard my rant

My name is Ron Griffin and I stand behind this message… sue me if you want

Last edited by GRIFFIN; 20 April 2007 at 00:40.
  #87  
Old 19 April 2007, 20:15
Tracy's Avatar
Tracy Tracy is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: West
Posts: 11,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIFFIN
...If you did not catch the post before it was taken down please disregard my rant...
Rokay! Scoooby Dooby Doo!

So how bad was that rant?
  #88  
Old 20 April 2007, 00:39
GRIFFIN GRIFFIN is offline
Quiet Professional
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy
Rokay! Scoooby Dooby Doo!

So how bad was that rant?
There was a post earlier today that the good folks at archangel posted in this thread (a good portion of which was a load of crap). The Mods here took it down pretty quick. The stuff they wrote got me kind of pissed so I wrote the above post. I guess it looks kind of funny now that archangels cheap shot post has been taken down.

Sorry for the mix up, hope this helps explain it
  #89  
Old 20 April 2007, 07:23
Tracy's Avatar
Tracy Tracy is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: West
Posts: 11,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIFFIN
...Sorry for the mix up, hope this helps explain it.
Roger that.
  #90  
Old 20 April 2007, 08:05
Tracy's Avatar
Tracy Tracy is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: West
Posts: 11,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by klrb929
...I find that a good number of people in a great number of civilian departments know there is a problem and are grasping in the dark on coming up with plans to deal with what is seem as a matter of time (mall, concert, school bombings)...
When I was doing the guest speaker circuit on critical infrastructure protection, some of the key points I made with police and fire personnel are:

--Any terrorism TTP has to be fully integrated into the their regular operations. I don't have the latest UCR from DoJ, but the average size of a police agency is 37 sworn officers. The implication here is that there won't be a 'special' unit and regular (patrol) officers are going to bear the brunt.

--Terrorists study a range of targets and attack the weakest one(s).

--We as a country need to better empower average citizens to report suspicious behavior and disrupt an attack when it happens. There's rather disturbing reports coming from Virginia Tech that Mr. Cho calmly executed some students in a line. WTF?

--80-85% of all terrorist incidents are bombings. If you're a police chief, with no prior intelligence on terrorist preferences in your AOR, where would you emphasize your antiterrorism and counterrorism budget?

--There's two ways to keep terrorists and psychos away from us: Build a wall and pass silly unenforceable legislation. Ask the Chinese about the Wall and ask the Virginia Legislature about their "No Guns on Campus" bill. Another method is to develop the intelligence necessary right down to the local level and find these ding-a-lings before they have a chance to strike.

--Terrorists rely on speed, surprise and violence of action. Patrol officers are going to be at the front; most likely reacting to an incident vice a pre-emptive attack. If cops are going stop or, more likey, mitigate the effects of an incident, they'll have to move faster, immediately attack instead of defend, pick their targets and use a higher level of force than what the terrorists present.

How should the training be shaped?
Who should receive it?
What should the immediate action drills look like?
What's the acceptable casualty rate?
What's cheaper: counterrorism training or intelligence analysis?

There's even more questions, but I think I made my point.

Empower the Citizens.
Train, equip and exercise Patrol Officers to a higher standard.
Develop a law enforcement intelligence carreer field. Cops and spooks are not interchangeable; nor are they mutually exclusive.


That'll be $202.33, pay at the window...

Last edited by Tracy; 20 April 2007 at 08:17.
  #91  
Old 20 April 2007, 09:50
hardknocks hardknocks is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 210
I agree with you. In our version of response to active shooters, officers were trained to move to the sound of the gunfire/threat, ignore wounded(as cold as that sounds, the wounded would be tended to follow up teams) and neutralize the threat.

Citizens need to learn to stop being victims and strke back by any means necessary at the threat. Generally the victims in mass shootings were cornered and cowering

Every sworn officer should know how to respond to an active shooter, regardless of their assigment(detective/SRO, traffic).

One less casualty.
__________________
Asked why it was dishonorable to return without a shield and not without a helmet, the Spartan king, Demaratos (510 - 491) is said to have replied: "Because the latter they put on for their own protection, but the shield for the common good of all." (Plutarch, Mor.220
  #92  
Old 20 April 2007, 19:04
Tracy's Avatar
Tracy Tracy is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: West
Posts: 11,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardknocks
I agree with you. In our version of response to active shooters, officers were trained to move to the sound of the gunfire/threat, ignore wounded(as cold as that sounds, the wounded would be tended to follow up teams) and neutralize the threat.

Citizens need to learn to stop being victims and strke back by any means necessary at the threat. Generally the victims in mass shootings were cornered and cowering

Every sworn officer should know how to respond to an active shooter, regardless of their assigment(detective/SRO, traffic).

One less casualty.
The only item I'd change is active shooters, plural.

Hey, how's about basic ballistic trauma first aid for citizens? You get a two-fer out of it: People can help victims during that golden hour, and they understand what happens if it goes down and folks bleet like sheep...
  #93  
Old 20 April 2007, 20:43
hardknocks hardknocks is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 210
That would be a great idea if people actually could be convinced to undertsand the importance of it.

I heard on of the survivors did a self tourniquet on his leg. If that is true and bought him time, that would be a great starting point to open the general publics thought process to otherwise taboo areas(open wounds, compound fractures and such). They generally have no idea what to do with bleeders or at least from what I've encountered.

Good catch on the plural.
__________________
Asked why it was dishonorable to return without a shield and not without a helmet, the Spartan king, Demaratos (510 - 491) is said to have replied: "Because the latter they put on for their own protection, but the shield for the common good of all." (Plutarch, Mor.220
  #94  
Old 21 April 2007, 22:08
ccorgr175's Avatar
ccorgr175 ccorgr175 is offline
Verified SOF
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dinosaur National Monument
Posts: 1,229
Mr. CCO275,

This is a great site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks bro!!!!!!!!!!!

YBFAM,


2%

ps...I think we need to write some books...Call me.
  #95  
Old 10 June 2011, 15:29
jdogonroad's Avatar
jdogonroad jdogonroad is offline
Preparing to defend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SE US of A
Posts: 2,880
Well, badlands, I read your profile, and am wondering why you have a dog in this fight.
Quote, "
Credentials
Former Soldier with the U.S. Army in SF community."

WTF does that mean? I have also been in the SF community, wore the beret, but my word means "SHIT" in this forum. These are great guys, be careful where you tread.
__________________
What is best in life:"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
  #96  
Old 10 June 2011, 16:59
The Fat Guy's Avatar
The Fat Guy The Fat Guy is offline
The Sagacious One
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pushing string down the hall
Posts: 14,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogonroad View Post
Well, badlands, I read your profile, and am wondering why you have a dog in this fight.
Quote, "

Credentials
Former Soldier with the U.S. Army in SF community."
WTF does that mean? I have also been in the SF community, wore the beret, but my word means "SHIT" in this forum. These are great guys, be careful where you tread.
More importantly,

You need to post your introduction.
__________________
No one will take better care of us, than us: Suicide Hotline: 1-800-273-8255
  #97  
Old 10 June 2011, 17:06
Tracy's Avatar
Tracy Tracy is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: West
Posts: 11,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badlands View Post
...Do the research and you decide.
Uh, what just happened here?

You resurrected a thread from four years ago and claimed Mr. Giduck is stretching the truth somewhat.

We know that. Thanks for your input. Please post an introduction as directed.
  #98  
Old 4 February 2012, 21:58
Silverbullet's Avatar
Silverbullet Silverbullet is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bunker
Posts: 15,143
More info about John Giduck.

http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=107621
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:44.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET 1996-2018