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  #21  
Old 15 December 2019, 22:31
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Well, I'm a 30 year criminal defense attorney in Tennessee, so let me reassure you (and her).

1 - He will be on the Sexual Offender Registry for Life. That means he -- and his passport -- and his driver's license -- will be marked to indicate that he is a sexual offender.

2 - He will have to register, regularly, and his name, address, email accounts, automobile registrations, employment, damn near everything about him will be public knowledge and subject to monitoring.

3 - He may, at least for the first few months after release from the Department, be required to wear a GPS tracker that will monitor his whereabouts 24/7.

4 - He will be limited as to where he may reside, where he may work, where he may drive, walk, jog, play and workout.

If there is two things that you may assure your ward:

a - The rest of his life will be a living hell that he can NEVER overcome. She can move on, but he never can "get it behind him." What happened in the past does not define her anymore than a person should spend the rest of their life defining their life by being on the airplane that CPT Scully ditched in the Hudson. Sure, it's a part of history, but it is not her sole history.

b - If it is any assurance, I have NEVER, EVER, had a sex offender who was released into the community, whether on probation, parole, or full expiration but on the registry, make attempt to contact their victim. She is now an adult, and with or without martial arts or firearms, she has the independent presence of mind to tell any perp "got the hell out of my sight" whereupon they will run away, because the last thing a perp will confront is an assured self confident woman. Remember, his target was a 7 year old child, and that's not her anymore.
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  #22  
Old 15 December 2019, 23:15
Copecwby20 Copecwby20 is offline
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She has been made aware of this thread and is reading as a guest.

Your words/advice are doing a lot to help settle her mind a bit. Thank you for the words gents.
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  #23  
Old 16 December 2019, 07:52
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Originally Posted by Copecwby20 View Post
She has been made aware of this thread and is reading as a guest.

Your words/advice are doing a lot to help settle her mind a bit. Thank you for the words gents.
Well good. I hope CB’s post is reassuring to her that this predator won’t go near her. Best of luck to the young lady and I hope she can continue daily life without fear.

I have 5 Granddaughters. I hope that I can stay out of prison before I die. The odds are not in my favor.
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  #24  
Old 16 December 2019, 10:18
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
I teach martial arts. But, in her case learning a traditional martial arts takes time. Instead contact a martial arts instructor who would be open to several private or short sessions where she learn later more of the “martial” aspect rather than the “art” aspect. Several lessons on some basic aggressive moves and learning situational awareness.

As have said before, learning to fight - deploying your fighting skills whether it be unarmed combat, knife, asp, pepper spray or firearm is reactionary. Meaning an attack as already started and you are already on the losing end. Best to deter an attack. Of course this means situational awareness. But one thing that definitely works - a big dog. Think German Shepard, Rottweiler, Euro Boxer, Doberman, etc. Dogs will protect, alert and deter.

There is smoking hot, Tier One model type, I frequently see jogging in the park I go to - she has a wolfhound. There is not any man coming within 25 meters of her.
I'm with LP here. I've been doing this stuff for nearly 40 years, and I teach now. Stay a LONG way away from "systems" that purport to teach self defense in a scenario style. IE, Krav Maga as it's taught in the States...

For short order learning that will actually work:
Like LP said, private training at a minimum. I rigorously recommend Muay Thai because it is the epitome of keep it simple, and yet it is brutal in use. Easy and fast learn, but a lifetime learning opportunity to make it individualized. She could learn the entire art in a few months, and enough to fend a guy off in a few weeks. That first sparring session is going to change her world.

Despite what she endured, a BJJ class to supplement the MT would be amazing and very empowering because it is the exact way a woman could be attacked, taking the worst possible position, and turning it into a weapon against her attacker, who'd likely have no idea how to respond.

I've taught some post sex assault classes for women who've chosen to power through their ordeal that way. And the empowerment that they come away with when they simply gain some knowledge that enables them to realize that they can be powerful changes everything. It is a hard road, but if she's got the wherewithal, it could be a gift to her.
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  #25  
Old 16 December 2019, 11:42
DaveP DaveP is offline
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Good post, chokeu2.

