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  #41  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:21
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Bravo_One_Three Bravo_One_Three is offline
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Re: quick to judge????

Quote:
Originally posted by jim_vedder
Hey man, just becasue someone says something that you might not agree with, you want to kick me out.....land of the free????
Bed_Wetter,

First off, you can stand on the street here and spout off whatever bullshit you want to, however you are not on the street, you are on SOCNET... essentially private property. And if you've paid any attention at all to the overall forum (outside of the debating forum) you will find that on SOCNET, the 2nd Amendment tends to trump the 1st Amendment.

I suggest in the strongest terms that you stop spouting rhetoric and start producung facts to support your arguments... I look forward to bashing the shit out of that weak assed french fuck pm or yours.

Oh yeah, fuck you, eh?
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  #42  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:23
jim_vedder
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direct quote Nelson Mandela

All Bush Wants is Iraqi Oil, Says Mandela


Former president Nelson Mandela said on Thursday the United States was preparing to go to war because "George Bush wants to get hold of the Iraqi oil".


Former South African President Nelson Mandela lashed out at President George Bush's stance on Iraq January 30, 2003, saying the Texan had no foresight and could not think properly. Mandela speaks at an event to announce the partnership between the Nelson Mandela Children's Fund and The Diana, Princess of Wales Memorial Fund in London on November 2, 2002. (Stephen Hird/Reuters)

He was speaking in Johannesburg at the three-day International Women's Forum, which is being held in Africa for the first time.

Criticism of Bush dominated the former president's address as Mandela encouraged women throughout the world to be "bold with its leadership and condemn the looming war America is preparing for".

"The women's forum must make sure that all irregularities in the world are rectified. A war on Iraq is something we must condemn without reservation," the former president said.

"We must fight globalisation which is for the high and mighty... This is the task of the forum.

"All Bush wants is Iraqi oil, because Iraq produces 64 percent of oil and he wants to get hold of it.

"Bush is acting outside the United Nations and both he and (British Prime Minister) Tony Blair are undermining the United Nations, an organisation which was an idea sponsored by their predecessors."

Mandela also questioned whether the US was ignoring the UN because its secretary-general is black.

"Because they (America) are so arrogant, they killed innocent people in Japan during Hiroshima and Nagasaki," he said referring to the two atom bombs the US dropped on Japanese cities to end the Second World War.

'One power with a president who can't think properly, ... wants to plant the world into holocaust'
"If (Iraqi President) Saddam Hussein was not carrying out the UN instructions and resolutions... I will support them (the UN) without resignation, but what I condemn is one power with a president who can't think properly... wants to plant the world into holocaust."

The elderly statesman said he was pleased that the people of the world, including Americans, were opposing the US government.

"He (Bush) is making the greatest mistake of his life by trying to cause carnage.

"Why does the United States behave so arrogantly... Their friend Israel has got weapons of mass destruction but because its their ally they won't ask the UN to get rid of it. They just want the (Iraqi) oil... We must expose this as much as possible." - Sapa

Copyright 2003 Independent Online

###
  #43  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:27
socket socket is offline
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Who cares what Mandela says?
  #44  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:28
ktek01 ktek01 is offline
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Re: Re: it seems we all got off to a bad start

Quote:
Originally posted by Kid A


The following sentiment appeared in The Star on May 7, 1918.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

President Roosevelt

Criticism of the President and his policies is part of being an American. Anyone who tells me "love it or leave it" can fuck off. We're an "Experiment" in Democracy. We're forever changing, for the good and the bad, and to withhold criticism is the worst mistake one can make because it is criticism that can bring about change for the good.

It may be part of being an American, but he is Canadian.
  #45  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:30
Georgia Georgia is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jim_vedder
what is this a forum full of 15 year olds?

while i sit back and laugh at you people for getting your dicks tied in knots overthis.....i can admit when I was wrong....and although I maybe taking a bit of it out of context, Bush's own words were "dont hurt the oil".

And yes, it is good to hear that the american government is putting so much money back into Iraq...and I honestly hope that it goes how its meant to and that country gains some stability.

HOw long is there gonna need to be an american presence in Iraq? A year? 10 years? indefintly?
Why on Earth would you want the opinion of 15 year-old on such a topic? Oh ... BTW ... this has been discussed too....

