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  #81  
Old 24 February 2018, 07:52
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We train continuously to move towards the threat. Immediately. Without hesitation. His moment of truth indeed came this day. Sadly, the academies are producing these sorts of officers. My former partner of 2 years was talking about a female recently who went into a home invasion in prog, and literally refused to draw her weapon and walked back to the car. Imagine snowflakes with badges and guns now ....
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  #82  
Old 24 February 2018, 08:13
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That coward shouldn't be getting a pension. He should have been fired on the spot for misconduct.
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  #83  
Old 24 February 2018, 08:56
Proeliator 37 Proeliator 37 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sado_1 View Post
We train continuously to move towards the threat. Immediately. Without hesitation. His moment of truth indeed came this day. Sadly, the academies are producing these sorts of officers. My former partner of 2 years was talking about a female recently who went into a home invasion in prog, and literally refused to draw her weapon and walked back to the car. Imagine snowflakes with badges and guns now ....
If coming home alive at the end of your shift is your number one goal, above all else, this sort of thing happens.
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  #84  
Old 24 February 2018, 10:22
meatpaws meatpaws is offline
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This on top of the Broward County deputy getting his ass slapped down a hallway while responding to a domestic violence call leads me to believe the citizens of Broward County need to demand a top to bottom revamp of the entire agency.

And as stated somewhere above, younger officer’s issues can more easily be pointed at as training deficiencies. When seasoned officers fail at such an epic level, training isn’t usually to blame. It’s an individual lack of care, balls and/or moral fortitude. Negligent retention may be blamed too.

Now that i know that more deputies were outside, there’s several less fucks I’ll give when I hear they’ve suck-started their guns.
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  #85  
Old 24 February 2018, 10:29
meatpaws meatpaws is offline
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Originally Posted by Proeliator 37 View Post
If coming home alive at the end of your shift is your number one goal, above all else, this sort of thing happens.
Agreed. I have a wife and a young boy to come home to. Would I be a better example to my son as gone while making a sacrifice or being present and living as a coward who hid while others were massacred?

I donít think Iím better than anyone else but I donít think itíd even be in my mind to turn away. I truly believe the same for 99.9% of the guys on this forum.
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  #86  
Old 24 February 2018, 10:40
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@MyBad - we should just ban murder and save ~16,000 Americans per year - ~8,000 of which are killed by *not firearms, much less rifles specifically*, but the other shit we should ban, like knives, rocks, bricks, pipes, and human hands.
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  #87  
Old 24 February 2018, 11:02
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@MyBad - we should just ban murder and save ~16,000 Americans per year - ~8,000 of which are killed by *not firearms, much less rifles specifically*, but the other shit we should ban, like knives, rocks, bricks, pipes, and human hands.
All we are saying is give peace a chance.

63,600 people died in 2016 from drug overdoses (that's ~174 every fucking day) and these asshats are complaining about ARs?

Get a new sheriff's department down there. Now.
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  #88  
Old 24 February 2018, 11:10
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Originally Posted by Proeliator 37 View Post
If coming home alive at the end of your shift is your number one goal, above all else, this sort of thing happens.
Absolutely agree! I've been thinking about that since this happened. I've read this idea about getting home alive on some LE forums so many times it seems as if it has become a credo. It sickens me.
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  #89  
Old 24 February 2018, 11:31
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Originally Posted by GPC View Post
That coward shouldn't be getting a pension. He should have been fired on the spot for misconduct.
X2.
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  #90  
Old 24 February 2018, 11:32
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Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
@MyBad - we should just ban murder and save ~16,000 Americans per year - ~8,000 of which are killed by *not firearms, much less rifles specifically*, but the other shit we should ban, like knives, rocks, bricks, pipes, and human hands.
I am all for making murder illegal. Writing my representatives this afternoon.
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  #91  
Old 24 February 2018, 11:33
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Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
Well, my advice to current LEOs about this is....

With the number of years this has been going on, every single officer out there has had time, much time, to consider what they would do under these circumstances, plan mentally, to take action... regardless of training.

The most important thing is to act. To reach down inside yourself, grab yourself by the nuts, and handle the problem. Take stock, and if you find yourself unwilling or unable to act, find another paycheck ASAP. Take yourself out of the profession because you are dangerous. To others and yourself. Failure to act is the worst thing, in my book, that you can do. If you are unwilling to man up, and engage when that is your whole fucking purpose in life, then get the fuck out of the job. You don't belong there, and your brothers don't want you there either.

