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  #141  
Old 19 July 2018, 09:48
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Originally Posted by MikeC2W View Post
So the debate: I was telling a pal that doing the old school weights and workout is fucking awesome. I can definitely see some gains BUT even cooler is it's such a throw back to days of badassery.

His response: Yeah, I can get the same from just doing pushups.
There's no debate. Muscle is composed of 3 different types of muscle fibers (1 slow and 2 fast) but can be generalized into just slow and fast. Slow-twitch fibers can be generalized as 'Endurance' fibers, and Fast-twitch fibers as 'Strength/Power' fibers.

Pushups primarily hit the endurance fibers - you have a really light weight (your body weight minus whatever % the feet are taking) and you are doing very high repetitions. This can not stimulate the fast twitch fibers except for very new trainees that experience a novel stimulus. Even if you are morbidly fat, as you lose fat, you are actually DE-creasing the load in that movement. You obviously can improve on pushups, but you are just increasing the resistance to fatigue, not the amount of force your pecs (and tri's/delts) produce.

You need progressive overload (increasing weight) to gain muscle size (hypertrophy) and strength (beyond CNS adaptation). Now, you *could* do that with the pushup if it wasn't such a hard exercise to load - because weighted pullups/chinups *do* increase size and strength... but getting enough weight on your back (which, because of the feet taking load, requires A LOT more than with pulls/chins) is almost impossible.

Then there's the obvious - if what he says is correct, people would just do pushups and be winning competitions. His Calves do thousands of repetitions per day, ask him how much bigger they are since... he was 18?

But body-weight stuff is awesome - DO IT ALL. And you can most certainly be wicked ass fit and look wicked ass awesome doing a wide variety of body weight stuff, so if you don't care about (as much) size/strength, you'll still get a little bigger and a little stronger - everyone has their own personal goals.

Last edited by Polypro; 19 July 2018 at 09:54.
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  #142  
Old 19 July 2018, 10:12
Durable Durable is offline
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Poly,
Fantastic, great explanation. For me I find that doing push-ups is great all day. When I do "heavy" lifts I follow up every set within 3 minutes with "speed" exercises, jumping jacks, double ended punching bag, anything to change from the heavy lift to a more functional, (for my lifestyle), movement. Age 58, moderately broken.
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  #143  
Old 19 July 2018, 11:08
Gsniper Gsniper is offline
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moderately broken
That's most of us at this point. With two shot knees and a jacked up back I have no intention of carrying around a set of 25" guns. I'm just adding stamina and dropping lard.
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  #144  
Old 19 July 2018, 11:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
There's no debate. Muscle is composed of 3 different types of muscle fibers (1 slow and 2 fast) but can be generalized into just slow and fast. Slow-twitch fibers can be generalized as 'Endurance' fibers, and Fast-twitch fibers as 'Strength/Power' fibers.

Pushups primarily hit the endurance fibers - you have a really light weight (your body weight minus whatever % the feet are taking) and you are doing very high repetitions. This can not stimulate the fast twitch fibers except for very new trainees that experience a novel stimulus. Even if you are morbidly fat, as you lose fat, you are actually DE-creasing the load in that movement. You obviously can improve on pushups, but you are just increasing the resistance to fatigue, not the amount of force your pecs (and tri's/delts) produce.

You need progressive overload (increasing weight) to gain muscle size (hypertrophy) and strength (beyond CNS adaptation). Now, you *could* do that with the pushup if it wasn't such a hard exercise to load - because weighted pullups/chinups *do* increase size and strength... but getting enough weight on your back (which, because of the feet taking load, requires A LOT more than with pulls/chins) is almost impossible.

Then there's the obvious - if what he says is correct, people would just do pushups and be winning competitions. His Calves do thousands of repetitions per day, ask him how much bigger they are since... he was 18?

But body-weight stuff is awesome - DO IT ALL. And you can most certainly be wicked ass fit and look wicked ass awesome doing a wide variety of body weight stuff, so if you don't care about (as much) size/strength, you'll still get a little bigger and a little stronger - everyone has their own personal goals.
Fucking BINGO. This guy is just a total windbag contrarian, kind of a pain in the ass about these things.

Thank you.
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  #145  
Old 27 July 2018, 14:06
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Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Resistance training is the #1 best thing you can do for Insulin Sensitivity - Metformin is a last resort
I've run a little self test on this the past few weeks. With the limited data I have collected you are 100% correct.

The way my schedule is I do my workouts at night. I test my blood sugar every morning. My diet and levels of physical activity during the day is very consistent.
Average blood sugar following rest or light lifting day is 108-110 the next morning. Following a heavy for me workout it is 98-100.
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  #146  
Old 27 July 2018, 15:41
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Originally Posted by pondwater View Post
I've run a little self test on this the past few weeks. With the limited data I have collected you are 100% correct.