Click here for your answer

Edited to add: Dude! That article is from January 2003! That was when the topic was still being debated in the UN! Try posting a current source for your argument! Oh yes, and links/crediting a source is also helpful.
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Last edited by Georgia; 8 September 2003 at 15:36.
  #46  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:31
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Bravo_One_Three Bravo_One_Three is offline
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Yeah, Castro is against it too... so what's your point? OOOOOHHH, you're one of those guys that gets a boner whenever you hear the name "Mandela"... now I get it.
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  #47  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:36
jim_vedder
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is this a interesting question?

"Why does the United States behave so arrogantly... Their friend Israel has got weapons of mass destruction but because its their ally they won't ask the UN to get rid of it. They just want the (Iraqi) oil... We must expose this as much as possible." - Sapa
  #48  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:38
Gulf Yankee Gulf Yankee is offline
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Re: direct quote Nelson Mandela

Quote:
Originally posted by jim_vedder
All Bush Wants is Iraqi Oil, Says Mandela
Is that it? Is that all you've got? Are you fucking kidding me?!? A quote from fucking Mandela?!?

Son, we've debated this issue to death. Some of us have done so while we were ass-deep in sand, including me.

If you want to debate an issue, fine. We are more than happy to hand your ass to you if you like. But you better bring more to the table than this horseshit.
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  #49  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:39
Kid A
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Re: Re: Re: it seems we all got off to a bad start

Quote:
Originally posted by ktek01
It may be part of being an American, but he is Canadian.
Oh - well then fuck him. I had a Canadian girlfriend who ran off with a doctor with a Porsche. Fuck her too.
  #50  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:39
jim_vedder
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bravo_One_Three
Yeah, Castro is against it too... so what's your point? OOOOOHHH, you're one of those guys that gets a boner whenever you hear the name "Mandela"... now I get it.
lol.......andd your one of those guys who thinks they should throw him back in the cage
  #51  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:42
jim_vedder
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Re: Re: direct quote Nelson Mandela

Quote:
Originally posted by Gulf Yankee
Is that it? Is that all you've got? Are you fucking kidding me?!? A quote from fucking Mandela?!?

Son, we've debated this issue to death. Some of us have done so while we were ass-deep in sand, including me.

If you want to debate an issue, fine. We are more than happy to hand your ass to you if you like. But you better bring more to the table than this horseshit.
You dont want to debate. You dont want to discuss...You would not except a hundred examples from people with different opinions than your own. So what does that say about you?

you should trdy not choking on your arrogance
  #52  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:44
socket socket is offline
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You're the one who doesn't want to debate, vedder. Where's your real evidence? Mandela is irrelevent.
  #53  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:47
jim_vedder
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ok ok

Yes...I made a comment in the beginning that was undeserving and unqualified. That was a mistake, I admit that...And as for Nelson Mendela it was just an example.

Now can we move past this? Or would you all just prefer that I not post anymore?
  #54  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:49
Kid A
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Re: Re: Re: direct quote Nelson Mandela

Quote:
Originally posted by jim_vedder
You dont want to debate. You dont want to discuss...You would not except a hundred examples from people with different opinions than your own. So what does that say about you?

you should trdy not choking on your arrogance
Debate:

George Bush, the American President, pushed for, and started an illegal war against the Sovereign Nation of Iraq for various reasons, number one among them being Iraq's rich oil reserves. He deliberately ignored the UN, destroyed the good-feeling towards the US by most of the nations of the world after 9/11, and has put troops in harm's way and spent billions of dollars for one purpose: to seize Iraq's oil.

To this end, I submit the following 5 strong reasons to support this thesis:

1. Fill in
2. Fill in
3. Fill in
4. Fill in
5. Fill in.

____
THAT would be the beginnings of a DEBATE. You provide a thesis statement and reasons behind it. You then prepare to DEFEND those statements from your opponent.

You, saying "Bush went to war for oil (paraphrased)" is NOT a debate. It's a stupid statement that you apparently can't back up. You give nothing, and expect people to come out and either support or detract from the statement.

You're a troll.

So Mandela criticized Bush. Big deal. So did hundreds of thousands of others.

