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  #61  
Old 2 July 2016, 07:17
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Originally Posted by SeanC007 View Post
...some serious reading into DIM MAK (pressure/ joint control) wouldn't hurt either.
How has that worked out for you in the real world?

Pressure point fighting is cool...like a good old fashioned neck punch or dropping an elbow or a shin on a joint.
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  #62  
Old 2 July 2016, 11:11
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I crashed my bicycle as a kid one time and got "dim mak"-ed in the solar-plexis. I couldn't breath well for maybe 3-4 minutes. We also did some of this in old-school Japanese Jiu-Jitsu (part of our advanced Judo instruction).

Here is what I believe is the scientific explanation:
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Originally Posted by wikipedia
Getting the wind knocked out of you is a commonly used idiom that refers to a kind of diaphragm spasm that occurs when sudden force is applied to the abdomen which puts pressure on the solar plexus. This often happens in contact sports, a forceful blow to the abdomen, or by falling on the back. It results in a temporary paralysis of the diaphragm that makes it difficult to breathe.[1] This can lead to anxiety and there may be residual pain from the original blow, but the condition should clear spontaneously in a minute or two. This can lead to continued difficulty breathing, standing, or sitting.
Most of us who've played contact sports of any kind have experienced this to some degree.
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  #63  
Old 2 July 2016, 11:37
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Originally Posted by SeanC007 View Post
Since you already have a Judo background, IMO, I would say Japanese Ju Jutsu, (The parent of BJJ) may be easier to pick up and more along the lines of what your looking for but, some serious reading into DIM MAK (pressure/ joint control) wouldn't hurt either.
Had a good amount in both Judo and a few months of Aikido.

What I really lack is the explosive standing techniques against more than one attacker. I do not want to get tied up grappling or joint-locking with one and get blindsided with a rock to the back of the head from another.

Muay Thai could be effective (or even Judo, if I was still young and fast), but I'm still leaning Toward Krav. And I'd love to suppliment that with some boxing footwork. This would really help strengthen where I'm currently weakest, and counter my existing "training/instinct" to go to ground.
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  #64  
Old 2 July 2016, 11:56
SeanC007 SeanC007 is offline
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Technically, dim mak is the healing touch but, it got badly translated. When I've "read" into different styles I was interested in learning to try and incorporate specific techniques into my MMA portfolio dim mak kind of stuck out a bit because of the similarities with aikido, judo, ju jutsu, and aiki budo, granted, it just went more in-depth about the joint control and pressure points and how / why they work with body; i.e. clapping the ears then grabbing the ear and using it as a handle to push your thumb through the eye, inserting your knee into the groin then pulling opponent towards you and onto the ground and finally, a gracious application of shoe leather on their face, multiple applications may be necessary (if multiple facial applications are failing, apply to neck.) However, train as you fight, may be not best idea with certain H2H styles.
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  #65  
Old 2 July 2016, 12:29
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In my personal experiences I found the easiest way to deal with multiple attackers is to use your adrenaline to your advantage and run, to either get away or draw them into a 1 on 1 encounter. When that's not an option, go for the soft or weak spots. (groin, eyes, ears, nose, ankles, neck, wrists, spine.) Just remember, your face is not an effective blocking tool, however, someone else's can be.
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  #66  
Old 2 July 2016, 12:34
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In my personal experiences I found the easiest way to deal with multiple attackers is to use your adrenaline to your advantage and run, to either get away or draw them into a 1 on 1 encounter.
Agree, but plan to train as if the wife was with me. And I'm hoping I can get her to some classes (between her two jobs, it's doubtful), so it's really all on me.
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  #67  
Old 2 July 2016, 16:22
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OK all fine and dandy as long as you are not trying to play off Dim Mak and some mystical "death touch" Martial Art.lol

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  #68  
Old 3 July 2016, 09:54
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Rotflmao.. Absolutely not, I was born at night but it wasn't last night. It has some interesting technical information that's why I was saying to give it a read. Granted, remembering half the stuff learned in the heat of battle is where the real trick is.
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  #69  
Old 3 July 2016, 12:27
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Found one Krav outfit that seems reputable here in PHX.
Will attend demo class and see what the "gut check" says.

http://reactdefense.com/wp/krav-maga/
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  #70  
Old 16 July 2016, 17:46
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I grew up in a less than normal household where 90% of the guys in my family did hard time and one thing I was told at a young age is that if you really want to learn how to fight and defend yourself is to learn from either a biker (a real 1%er, not a member of your local HOG Chapter) or a convict. Those two groups of guys can tell you what can save your ass (literally in the cons case) and what will get you killed. My old man told me when he was locked up that many of the shopping center school black belts that showed up in the prison he was at either got seriously tuned up or turned out. Just my 2 cents.
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  #71  
Old 16 July 2016, 21:34
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Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
I crashed my bicycle as a kid one time and got "dim mak"-ed in the solar-plexis. I couldn't breath well for maybe 3-4 minutes. We also did some of this in old-school Japanese Jiu-Jitsu (part of our advanced Judo instruction).

Here is what I believe is the scientific explanation:


Most of us who've played contact sports of any kind have experienced this to some degree.
The krav course I did after the military addressed this inherent weakness directly. Since they had 3 months to turn us into something resembling dangerous, and you can only learn so much technique, or improve reflexes so much, in 3 months, they spent a lot of time hardening our bodies (which they CAN do more successfully in 3 months). In addition to all the technique and fighting stuff, we spent hours being strategically beat in various ways, all with the goal of toughening up, and passing the point where being hit mattered. Examples:

Standing blindfolded in a line, hands behind our backs. Instructors pick a guy at random, and muay thai kick/punch him in the quad, shin, side, or solar plexus. The second they hit your solar plexus, you had to draw a training gun, aim at the target across from you, and pull the trigger. The apprehension of listening to the mayhem as it moved around the line was irritating.

