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  #2721  
Old 9 July 2018, 20:10
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Damn man, sorry to hear that.
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  #2722  
Old 9 July 2018, 20:55
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Originally Posted by TX teacher View Post
Any chance he has read that book? If so, do you know what his thoughts were regarding accuracy, or just overall opinion?

Anybody here have any thoughts on this book?
I have not read it, my wife has and she liked it.

Have you read Matterhorn? Great read re Viet Nam.
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  #2723  
Old 10 July 2018, 06:34
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Originally Posted by SOW_0331 View Post
"Leadership and Self-deception"
A little different from what I normally read. Saw this at borders when they were clearing out and thought it was worth a read.

Definitely a recommendation for anyone who has to deal with people daily, especially if your day relies on a positive outcome. Also worked to help with some personal issues as well, as far as dealing with difficult family times. Great book to make work easier, or at least more pleasant.
It's awesome you added that the book helped you with some of your personal issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-X-P0tzlF8 ...summary

I've read this book as well.

If you can admit YOUR failures and shortcomings AND learn from them, your team sees their failures individually, accounts for them and makes the organization better.

When I was in the Army the term self-deception, and all the aspects that go along with it weren't prevalent. I had NO idea what the phrase meant (at least in the Infantry world I grew up in) because the leadership in place made the individual accountable for his own failures down to the lowest level.

We all know this, but the rest of the country is far behind and I really had no idea.

Example:

My wife and I took our 2 and 3-year-old boys to Cedar Point yesterday after I got off at 8:00 in the AM. A mother about my age (33ish) and her 2 or 3-year-old daughter was standing in line with us waiting to get on a ride. The worker measured her child's height and told the mother her child was too short for the ride. The mother argues loudly with the worker and the main point of her argument was her daughter had been allowed to ride this particular ride yesterday (well, yesterday isn't today so...move along). Instead of accepting the worker's authority she had to complain about it and challenge it, while her daughter, unfortunately for the future of this great nation, learned from her. However, the female worker from the Czech Republic knows if the child got injured because of the decision she made, she'd be held accountable. What's even more fascinating to me as I walked around Cedar Point yesterday, I noticed most of the people operating the rides are from other countries. Is it because the leadership of Cedar Point knows how vital this summer job is to them and being important they'll do exactly as their leadership demands? Whereas an American 20-something-year-old kid could really care less because he has the controlled environment of mommy and daddy to fall back on. From what I see walking around at Cedar Point (we have season passes for the boys and us, so we go a lot), the American kids working at Cedar Point hold the jobs which require zero confrontation or responsibility. 20-year-old American male and college student Avery Smith doesn't get to control the rides, because he can't handle the battle that might go along with telling someone, "no." Avery is only afforded the responsibility to sit at the exit and ask people if they'd like a handstamp to get back into the park. Alternatively, Avery might be tasked with asking people coming inside the park if they want him to take a picture. If the family agrees excellent, he snaps the photo, gives them a card and sends them off. If the family says no, Avery isn't asked to make a crucial authoritarian decision because he probably can't be trusted for that tasking anyway. Confrontation might turn into bending the rules, bending the rules turns into deaths at the park (bad for business), deaths turn into law-suits and fewer visitors, and law-suits and fewer visitors generally mean money out and not money in.

I was a strong private because I forgot shit which was required of me ALL the time; I-Corps Bluebook, Ranger Handbook, dog-tags, pen, paper, you name it, I'd forget it. Interestingly enough, my failures were helping the Army in the big picture because I was physically fit; failures directly and immediately dealt with and turned into progress. Blaming other people is not an acceptable excuse. Really, the only acceptable excuse where I grew up in the Big-Green Army was, "I have no excuse, it's my mistake alone, and I failed the team." There's no worse feeling than failing your team and making it known to your team that YOU failed them. Failing your team in our world means someone might not go home. Which again, you'll be held accountable if someone doesn't go home. You and your team will pack up their belongings and send them home and trust me when I say this, you'll feel accountable even if you DID the right PCC/PCI's. I would say that's the Army or the Military-way in general, but, we all know, it's unit dependent. CSM Viriato Ferrera, then 1SG for me, held you accountable EVERY-DAMN-DAY!

A lack of courage and accountability is the issue with the American Policing world in general (IMO). IME/O, Cops LOVE telling people how dangerous their job is but HATE training to deal with the nasty, terrible things they love to talk SO much about to others. Alternatively, even better, ask a patrolman that has 10-15 years on the job to make sure he has all his shit for the road, and he's going to be offended you'd ask such a thing. When really, I just want to make sure you go home, is that really a bad thing? I have to beg someone to check my shit, and even then, they are scared to tell me I'm wrong or missing stuff.

