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  #1  
Old 20 June 2019, 20:15
Look. Don'tTouch. Look. Don'tTouch. is offline
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True water-proof container?

I have unsuccessfully tried purchasing several containers in an effort to find one that's water-proof.
This pelican was the most recent.
After a week in a bucket with a paper towel inside, I opened it and found the paper towel wet.

Does anyone have a product they can recommend that truly is water-proof?

The purpose of this is to protect important documents and electronics from wildfire. The box will be buried in the ground and must survive the wet winters.
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  #2  
Old 20 June 2019, 20:31
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Wouldn't a PVC pipe with a clean out work?
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  #3  
Old 20 June 2019, 23:15
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
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Dry bag inside of a Pelican?
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  #4  
Old 20 June 2019, 23:21
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KW Driver KW Driver is offline
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Vacuum sealed, in a dry bag, inside a something.

Buried away from any kind of root structure if you’re worried about fire.
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  #5  
Old 20 June 2019, 23:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KW Driver View Post
Vacuum sealed, in a dry bag, inside a something.

Buried away from any kind of root structure if you’re worried about fire.
I think that is probably the best idea for burying. Then put that in a sealed PVC pipe and put the PVC pipe in another vacuum seal bag if you're like me. I'd still worry about condensation but you could experiment with a couple moisture absorbers to see how that works.

However -

Can you scan the documents to the cloud and put the electronics in a bank safe deposit box? That's about as waterproof as it gets.
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  #6  
Old 20 June 2019, 23:56
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I think a desiccant pack in the vacuum seal should keep the papers dry. The rest is to preserve the vacuum seal.

But yeah, properly capped PVC should do it too, so long as it doesn’t melt/crush.
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  #7  
Old 21 June 2019, 00:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KW Driver View Post
melt/crush.
Good point.

2 inch iron pipe from Lowe's, capped with thread sealant?

Or, safety deposit box
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  #8  
Old 21 June 2019, 00:19
Akheloce Akheloce is offline
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Dig a trench approx. 4' x 100' x at least 6' below the frostline in your area.

Make sure that it slopes downhill on the lengthwise axis.

At the top end of the trench, fill in 2' of 3"minus sewer rock.

Above that sewer rock, build a box 2' x 2' x 6' with 1" marine grade okoume plywood.

Inside that plywood box, build a liner with 1" blue board insulation.

Inside the insulation, place (as many as needed) 6" PVC pipe, capped at both ends and sealed with Oatey PVC cement.

Inside the 6" PVC, place a 5" ABS pipe, capped at both ends and sealed with Oatey ABS cement.

Fill the void with closed cell expandable foam.

Fill the 5" ABS with Cosmoline

Vacuum seal documents and electronics in 5 mil Mylar

Insert them into the ABS, and continue to fill (to at least 3 PSI) with Cosmoline.

After all is safely in the trench, fill the remainder of the trench with 3" minus sewer rock.

Cap the trench with Typar, at least 12" below grade.

Fill remainder of trench (up to 6" below grade) with 10,000 PSI fiberglass reinforced concrete.

Cap remainder of trench with your choice of potting soil/garden/sod, etc.



Vacuum sealing twice (like advised above) is redundant, and quite frankly ridiculous.
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  #9  
Old 21 June 2019, 00:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
Dig a trench approx. 4' x 100' x at least 6' below the frostline in your area.

Make sure that it slopes downhill on the lengthwise axis.

At the top end of the trench, fill in 2' of 3"minus sewer rock.

Above that sewer rock, build a box 2' x 2' x 6' with 1" marine grade okoume plywood.

Inside that plywood box, build a liner with 1" blue board insulation.

Inside the insulation, place (as many as needed) 6" PVC pipe, capped at both ends and sealed with Oatey PVC cement.

Inside the 6" PVC, place a 5" ABS pipe, capped at both ends and sealed with Oatey ABS cement.

Fill the void with closed cell expandable foam.

Fill the 5" ABS with Cosmoline

Vacuum seal documents and electronics in 5 mil Mylar

Insert them into the ABS, and continue to fill (to at least 3 PSI) with Cosmoline.

After all is safely in the trench, fill the remainder of the trench with 3" minus sewer rock.

Cap the trench with Typar, at least 12" below grade.

Fill remainder of trench (up to 6" below grade) with 10,000 PSI fiberglass reinforced concrete.

Cap remainder of trench with your choice of potting soil/garden/sod, etc.



Vacuum sealing twice (like advised above) is redundant, and quite frankly ridiculous.
LOL. Have you considered decaf?
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  #10  
Old 21 June 2019, 00:34
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L,DT...were you in a humid/relatively humid environment when you closed the paper towel in the Pelican case? If so, humidity and the change in outside vs inside the container will create condensation.
Your best bet as others have mentioned, is a desiccant and/or an O2 absorber (used to keep food preserved). Paper, or (i.e. your documents) is organic and likes to absorb moisture. The case with an desiccant pack or two, plus packing in a dry area should prevent hygro-effects.
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  #11  
Old 21 June 2019, 11:05
Hopeless Civilian Hopeless Civilian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
Dig a trench approx. 4' x 100' x at least 6' below the frostline in your area.

Make sure that it slopes downhill on the lengthwise axis.

At the top end of the trench, fill in 2' of 3"minus sewer rock.

Above that sewer rock, build a box 2' x 2' x 6' with 1" marine grade okoume plywood.

Inside that plywood box, build a liner with 1" blue board insulation.

Inside the insulation, place (as many as needed) 6" PVC pipe, capped at both ends and sealed with Oatey PVC cement.