Pick a partner, put on a 2in thick foam vest, and stand on opposite sides of the floor. When they whistle, run at your partner as hard as you can, and his job is to stop you by front kicking you in the solar plexus. If you hesitate even slightly before impact, you're knocked the fuck out dim mak style. If you speed up, you can avoid his full extension, which is much better, takes a while to figure that out.

Every week we went home for a day, but before we did, we had a 'test'. First week, everyone had to put one boxing glove on, and pair up, face each other, then hit the partner in the solar plexus as hard as you can. Of course we all pulled our punches, but they made us do it until every guy was dropped. Each week they upped the ante. The last one I remember was wearing the vest, and having two guys grab the armholes from behind, one guy grabbing the armholes in the front. My job was to start at one end of the gym/basketball court, and pull the two guys to the other side, while their job was to stop me. The third guy? He was kneeing me in the stomach as hard and fast as he could the whole time.


We did hours of that shit. End result? You better do physical, mechanical damage, like take out a knee, headshot, etc, because otherwise nothing really phased us. It was pretty cool, but I'm not kidding when I say those three months were awful. It sucked.


As an aside, they gave us reams of shin bet case files to read at night, all the attacks and incidents that related to our job. The ones containing violence against the officers had a common theme: shot multiple times, took grenade shrapnel, stabbed, bludgeoned, but did not stop until the threat was neutralized, or they were killed themselves. Many did not have any recollection in debriefing for hours after. Really interesting stuff. I'm sure there are technically better counterparts around the world, but I doubt many are tougher.
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  #72  
Old 17 July 2016, 09:54
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Impact conditioning is fundamental to any good system...and one of the reasons I like old school systems like judo, boxing and MT. Physical conditioning is up there as well. For both, the trick is doing them smartly. And the definition of smart changes as we age.
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  #73  
Old 17 July 2016, 16:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison View Post
your post...
Great post, I try to learn a lot from other's experiences (wherever possible!).
Those case files would be eye openers, for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Corporate Guy View Post
Impact conditioning is fundamental to any good system...and one of the reasons I like old school systems like judo, boxing and MT. Physical conditioning is up there as well. For both, the trick is doing them smartly. And the definition of smart changes as we age.
Exactly!

After Poison's previous State Farm post, I was considering Judo again...but I think I am to old and slow to not get taken down in the process. Just like my cardio has become more "interval training" than pure running. (not a bad thing, really). Down from 235lb to 185lb in the last year. And lifting more (weighted squats, etc). That and more potassium (green foods) and vitC/B's seem to help reduce the stress (of slow death by cubicle). Trying to "play smarter". Something to do with hormones at age 55!

Last edited by Tycon; 17 July 2016 at 16:29.
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  #74  
Old 18 July 2016, 02:12
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Originally Posted by The Corporate Guy View Post
There is no best martial art. Go and try out a bunch of local schools until you find one that you like. Then train hard.
Make this a sticky.

Delete all other threads / posts.

Lock Topic.



No seriously, every Martial Art, Instructor and Dojo has a "personality" you just have to find the one that matches yours.

Last edited by Crna; 18 July 2016 at 02:18.
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  #75  
Old 18 July 2016, 06:58
SpudWrench SpudWrench is offline
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Thanks for your valuable insight.

Threads like this help, when the search function is used properly.
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  #76  
Old 18 July 2016, 13:21
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https://youtu.be/e9lUygdDUW4

Euro Krav video. I don't like everything in it, but whatever.
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  #77  
Old 18 July 2016, 18:24
SpudWrench SpudWrench is offline
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Good video - looks a lot like what we do, except for the very begging and the very end of every encounter.
In our classes, there is no shoving match; hands on = game on.
Also, we don't break contact while the opponent is still lucid.
Aside from the KM standard multiple jabs and knees, it all looks pretty similar.
I like the way they set up some creative scenarios, especially the motorcycle jacking. Being a rider, I actually worry about that one, because you're FOV is so limited when wearing a helmet. If I were to get caught out at a stoplight, I'd probably lose my bike or worse.
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  #78  
Old 18 July 2016, 19:31
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Continuing until the threat is unconscious or dead isn't always a good option. For example, for a woman in a populated place; why maintain proximity, and risk catching one across the jaw, or being entangled somehow, when you can groin kick/trip/shove and run quickjly to safety and help? What if you stay to finish him, not realizing he has a buddy who now closes and attacks unexpectedly, when you could have throatpunched and ran?

Civvie krav is about survival, not taking people out.
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  #79  
Old 18 July 2016, 19:34
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Civvie krav is about survival, not taking people out.
Yep...in the martial arts forces continuum...self-defense is at the far left while combative is at the far right. Believe it or not, in our litigious society...that makes a difference.
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  #80  
Old 18 July 2016, 20:54
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Absolutely. And it's a mission statement issue. With self defense the mission is for you to stay alive, at all costs. Other mission statements may be to take someone out, or protect others, in which case you'll do so at all costs, even to yourself. The two missing statements may diverge fairly early on in a fight. But hey, if you are seriously attacked, and get the mission statement confused, and end up with a dead dude, well.....better judged by blah blah...
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