You, however, haven't given one sentence to back up your original statement other than the statement of some other guy.
  #55  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:51
Georgia Georgia is offline
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Re: Re: Re: direct quote Nelson Mandela

Quote:
Originally posted by jim_vedder
You dont want to debate. You dont want to discuss...You would not except a hundred examples from people with different opinions than your own.
If you would try sticking to one topic rather than throwing out random questions and if you would use sound logic to support your position rather than irrelevant out of date quotes, then perhaps someone would take you seriously enough to discuss the issue with you.
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  #56  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:52
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Bravo_One_Three Bravo_One_Three is offline
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Re: is this a interesting question?

Quote:
Originally posted by jim_vedder
"Why does the United States behave so arrogantly... Their friend Israel has got weapons of mass destruction but because its their ally they won't ask the UN to get rid of it. They just want the (Iraqi) oil... We must expose this as much as possible." - Sapa
The difference is that Israel won't just arbitrarily nuke Riahd, Tehran, Damascus, Cairo or Tripoli. Yet if one of those regimes gets hold of a couple of nukes, we can DEFINITELY kiss Tel Aviv, Haifa, New York City, and Washington DC goodbye.

Try to use your brain for at least 10 minutes a day, eh?

Arrogantly? Mother fucker, fully 50% of the world population is alive because we have been at the forfront of bitchslapping genocidal, oppressive, aggressive nations. If that is arrogant, then sure, I'm OK with it.

You want arrogance? Tell me who the #1 stakeholder outside of Europe in TotalFinaElf... who was (until recently) the #1 foreign oil interest in Iraq.
__________________
The "Best Tactics" to use are the ones which allow you to shoot the other guy before he shoots you. Whether your pinky is fully extended or not is a matter of aesthetics, not tactics.

Never fuck with a guy who wants to die in battle.

Last edited by Bravo_One_Three; 8 September 2003 at 15:56.
  #57  
Old 8 September 2003, 15:58
jim_vedder
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ok point taken....and as i said it was a rutless remark that I made...but I do have my opinions about this war, just has you have yours.
  #58  
Old 8 September 2003, 16:05
Grail
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quote:Originally posted by jim_vedder
"Why does the United States behave so arrogantly... Their friend Israel has got weapons of mass destruction but because its their ally they won't ask the UN to get rid of it. They just want the (Iraqi) oil... We must expose this as much as possible." - Sapa



I hear this same argument all the time in my college classes. They say "America invaded to get Iraqi oil." The strange thing is that when I ask them this-- "Ok, since we want their oil fields so much, why didn't we just take them after the first Gulf War?"-- the conversation comes to an abrupt halt.(usually with them grumbling rude implications about my parentage) Never could quite figure it out.............
  #59  
Old 8 September 2003, 16:08
Gulf Yankee Gulf Yankee is offline
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Re: Re: Re: direct quote Nelson Mandela

Quote:
Originally posted by jim_vedder
You dont want to debate. You dont want to discuss...You would not except a hundred examples from people with different opinions than your own. So what does that say about you?

you should trdy not choking on your arrogance
What that says about me is that I am a guy who until three months ago was sitting in the middle of the fucking Arabian Gulf, doing instead of debating.

You are new to these boards so let me give you some insight, boy. I am more than happy to discuss or debate anything...WHEN the point is made intelligently. I have several hundred posts on these boards backing me up on that very point.

You come here, you spout moronic comments which will do nothing other than inflame passions, you make unsubstantiated and unqualified comments and then your sole support of these comments is a quote or two from some inconsequential leader of a 3rd world country that is wholly uninvolved from the entire issue? You have not expressed an opinion, kid, you have regurgitated someone else's, complete and unabridged. So either step up or shut the fuck up.

Don't lecture me son. I was knee-dip in shitholes in the service of this country while you were still sucking your momma's tit.
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  #60  
Old 8 September 2003, 16:11
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Jimbo Jimbo is offline
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Re: Re: is this a interesting question?

Quote:
Originally posted by Bravo_One_Three
Mother fucker, fully 50% of the world population is alive because we have been at the forfront of bitchslapping genocidal, oppressive, aggressive nations. If that is arrogant, then sure, I'm OK with it.
And I have a new sig line.
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