DaveP
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  #26  
Old 17 December 2019, 19:04
Steve509 Steve509 is offline
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Another reason I stress a Doberman or German Shepard as a companion. Not only a good deterrent, good companion and Not only will she sleep better, but the dog is already wired and willing to protect if the need arises.


Train a young lady in some self defense skills, including firearms - but if she was my loved one I would sleep better as well knowing she had a big dog with her, rather than just Mr Glock or a Black Belt.
That was my first thought too. A great big dog. A trained one if she can afford it.

Also, she needs to make sure she is kept in the loop in regards to his whereabouts.
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  #27  
Old 18 December 2019, 14:43
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Something not mentioned here is education on her social media presence.

So many young people put everything out on FB, Twitter, SnapChat, Instagram, etc. Locking down her accounts and not announcing when and where she will be, has been, or wants to go will make it more difficult for any type of cyber-stalking or plan to contact her.

It is best to be proactive in this case, rather than let threatening or creepy messages through.
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  #28  
Old 18 December 2019, 15:13
schibbs schibbs is offline
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I agree with the dog , realizing a well trained dog with protective breeding is a huge responsibility in itself and it does not necessarily have to be a big dog. My one niece has two medium sized dogs, one is very protective and I can't remember the breed. Delivery drivers and mailmen refuse to deliver to their farmhouse, (the dogs do not run wild) so they deliver to the farm here at my sister's house. Anyhoo, am terribly sorry this young lady has to endure this nightmare and pray she can lead the rest of her life without fear.
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  #29  
Old 21 December 2019, 23:48
Kouta Kouta is offline
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Originally Posted by chokeu2 View Post
I'm with LP here. I've been doing this stuff for nearly 40 years, and I teach now. Stay a LONG way away from "systems" that purport to teach self defense in a scenario style. IE, Krav Maga as it's taught in the States...

For short order learning that will actually work:
Like LP said, private training at a minimum. I rigorously recommend Muay Thai because it is the epitome of keep it simple, and yet it is brutal in use. Easy and fast learn, but a lifetime learning opportunity to make it individualized. She could learn the entire art in a few months, and enough to fend a guy off in a few weeks. That first sparring session is going to change her world.

Despite what she endured, a BJJ class to supplement the MT would be amazing and very empowering because it is the exact way a woman could be attacked, taking the worst possible position, and turning it into a weapon against her attacker, who'd likely have no idea how to respond.

I've taught some post sex assault classes for women who've chosen to power through their ordeal that way. And the empowerment that they come away with when they simply gain some knowledge that enables them to realize that they can be powerful changes everything. It is a hard road, but if she's got the wherewithal, it could be a gift to her.
Respectfully, I disagree with most of what you said here, though I see where you're coming from.

Considering the context here, i.e., her situation, I would recommend "scenario-based" martial arts, like Krav Maga. What she needs most is confidence. Not freezing, doing something, fighting back, that's likely to be enough. It's the most important thing. Krav Maga should give her the confidence, and also teach her the basics of escaping from usual holds that men will use against women, and teach her the basics of striking and, to a lesser extent, grappling.

In addition to the fact that not freezing is really important, the thing is, she is very unlikely to be attacked by this man again. That's another reason a martial art that gives her confidence in herself is good: her biggest threat is probably going to be her fear, not the rapist. The fear is going to cripple her and cause her pain, whether the attack comes or not.

Muay Thai is a great art, but I would not recommend it for self-defense for women. It teaches them to "fight like a man." It's the greatest disservice you can do to a woman, and sadly, it's what most self-defense courses do as well. Because not many women want to know, or learn, what it really takes to defend themselves against someone who is vastly stronger and willing to hurt them. Screaming, scratching, biting, spitting, biting, gouging. It's ugly, but it works.