After the Amish school shooting in PA, I had plenty of time to think about what I would do in this type of incident. There is no doubt in my mind what I would do. None. If you have doubts, get the fuck out of the job. Also, if you carry a firearm, you better damn well be mentally prepared to use it for the purpose Samuel Colt made the thing for... and no, it's not about stopping the threat. It's for fucking killing. Killing the threat. Make no bones about it. Drop that murderer like a bad habit. Be mentally prepared to pull that trigger. If you are not, GTFO the job.

I refused to work with a guy that had this exact problem. I almost lost my job because of him. (SP4 mafia related incident...) He froze when someone pointed a rifle at him. He was not mentally prepared to engage the threat. He pissed himself. People like that should not carry a firearm, or be trusted to react in such a situation. They either freeze, hide, or run. If you are one of those, in an LEO position, do everyone a favor and quit... before you get someone, or a lot of someones killed.
Good post Grog!
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  #92  
Old 24 February 2018, 11:35
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Stop.

Before we get the pitchforks and torches out and head over to former Deputy Peterson's house, take a breath.

Take a breath. You. Put down the pitchfork.

You do not know the whole story. You were not there. You do not know what was put out on the radio, or what directives were issued.

Here is what I know so far.

1) Sheriff Scott Israel has stated publicly that Peterson failed to go in, as seen on video (according to Israel).

2) It's been reported that responding Coral Springs officers saw BCSO deputies outside the school, appearing to be in defensive positions.

Sheriff Israel has shown himself to be a politician, not a lawman. I believe that he is at significant political and civil liability risk for his past actions and policies while Sheriff. He has been pointing fingers and assigning blame from the very start of this incident. Peterson is now a convenient target.

Before anyone starts posting "I'd have gone in, even if I'd been ordered not to." That's called Monday-morning quarterbacking. You have the benefit of hindsight, and the situational awareness that comes with it.

Now, the important part. If you have never been in a gunfight, I don't want to hear what you would have done. If you have never been in a gunfight, you need to slow your roll on judging and branding Peterson a coward.

For those of you who have been in a gunfight and still want to dogpile on Peterson, you should still slow your roll. You don't have all of the information or situational awareness.

For all the cops that want to post "We go directly to the threat and neutralize it." Whatever. That sounds badass. Is that what you did the last time you were in a gunfight?
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  #93  
Old 24 February 2018, 11:58
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Sheriff Israel has shown himself to be a politician, not a lawman.
So true! It should be no surprise to anyone that a person who runs for the office of Sheriff, and who relies on votes to get the job, is a politician.
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  #94  
Old 24 February 2018, 12:13
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So true! It should be no surprise to anyone that a person who runs for the office of Sheriff, and who relies on votes to get the job, is a politician.
While the job of "Sheriff" is an elected position, some Sheriffs remain lawmen and men of honor and integrity. Don't you watch Longmire?
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  #95  
Old 24 February 2018, 12:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Before we get the pitchforks and torches out and head over to former Deputy Peterson's house, take a breath.

Take a breath. You. Put down the pitchfork.

You do not know the whole story. You were not there. You do not know what was put out on the radio, or what directives were issued.

Here is what I know so far.

1) Sheriff Scott Israel has stated publicly that Peterson failed to go in, as seen on video (according to Israel).

2) It's been reported that responding Coral Springs officers saw BCSO deputies outside the school, appearing to be in defensive positions.

Sheriff Israel has shown himself to be a politician, not a lawman. I believe that he is at significant political and civil liability risk for his past actions and policies while Sheriff. He has been pointing fingers and assigning blame from the very start of this incident. Peterson is now a convenient target.

Before anyone starts posting "I'd have gone in, even if I'd been ordered not to." That's called Monday-morning quarterbacking. You have the benefit of hindsight, and the situational awareness that comes with it.

Now, the important part. If you have never been in a gunfight, I don't want to hear what you would have done. If you have never been in a gunfight, you need to slow your roll on judging and branding Peterson a coward.

For those of you who have been in a gunfight and still want to dogpile on Peterson, you should still slow your roll. You don't have all of the information or situational awareness.

For all the cops that want to post "We go directly to the threat and neutralize it." Whatever. That sounds badass. Is that what you did the last time you were in a gunfight?
I have been in a gunfight or two, and I had my pitchfork out.

Your post was the voice of reason.