The way my schedule is I do my workouts at night. I test my blood sugar every morning. My diet and levels of physical activity during the day is very consistent.
Average blood sugar following rest or light lifting day is 108-110 the next morning. Following a heavy for me workout it is 98-100.
That's cool. Also, there is something called "Dawn Effect", where the Liver, via Glucagon from the Pancreas, releases blood glucose (glycogen) on it's own, in the morning. Morning readings, even fasted after sleep, can be high because of it. HbA1c is always the best tracking metric, but you may want to check blood glucose ~3-4 hours after your breakfast and see what it is - it might be even lower than the AM reading.

And... the more muscle you build, the more receptors to receive that glucose! Weights (Hypertrophy) RULEZzzzzzz!!!!

GLUT4 nerdery: https://www.google.com/search?ei=wXR....0.ToewClcUc94
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  #147  
Old 3 November 2018, 07:04
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KimberChick KimberChick is online now
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Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Start here as a baseline (I just used the first Google result for 'TDEE Calculator' - there are tons, and apps too - use what you like)

https://tdeecalculator.net/result.ph...70&act=1.2&f=1

I assumed mid-30's, change accordingly. Also adjust activity level if needed, from Sedentary.

Get a food tracking app and learn to use it and track everything. "Intuitive Eating" is F'ng BS - most of the American population "intuitively eats" - they're called the "Obesity Epidemic".

This is a very rough starting point only - you're scale, and especially a cloth tape measure barely denting the skin around your gut, will be how you dial it in.

You are 93kg. I personally would adjust my macros as 2g/kg Protein, 0.5-1g/kg Fat, and the rest Carbs, up to your kcal limit. To lose fat, you need to eat 500-1000kcals UNDER your TDEE. Go as low as you can stand without cheating on it. Even a couple hundred under will still drop fat - it will just take longer.

Shoot for 1-2lbs loss on the scale per week and smaller circles around your gut with the tape. Always weigh and measure on the same day/time and same condition (before food and after the bathroom is good).

Running... LOL, you want to look like a Kenyan? Cardio is for your heart (muy importante), but it doesn't really "burn" a lot of fat while you are doing it. The increased metabolic rate from it (and lifting heavy ass weights!!!) is what contributes to the negative energy balance (combined with your caloric deficit) for the other 22hrs of the day. Walk briskly for 45min EVERY DAY - that'll do it. Or hop on a non-impact machine. Hit a heavy bag as fast as you can for 15 seconds and rest 45 - repeat (called HIIT) - will smoke your bags. Get creative.

You need to lift weights, period. Find a $10/month gym chain close by. You can start off with bodyweight stuff, but eventually you'll have to hit the metal. Muscle tissue is what uses the fat for energy - the more you have, the better.

Exercises and how you program them is another topic.

Bottom line is it takes time - you didn't put on that 25 overnight, it ain't coming off overnight either. Doing the above, it will take 12-24 (3-6months) weeks to lose that 25. And don't look "too" much at the scale - resistance training will add weight, while the fat loss is occurring - worry more about the tape measure and the mirror and how clothes fit - especially Jeans.

At my worst, I couldn't button these 44" shorts. 34's are loose currently.
Thanks for that! It is a good wake up for those of older folks who have gotten dfinitively lazy.
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  #148  
Old 3 November 2018, 07:45
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Originally Posted by MikeC2W View Post
Fucking BINGO. This guy is just a total windbag contrarian, kind of a pain in the ass about these things.

Thank you.
I'm not an either or person, but I think for most "older" folk, especially those juat gettting back into it, BW is the way to go initially. It's not like someone is going to do 100 reps of everything right out rhe gate. Years of detraining don't disappear overnight, plus there are many rep schemes that work and will keep you from just adding reps as a progression scheme.

You can also do it at home which will give you less excuses to skip going to the gym while you redevelop the exercise habit.

IMO, it's relatively easy to add resistance to pushups. Buy a weight vest and a couple chains.

Additionally, I see posts about needing to use weight to be strong, yet most get pinned with 230 on the bench or stapled to the floor with less in the squat, while saying pushups and other bodyweight isn't optimum.

I agree with Poly that its all about goals, but if you can't do a routine of pushups, dips, pullups, squats, lunges etc, you probably should work on it before becoming a born again steel jacker. Your body will thank you.
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  #149  
Old 3 November 2018, 08:17
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Originally Posted by Silverbullet View Post
...You can also do it at home which will give you less excuses to skip going to the gym while you redevelop the exercise habit..AND..needing to use weight to be strong....
No doubt. Building out my garage gym changed the game for me a couple of years ago. Put in pipe pull up bar, light and heavy kettle bells, weight vest, home made box, and some others. I get steel helps push strength to another level, but I was pleasantly surprised when I did bench and deadlift after not touching the exercises for two years and was still close to or stronger than a friend that primarily does traditional weights. Being able to move your own body weight, plus vest as prescribed, will definitely increase real strength.
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  #150  
Old 3 November 2018, 08:42
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I agree too that bodyweight exercises are great! There are a ton of bodyweight exercises out there that are tough as hell!
https://www.t-nation.com/training/all-muscle-no-iron
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