Trying to (thai) box with a man will go badly for the vast, vast majority of women, even if they've trained for a long time. This applies tenfold to someone who is a beginner and probably years (if they ever will) from being able to develop enough power output to legitimately hurt a guy with MT techniques in a stressful, possibly cramped self-defense situation. Muay Thai also does not teach escapes or the like, or try to prepare you mentally for self-defense.

Also, she's going to suck at first. She's going to see just how much she sucks because there'll be sparring. There's no "ifs" or "buts", there -- she'll be using her entire MT arsenal in those spars, and will see that men with no technique will still easily overpower her. What's that going to do her confidence?

It's the same reason I don't think BJJ is a good fit, here. Normally I'd recommend it... if there's no concrete threat, and no specific time frame where it might be needed. But again... it's going to destroy her confidence. It's going to be, probably - at least -, years before she can hope to handle men who are complete beginners but have double or triple her upper body strength and can effortlessly power out of any submission attempt. She's going to experience that on the mat. The men who are beginners will dominate her and make her feel completely helpless. The experienced men and women will be even worse. It takes a certain kind of personality to be able to handle that kind of humiliation and keep going in the first place, not everyone's cut out for it, and for her situation, I think it's far from ideal. I don't think it'd be empowering at all, on the contrary, in the short term at least.

And anyway, a decent Krav Maga place will teach her pretty much all the grappling she's likely to need/use in a self-defense situation. She's not going to be rolling with an attacker for minutes, she's going to want to lock the attacker down, break his posture, and then do what I mentioned above -- scream like a harpy, gouge eyes, mouth, ears, bite, headbutt, spit... then get away. You don't need to know much to enable that.

Not that I think KM is some kind of an ideal art for self-defense, I think it sells "heroic stories" a bit too much like almost every other scenario-based art, and isn't focused enough on the "quick, dirty, brutal, loud" thing because it's not sexy, but I do think it's pretty much her best bet for her needs. Well, if she's looking for a martial art, anyway. I agree with others here that a dog would actually be by far the best thing she could get.

IMO and IME, anyway; you've clearly had different experiences.
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  #30  
Old 22 December 2019, 12:16
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Brother, I appreciate your post very much. But after doing this stuff for 40 years, and having worked with law enforcement, military, and very experienced martial artists all over the world, and having traveled to fuel my love of the arts, I've experienced most of what the world has to offer insofar as what works and what does not.

KM is a good military art when you need to teach a large group of people quickly for the typical scenarios that occur in a hand to hand situation.

It teaches scenarios. it is the epitome of if "bad guy does this", "defender does this". It rarely works out like scenario's, and when you teach scenarios, it limits instincts, and puts a person on a track where they are most likely to freeze because they do not know what to do when the fight does not follow a scenario.

You mentioned that KM teaches the most likely holds that a man will use. That's great, but it's also limiting, because no one can predict what an attacker is going to do.

I've focused on Muay Thai, BJJ, and the Filipino arts because they are, hands down, the most realistic arts that covers all facets of fighting. Let's start with Muay Thai: The entire art can be learned in a few months, and after that, the student makes it "theirs". Meaning, how they stand, throw a punch, what combinations they like to use; the mind and body gets stronger. The MT student gets an entire catalog of moves that they will have learned to put to use via instincts, training, repetition and actual sparring. And again, MT training absolutely solidifies a strong mind and body. KM does none of that to any real degree outside of scenarios. I'll say this, as it's taught in most places, it is only good as a military art that trains large groups. I've trained it in Israel, and while the moves are brutal, they are simply too limiting because they are just a scenario.

BJJ, I have to question your exposure to BJJ (and Muay Thai) because you have unfortunately completely mis-characterized both arts. If you had a lot of exposure to BJJ you would understand that while it is a ground fighting art, it also teaches you how to stay off the ground, control the ground, or avoid a confrontation altogether via stand up grappling components.

