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  #81  
Old 5 September 2017, 21:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatpaws View Post
Damn skippy. That statement from the doctor shouldn't be allowed in the trial. Also it seems like the doctor violated patient confidentiality. Civil lawsuit?
No physician-patient privilege in criminal proceedings here in PA.
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  #82  
Old 5 September 2017, 22:44
Stretch Stretch is offline
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Originally Posted by havok88 View Post
supposedly the patient was a police officer.
I read the same...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/us/utah-nurse-alex-wubbels.html

Quote:
The patient, identified as William Gray, was a truck driver and reserve police officer for the Rigby Police Department in Idaho. He was not suspected of wrongdoing; a driver fleeing the police crashed into Mr. Gray’s truck, severely injuring Mr. Gray and killing himself.
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  #83  
Old 6 September 2017, 00:54
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Originally Posted by KS11 View Post
That's my only guess as to why they went to such great lengths to get blood drawn from a victim and why they didn't feel like waiting for a warrant, etc.
When investigating a fatal wreck with a commercial motor vehicle (CDL-regardless of fault), officers request a breath sample of all drivers involved, or blood, one or the other. In some states, you may be required by law to submit a breath sample if your in a fatal wreck involving just regular passenger vehicles.

In this incident in Salt Lake, that officer should have just subpoena'd the med records. This officers supervisor should have known that, and the Chief really should have known that.
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  #84  
Old 6 September 2017, 01:35
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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The thing that popped up in my mind was that SLCPD never had jurisdiction in this case. The crash occurred over 70 miles away.

So what was Payne doing there in the first place? Who asked SLCPD to get a blood sample?
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  #85  
Old 6 September 2017, 08:49
Tackleberry Tackleberry is offline
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Pension

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Originally Posted by just11b View Post
Yep, but not from his pension or bank accounts unfortunately. This will cost the taxpayers, as it does each and every other time.
I believe, in Massachusetts, one could lose their pension if fired over an incident such as this. All pension systems are different though.
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  #86  
Old 7 September 2017, 06:18
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What you DIDN'T do . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmueller View Post
The thing that popped up in my mind was that SLCPD never had jurisdiction in this case. The crash occurred over 70 miles away.

So what was Payne doing there in the first place? Who asked SLCPD to get a blood sample?
Was read the whole thread . . .

An Idaho police department is thanking a Utah nurse for stopping a Salt Lake City officer from obtaining a blood sample from one of their reserve officers who was unconscious in a hospital.

Police in the eastern Idaho town of Rigby said Friday that William Gray was severely injured in a Utah crash in July when the semi-truck he was driving for work was hit by another car.

Rigby police said in a statement they didn't know until Thursday that the nurse was arrested after refusing to allow blood to be drawn from Gray.

The department thanked the nurse, Alex Wubbels, and hospital "for standing firm" and protecting the Gray's rights.

It says he is still hospitalized.

TRY to keep up, Bob.
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  #87  
Old 7 September 2017, 09:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havok88 View Post
supposedly the patient was a police officer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
Correct. He was a reserve officer, but was not working as a police officer at the time the fleeing suspect hit him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris-Harper View Post
When investigating a fatal wreck with a commercial motor vehicle (CDL-regardless of fault), officers request a breath sample of all drivers involved, or blood, one or the other. In some states, you may be required by law to submit a breath sample if your in a fatal wreck involving just regular passenger vehicles.

In this incident in Salt Lake, that officer should have just subpoena'd the med records. This officers supervisor should have known that, and the Chief really should have known that.
Agreed. I'd wager that they DID know that. No way they're that out of the loop, which only further makes you wonder why they went about it the way that they did.
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  #88  
Old 7 September 2017, 10:20
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  #89  
Old 7 September 2017, 11:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KS11 View Post
Correct. He was a reserve officer, but was not working as a police officer at the time the fleeing suspect hit him.



Agreed. I'd wager that they DID know that. No way they're that out of the loop, which only further makes you wonder why they went about it the way that they did.
Right. One of the stories I saw said the officer requesting the sample may have known the other officer and was trying to do him a favor. I really don't know what the truth is though.
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  #90  
Old 7 September 2017, 14:18
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Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
According to the RN wife, he would be lucky to get off with that, apparently people have gone to actual prison for violating HIPPA.
Lots of things wrong in this incident, but I don't think HIPAA is the issue. HIPAA has to do with revealing or sharing information, such as the results of a blood test, without a legally compelling reason; not the actual tissue sample. The last position paper I read on something like that was from 2003, and it was still a grey area in that discussion of tissue used for research assays.
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  #91  
Old 7 September 2017, 16:58
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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According to Logan PD, they investigated the crash at the request of UHP, since UHP was on the pursuit. Logan PD "simply asked for inter-departmental assistance from Salt Lake City Police Department in obtaining a blood sample."

https://www.facebook.com/LoganPolice...87335117978594

https://www.facebook.com/LoganPolice...88497367862369
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  #92  
Old 7 September 2017, 19:37
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Lightbulb Implied Consent Law.