Inside the 6" PVC, place a 5" ABS pipe, capped at both ends and sealed with Oatey ABS cement.

Fill the void with closed cell expandable foam.

Fill the 5" ABS with Cosmoline

Vacuum seal documents and electronics in 5 mil Mylar

Insert them into the ABS, and continue to fill (to at least 3 PSI) with Cosmoline.

After all is safely in the trench, fill the remainder of the trench with 3" minus sewer rock.

Cap the trench with Typar, at least 12" below grade.

Fill remainder of trench (up to 6" below grade) with 10,000 PSI fiberglass reinforced concrete.

Cap remainder of trench with your choice of potting soil/garden/sod, etc.



Vacuum sealing twice (like advised above) is redundant, and quite frankly ridiculous.
So that's what happened to Hoffa!😉
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  #12  
Old 21 June 2019, 17:50
Look. Don'tTouch. Look. Don'tTouch. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAFO View Post
L,DT...were you in a humid/relatively humid environment when you closed the paper towel in the Pelican case?
I was in my house with the AC on, so that could do it. I'll try again with packing it outside in the heat of the sun. Will add moisture absorbents this time and see how much better it goes.

No cloud use here, the hard drive is a backup of all things data related. It's kind of a bug-out kit that will be offsite but accessible, without the need to rely on business hours, internet, keys, etc.

I had also tried ABS with the threaded ends. That didn't work well at all. At least with this pelican there might be a chance it was just dampness because there wasn't droplets of water but the paper towel was surely damp. I have desiccant but would prefer to not check the stash box often to replace those.

I didn't know if there was something on the market for divers or specifically to be kept in water. I'd be willing to pay a little more to get peace of mind and just get this done.
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  #13  
Old 22 June 2019, 09:15
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litepath litepath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAFO View Post
L,DT...were you in a humid/relatively humid environment when you closed the paper towel in the Pelican case? If so, humidity and the change in outside vs inside the container will create condensation.
Your best bet as others have mentioned, is a desiccant and/or an O2 absorber (used to keep food preserved). Paper, or (i.e. your documents) is organic and likes to absorb moisture. The case with an desiccant pack or two, plus packing in a dry area should prevent hygro-effects.
Word!

Try an old Ammo container, VN era. The Metal-kind with the rubber seal. And yes, equalize the temp/humidity, etc. before closing. Also, look up ways to reduce the humidity; hair dryer? placing inside a humidity controlled gun safe/ etc.

I'd also consider placing the important *test* papers in a bag well flattened out to remove as much air as possible. And some on the outside of the bag.
Maybe do another with desiccant in the bag. But certainly desiccant in the container itself.

And lastly, put in a humidity sensor card so you can quickly visually check yo-sef!
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  #14  
Old 22 June 2019, 13:57
Steve788 Steve788 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Look. Don'tTouch. View Post
The purpose of this is to protect important documents and electronics from wildfire. The box will be buried in the ground and must survive the wet winters.
Don't know your home construction, but on a slab, I'd
peel back a few square feet of carpeting in one of the
closets, and break out an opening of suitable size to
allow burial of the storage container. Lay a couple of
pieces of cut-to-size fibered cement siding on top and
backfill.

Putting it under the slab should greatly reduce the
exposure to hydrostatic pressure and moisture intrusion.
Reading on electrical contractor forums, the consensus is
"no matter how well it was glued", underground PVC
conduit is always full of water, when it's dug up after a
few years. Subgrade hydrostatic pressure is relentless...

AFA vacuum sealing anything--seems like you'd just be
increasing pressure gradient from inside-to-outside,
making it easier for "outside stuff" to defeat the
packaging.
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  #15  
Old 23 June 2019, 07:52
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If you have one of those portable dehumidifiers, stick it in a small room/closet and let it run at its lowest setting for a day or two with everything in there (docs, vaccum bags, etc). Then seal everything up in that space. Best "no-humidity" environment you're going to get, outside of taking everything to Arizona.

Then I'd do the Vacuum bag inside something else deal - maybe the preppers can talk about how they do food inside 5 gallon buckets?

Edit: Yeah ^^^ I've heard vacuums aren't the best due to them sucking shit in (or trying to). Sealed Mylar bag (iron) with Desiccant and O2 absorbers?
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  #16  
Old 23 June 2019, 09:10
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Otter box for documents, inside of a drybag, inside an ammo can......
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  #17  
Old 24 June 2019, 02:07
Steve788 Steve788 is offline
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Ammo cans rust if you look at em sideways...
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  #18  
Old 24 June 2019, 05:46
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is online now
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Displacing O2 with dry ice is the best method available without lab-grade equipment. As the dry ice sublimates, the CO2 will sink to the bottom of whatever container you are using --- pushing out the O2. Since the expansion ratio of CO2 (volumetrically) is ~535:1, it really doesn't take much dry ice to displace the O2 in a container. It's how the best home-made food storage is done as a final step before the lids get put on.

Combine this with desiccant and a good airtight/watertight container, using what other posters have said and you should be GTG.
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  #19  
Old 24 June 2019, 16:34
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Ammo cans rust if you look at em sideways...
Only if you don't treat em proper.
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  #20  
Old 25 June 2019, 12:14
Look. Don'tTouch. Look. Don'tTouch. is offline
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Round 2 here. I noticed the box was not as tightly closed at the front. Opening it shows the evidence on the o-ring, where it has indentations at the rear and sides but the front does not. A quick modification with a thin strip of plastic or rubber at the latches forces a tighter seal. I'm certain the front of the o-ring will now be dented as it should be.

Box is in the bucket again. Day 4 right now. Will pull it up in a day or two and give it a check.
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