You talk about "freezing" up. That is FAR more likely when one is merely trained in KM, again, because it is scenario based. Once a person hits the limits of their scenario training, that is when they freeze. BJJ and Muay Thai put people in the arena, learning, then putting it to use on fully resisting opponents, a LOT. KM does not do that. Most KM people that I argue with (they typically argue and get defensive because of the marketing material they've read and they're drinking the confirmation bias kool-aid), resort to the "well, KM can't spar because it's too lethal/deadly/nasty, etc". The reality is that when people use that argument they think that people who take more of a fully resisting MMA approach can't use the same nasty moves that KM has. The reality is that people who take the MMA approach can apply those nasty things more consistently, and at will because they've trained on their feet, on the ground, and sparred hard. It hones the mind, the instincts, the knowledge as to what works and what does not work for the student. KM locks a student into a scenario based mindset with little real individualization.

I have to take real exception with the statement that Muay Thai is not a good art for women... Bro... With all due respect, how long have you trained? And have you trained Muay Thai? I have to ask because what you said could not be more untrue. Muay Thai does not teach anyone to fight "like a man" at all. It conditions the mind, body, and instincts, what you're advocating does none of that to any real degree. I started teaching MT to my daughter when she was four years old. (and BJJ) And she's had some of her "black belt" friends come over to the house and those little black belts wanted to show off, because my daughter does not have a black belt... Not one time did any of those little black belts ever put her in a position where she was at risk of losing the sparring match, ever. In fact, one of them, had a KM "black belt", and she got her ass handed to her. That little girl got up, started having a tantrum, and screaming "but I'm a black belt and she's not". Imagine a blond shirley temple losing her shit, and you can imagine the tantrum. My daughter is 14 now, and would have been too much to handle even after the first couple weeks of training for any kid her age at any time. Now... she's as cute and feminine as a girl can be, she won't tell anyone that she trains any kind of martial arts, and she at 14, can say with full confidence that she "can handle" herself. And she can.

Take what I just said about Muay Thai, and apply it to BJJ. You could not find a better art for a woman to know. If for no other reason than where does a man land when he attacks a woman. No other art in the world can quickly show a woman what to do when a man gets a woman to the ground. In the first class, a woman learns exactly what to do to either end the attack via submission, or simply being able to remove herself from the ground, and un-tangle herself from a dude that is laying hands on her. The first class. And again, she tests it against a fully resisting opponent.

Finally, I've taught rape crisis seminars, and post rape classes. The empowerment that these women get from these types of arts, and style of training is second to none.

I try not to put any "this style is better than that style" religion into my POV for the martial arts, but when you've done it all for nearly 40 years, one tends to learn what works for real, and without bias.

Thank you for such an excellent post, I would welcome it to continue, especially if we continue to disagree. That's where the learning opportunities for all sides resides.

Here's the thing... I don't admit to this often, but I was actually in a Krav Maga training video that is, to this day, still available on BJJ Fanatics. When I say I've studied lots of arts, I meant it. I got into them as if I was going to focus on them, and that is exactly how I've weeded out what seems to work best for me, and on a larger general scale. And in that Krav Maga video, I got so banged up from the shooting that I needed to go to the hospital to get checked out. I'm not even kidding. But again, scenarios... you learn cool stuff, but it is not instinctual at the individual level.
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Last edited by chokeu2; 22 December 2019 at 12:25.
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  #31  
Old 22 December 2019, 17:19
Kouta Kouta is offline
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It teaches scenarios. it is the epitome of if "bad guy does this", "defender does this". It rarely works out like scenario's, and when you teach scenarios, it limits instincts, and puts a person on a track where they are most likely to freeze because they do not know what to do when the fight does not follow a scenario.
Scenarios have their weaknesses, but they're also the simplest and fastest ways to teach someone how to deal with some of the most common situations that come up. I don't think they limit instinct. You can think of them as sentences in English, or a calculation in mathematics. Yes, a scenario is a very specific thing, just like a sentence is in English, or a calculation in mathematics, but they're teaching you how to apply the concepts in different contexts. After you're experienced enough, and understand the concepts underneath, you can start making your own sentences, calculations and "scenarios" (as in, anything that happens, you have the ability to answer to on the fly, applying the fundamentals the scenarios have taught you how to use.)