There's a considerable lack of accountability and more importantly courage to do the right thing. As Police Officers, if we can't generally do the right thing, what the fuck are we doing? Determining what's right and wrong, more specifically what's "reasonable" is the fundamental principle of our being. Maybe it's easy for me to say because I've only been a Policeman for 5-years(ish), but our job is helping and dealing with people and doing what's right by them. I took a call to back up a Deputy last week, domestic, b/f won't allow g/f and their young infant to leave home, she's scared and calls for help. She's a SCARED young mother who called YOU(!) to save her, who else in the world would you as a male Officer want to help? It's like a superhero's main objective! When the deputy and I arrive, we can't locate them; dispatch tells us we can cancel, the b/f let them out and he's now down the road at a buddy's house. The deputy (in his 40s, fat, and out of shape) looks at me and says, "see, that's why I hate this job, bullshit calls like that, you know..?" I said, "well, just because he finally let them leave doesn't mean a domestic violence crime wasn't committed, let's go find the fucker." "Fuck'em," he says. I said, "I bet if that were your daughter trapped against her will with your infant grandbaby, you'd be singing a different tune, Fuck-stick." I got a talking-to about my tactfulness, not my decision to call the deputy out.

I miss being held accountable, the 19-year-old 256 would not agree. Accountability is the reason I enjoy SOCNET. Here, I've already learned that you had better hold yourself responsible for what you're about to say because someone with real-world experience "...will be along shortly..." to tell you how wrong you are (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) to hold you accountable for the information you're putting out, because, people may use your good or fucked up information to make life decisions.

There are lots and lots of great Policeman out there, I fully understand that and I am proud of them. I just think we have our work cut out to make the profession better.

Also, maybe we can use "I-John-Giduck(ed)-it" or "I-shoveled-it" as a phrase for our life fuck ups?
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Last edited by 256; 10 July 2018 at 06:53. Reason: I added that the 40 year old deputy was fat..out of shape and John Giduck parts
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  #2724  
Old 10 July 2018, 06:54
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How are you liking the Peterson book? I have it on a get-to list, but haven't obtained it from the library. Thoughtful and useful, or an upjumped magazine article pushed into a book?
I think Peterson is brilliant. The audio book does however require really focused listening, as I'm sure you've noticed watching him elsewhere and that's been a bit of a challenge for me.

He delivers a very large amount of information every time he talks. Whether he's on the Joe Rogan show, a TV interview, giving a lecture, casually conversing...when he talks he delivers information at his level, which is quite a bit above most people's intellectual ability.

The content simply isn't as if you were listening to Tony Robbins. It's much more cerebral and he has a peculiar voice, which adds some challenges to the experience.

Hence, I'm going to buy the paperback and start from page 1. What I've gleaned so far, about four chapters in, is good and I would recommend it. You will certainly find familiar topics (lobsters, infantile responses etc.) but they are accompanied with personal anecdotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainBum View Post
Nice. Just finished that after binging on his interviews / videos...
You and me, brother. I got hooked when Zonk sent me a video six months ago where he put on an evolutionary psychology clinic.

Since then...hooked.

If you haven't subscribed to his podcast, or you have and can get over the absymsal sound quality of most episodes, his latest one on intelligence was excellent.
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  #2725  
Old 10 July 2018, 15:37
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Thanks Mixedload. Ordered the Peterson book.
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  #2726  
Old 10 July 2018, 21:32
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Thanks Mixedload. Ordered the Peterson book.
I think you will enjoy it.
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  #2727  
Old 12 July 2018, 11:12
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Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET View Post
I have not read it, my wife has and she liked it.

Have you read Matterhorn? Great read re Viet Nam.
I have not read it, but I just looked it up on Amazon and put a copy in my cart. Thanks for the suggestion.
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  #2728  
Old 14 July 2018, 17:20
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  #2729  
Old 15 July 2018, 22:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET View Post
Have you read Matterhorn? Great read re Viet Nam.
Have you ready 'Body Count'? First read it in the 70's, the author passed a several years ago; but when I first read Matterhorn, the two books were eerily similar.

https://www.amazon.com/Body-Count-William-Turner-Huggett/dp/B001EUCWTC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1531708458&sr=1-1&keywords=Body+Count
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  #2730  
Old 17 July 2018, 18:43
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Starting on book number 7 since the first of June. This one will be "Brotherhood of Spies: The U-2 and the CIA's Secret War" by Monte Reel.

I was going to read a book on LBJ called Dereliction of Duty, but that'll be after I finish this.
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  #2731  
Old 18 July 2018, 23:21
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  #2732  
Old 18 July 2018, 23:45
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I like Kipling.
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