Quote:
This law states that by driving a vehicle you have agreed to submit to chemical tests of your breath, blood, or urine to determine alcohol or drug content if asked to do so by a law enforcement officer.
Quote:
Implied consent is consent which is not expressly granted by a person, but rather implicitly granted by a person's actions and the facts and circumstances of a particular situation (or in some cases, by a person's silence or inaction).
I just had a former police chief explain it however, he did say he would not proceed that way since most ER will conduct a toxicology anyways.
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  #93  
Old 7 September 2017, 21:06
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I just had a former police chief explain it however, he did say he would not proceed that way since most ER will conduct a toxicology anyways.
From what I understand and the way I was trained, implied consent only applies when you're under arrest (from a DWI aspect).

You are not legally bound to perform any field sobriety tests or a portable breath test when asked to do so by the officer while still at the scene (ie when stopped on a traffic stop, DWI checkpoint, etc). It's once you've been placed under arrest and then asked for a breath sample, blood, or urine, for evidentiary purposes, that implied consent applies and if you refuse, then all the administrative sanctions to your DL, etc, come into effect.

It's while still on the scene when you're asked to perform FST's or blow in a PBT, they are gathering enough probable cause to arrest you for DWI. Just because you refuse to perform any FST's or blow into PBT on a traffic stop or checkpoint, etc, doesn't mean you won't get arrested. Just means they have less evidence.

Now, I've been out since 2007 and things may have changed, but I don't think so. Our DWI classes back at the academy, some of our speakers/instructors were prominent DWI defense attorneys.
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  #94  
Old 8 September 2017, 01:58
57Medic 57Medic is offline
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There is another issue here, which concerns the legality of blood samples. If the blood is drawn for legal use, it must follow the chain of evidence policy. This means using a non-alcohol prep swab, the labeling of sample, and transport by hand to the lab. This mimics the sexual assault kit chain of evidence policy. Having been in the nurses shoes, as well as Nursing supervision, bravo to them!! Did anyone catch the LEO threatening retribution to the hospital by "I will bring all the transients and troublemakers here and take real patients elsewhere" Real class act.
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  #95  
Old 8 September 2017, 14:07
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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Originally Posted by 57Medic View Post
Did anyone catch the LEO threatening retribution to the hospital by "I will bring all the transients and troublemakers here and take real patients elsewhere" Real class act.
The ambulance service he worked PT for fired him over that remark. Good for them.
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  #96  
Old 8 September 2017, 17:33
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Feeb's has opened their own investigation into Detective Payne. Getting fired from his part time job is probably the least of his worries.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ut...-idUSKCN1BJ2D0
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  #97  
Old 9 September 2017, 14:22
havok88 havok88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris-Harper View Post
From what I understand and the way I was trained, implied consent only applies when you're under arrest (from a DWI aspect).

You are not legally bound to perform any field sobriety tests or a portable breath test when asked to do so by the officer while still at the scene (ie when stopped on a traffic stop, DWI checkpoint, etc). It's once you've been placed under arrest and then asked for a breath sample, blood, or urine, for evidentiary purposes, that implied consent applies and if you refuse, then all the administrative sanctions to your DL, etc, come into effect.

It's while still on the scene when you're asked to perform FST's or blow in a PBT, they are gathering enough probable cause to arrest you for DWI. Just because you refuse to perform any FST's or blow into PBT on a traffic stop or checkpoint, etc, doesn't mean you won't get arrested. Just means they have less evidence.

Now, I've been out since 2007 and things may have changed, but I don't think so. Our DWI classes back at the academy, some of our speakers/instructors were prominent DWI defense attorneys.
That's how I understood it as well reading it in this link.

http://dui.drivinglaws.org/resources/dui-refusal-blood-breath-urine-test/utah.htm
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  #98  
Old 27 September 2017, 11:34
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The victim (William Gray) in this case, has died as a result of his injuries.

https://www.rt.com/usa/404735-utah-n...-patient-dies/
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  #99  
Old 27 September 2017, 13:32
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RIP

whatever else, you were a victim.
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  #100  
Old 27 September 2017, 14:15
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