Like anything, you can train them well, or you can train them badly. If you only train unrealistic scenarios where, each time, something very predictable happens, and the defender always strikes a heroic pose after easily vanquishing his opponent, yes, that's not going to be good practice. But it doesn't have to be so. You can -- and should -- add aliveness, for instance. Ideally, they are also just one of the tools in your toolbox. They should not be the only thing you are training, and in good KM schools, they are not. Good KM schools also do sparring, etc.

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You mentioned that KM teaches the most likely holds that a man will use. That's great, but it's also limiting, because no one can predict what an attacker is going to do.
No, but it is a probability game. Given limited time, you want to focus on learning how to defend against the most common forms of attack you're likely to face. There are also only so many ways someone can realistically come at you, and, with women, most of those ways will include grabbing of some sort.

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Let's start with Muay Thai: The entire art can be learned in a few months, and after that, the student makes it "theirs". Meaning, how they stand, throw a punch, what combinations they like to use; the mind and body gets stronger. The MT student gets an entire catalog of moves that they will have learned to put to use via instincts, training, repetition and actual sparring. And again, MT training absolutely solidifies a strong mind and body. KM does none of that to any real degree outside of scenarios. I'll say this, as it's taught in most places, it is only good as a military art that trains large groups. I've trained it in Israel, and while the moves are brutal, they are simply too limiting because they are just a scenario.
Yes, you can learn the theory of the techniques in just a few months. That doesn't mean a woman will necessarily ever be good enough, or strong enough, to use it against a strong man intent on harming her. Muay Thai is a combat sport, intended for the ring. That limits the techniques that are taught, and outright rules out the techniques that are the most important for women to learn -- because those techniques are too brutal and damaging for a sport. As for Krav Maga, it's the same as with anything: finding a good school/gym is the most important thing. A good KM place will attempt to harden the students with sparring and aliveness training.

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BJJ, I have to question your exposure to BJJ (and Muay Thai) because you have unfortunately completely mis-characterized both arts. If you had a lot of exposure to BJJ you would understand that while it is a ground fighting art, it also teaches you how to stay off the ground, control the ground, or avoid a confrontation altogether via stand up grappling components.
I've not mis-characterized either art -- BJJ is not solely focused on ground fighting, yes, but that is where the vast majority of the time is spent in the vast majority of gyms, because of culture and because in competition, pulling guard is safe and easy, allowing you to ignore the stand up component entirely. It's already an art that takes a long time to get competent at, ESPECIALLY if speaking relative to men when you're a woman and at a huge strength and weight disadvantage to begin with. And that's just the ground, which is the focus. A lot of great grapplers never attain more than a passing competence with the stand up portion of BJJ, and they've been training for many years.

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You talk about "freezing" up. That is FAR more likely when one is merely trained in KM, again, because it is scenario based. Once a person hits the limits of their scenario training, that is when they freeze. BJJ and Muay Thai put people in the arena, learning, then putting it to use on fully resisting opponents, a LOT. KM does not do that. Most KM people that I argue with (they typically argue and get defensive because of the marketing material they've read and they're drinking the confirmation bias kool-aid), resort to the "well, KM can't spar because it's too lethal/deadly/nasty, etc".
Absolutely. If you never spar, never do real aliveness training, you are not prepared for the physicality and violence of a real altercation, so you'll probably freeze. But like I've mentioned before, this isn't a fault with the system, it's a fault with the place it's taught at. KM can and should include both. It should not be just trained as simple scenarios with predetermined winners. You can't use a lot of the KM techniques in sparring, but that doesn't mean you can't box in a KM class to get acquainted with how punching and getting punched feels like.