Well said.
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  #96  
Old 24 February 2018, 12:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Before we get the pitchforks and torches out and head over to former Deputy Peterson's house, take a breath.

Take a breath. You. Put down the pitchfork.

You do not know the whole story. You were not there. You do not know what was put out on the radio, or what directives were issued.

Here is what I know so far.

1) Sheriff Scott Israel has stated publicly that Peterson failed to go in, as seen on video (according to Israel).

2) It's been reported that responding Coral Springs officers saw BCSO deputies outside the school, appearing to be in defensive positions.

Sheriff Israel has shown himself to be a politician, not a lawman. I believe that he is at significant political and civil liability risk for his past actions and policies while Sheriff. He has been pointing fingers and assigning blame from the very start of this incident. Peterson is now a convenient target.

Before anyone starts posting "I'd have gone in, even if I'd been ordered not to." That's called Monday-morning quarterbacking. You have the benefit of hindsight, and the situational awareness that comes with it.

Now, the important part. If you have never been in a gunfight, I don't want to hear what you would have done. If you have never been in a gunfight, you need to slow your roll on judging and branding Peterson a coward.

For those of you who have been in a gunfight and still want to dogpile on Peterson, you should still slow your roll. You don't have all of the information or situational awareness.

For all the cops that want to post "We go directly to the threat and neutralize it." Whatever. That sounds badass. Is that what you did the last time you were in a gunfight?
Totally agree.

Because Iíd hate for something to change the media talking points before people see the complete story about why the BCSO, BC-School District have a policy of tolerating criminal activity by students and doing nothing with them. To include failing to investigate threats made by someone with the Opportunity, Means and Intent to carry out their threat.

So many failures here!

Again ***must read*** https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html
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  #97  
Old 24 February 2018, 13:34
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
While the job of "Sheriff" is an elected position, some Sheriffs remain lawmen and men of honor and integrity. Don't you watch Longmire?
I agree Gavin, 100%. In fact I'd say MOST of them are men of honor and Israel is the absolute exception. Israel knew what was coming when he threw his deputy under the bus. The Deputy deserved it, just not from Israel, who was only attempting to lay down some cover before all the info came out.

It took me only reading the article describing the Dem/Lib-inspired practice of not arresting and punishing the douche-bags committing crimes, and the pic of him with HRC, to know he was weak.

I'd like to see the Deputy's statement of the his actions (or non-actions) during the incident.
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  #98  
Old 24 February 2018, 13:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
For all the cops that want to post "We go directly to the threat and neutralize it." Whatever. That sounds badass. Is that what you did the last time you were in a gunfight?
I agree with your entire post, well said. However I am still sketchy on the dude. But since I am one of the cops who posted to the above quote, I will answer. Yes that is absolutely what I and my team did, more than once. I canít speak for others but I was not, and am not, trying to chest thump and bloviate. I was merely speaking to my doubt of his refusal to go in being tied to a training issue.
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  #99  
Old 24 February 2018, 13:58
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Because those joke of a background checks that are conducted at Academy Sports & Outdoors/Cabelas have been proven to be ineffective. A revamp from ground up needs to be established. How many times have I taken unto custody a convicted felon who is in possession of a firearm and shows a receipt of the firearm he, himself purchased at Cabelas/ Academy the week prior?

Failing to see why its such an issue to wait a few days for a more effective background check...?



The day it becomes legal in your area, the issue can be addressed as far as purpose. But if you cannot handle your Alchohol, Temper or the ability to refrain from illegal narcotics (however the argument potency) why would you be trusted with firearms?
You mentioned in a prior post you think a DWI conviction should make you ineligible to own a firearm. Now you’re implying you have looked up numerous individuals who have receipts on them for weapons they “shouldn’t” own. Where do you work out of that this is common place? I find this very hard to believe. Especially being a cop in Philly, I don’t come across many people having receipts for something they shouldn’t have. Also DWI, really? You sound like a Hammer looking for Nails.
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Last edited by CombatMedic1981; 24 February 2018 at 13:59. Reason: Grammer
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  #100  
Old 24 February 2018, 14:11
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"The day it becomes legal in your area, the issue can be addressed as far as purpose. But if you cannot handle your Alchohol, Temper or the ability to refrain from illegal narcotics (however the argument potency) why would you be trusted with firearms?"

This sounds like the thinking of a LEO who never, ever, under any circumstance, gives only a warning.
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