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The reality is that when people use that argument they think that people who take more of a fully resisting MMA approach can't use the same nasty moves that KM has. The reality is that people who take the MMA approach can apply those nasty things more consistently, and at will because they've trained on their feet, on the ground, and sparred hard.
You fight how you train. Especially when you're new to the game and not at ease in a fight, and maybe have no natural talent or inclination in that arena. Yeah, the MMA guy is way better equipped to apply all that nastiness -- but if he's never trained it, and he's going to be fighting on instinct, will he? Way less likely than someone whose entire training is based on nastiness applying those dirty tricks.

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I have to take real exception with the statement that Muay Thai is not a good art for women... Bro... With all due respect, how long have you trained? And have you trained Muay Thai? I have to ask because what you said could not be more untrue. Muay Thai does not teach anyone to fight "like a man" at all. It conditions the mind, body, and instincts, what you're advocating does none of that to any real degree. I started teaching MT to my daughter when she was four years old. (and BJJ) And she's had some of her "black belt" friends come over to the house and those little black belts wanted to show off, because my daughter does not have a black belt... Not one time did any of those little black belts ever put her in a position where she was at risk of losing the sparring match, ever. In fact, one of them, had a KM "black belt", and she got her ass handed to her. That little girl got up, started having a tantrum, and screaming "but I'm a black belt and she's not". Imagine a blond shirley temple losing her shit, and you can imagine the tantrum. My daughter is 14 now, and would have been too much to handle even after the first couple weeks of training for any kid her age at any time. Now... she's as cute and feminine as a girl can be, she won't tell anyone that she trains any kind of martial arts, and she at 14, can say with full confidence that she "can handle" herself. And she can.
Honestly, I don't see how this is related to what I said -- yeah, I have no doubt your daughter wipes the floor with other girls who have black belts from a McDojo. But those are girls. I would never teach a woman to square up with a man who is bigger and way stronger. I would never teach her to throw punches at the face and throw leg kicks, etc. That's "fighting like a man." It's unlikely to go over well because of the biological differences between the sexes. Even for men, that way of fighting, while it can definitely be effective even in self-defense, is more like cock-fighting to determine who the alpha is, than actual fight-to-the-death stuff. Muay Thai, and all combat sports, also teach the rhythm and pacing of its respective sport, which is very different from the 0-to-100 of real scenarios, which are over fast and have little in common with a fair fight inside a ring that takes tens of minutes.

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Take what I just said about Muay Thai, and apply it to BJJ. You could not find a better art for a woman to know. If for no other reason than where does a man land when he attacks a woman. No other art in the world can quickly show a woman what to do when a man gets a woman to the ground. In the first class, a woman learns exactly what to do to either end the attack via submission, or simply being able to remove herself from the ground, and un-tangle herself from a dude that is laying hands on her. The first class. And again, she tests it against a fully resisting opponent.
This is (should be) also true of any self-respecting self-defense class. But the overall theme of your post has a very good point: you should always make sure that, if you choose to practice a self-defense art like KM, your art of choice has sparring and includes training against fully resisting opponents, not just hero(ine) stories where the defender always wins.

The reason I'd recommend a self-defense art to a woman over BJJ is that BJJ does not (in general, there are self-defense focused BJJ gyms out there) teach you the dirty stuff. And the reality is that it takes a whole lot of technique to overcome a significant strength advantage, so you want to rely on it as little as possible. Do the bare minimum to get into a position to do some damage, then get out. For someone like your daughter, it doesn't matter, because you can do the supplemental training yourself, but if a woman has no one in her life to do that for her, then I'd definitely get her in a class that trains that stuff (eye gouges, biting, spitting, etc) rather than just rely on her doing something in a real situation that she has never trained for.

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Finally, I've taught rape crisis seminars, and post rape classes. The empowerment that these women get from these types of arts, and style of training is second to none.
Fair enough, and I'm very glad to hear that. But I would also assume these seminars and classes have been women only, or mostly women, yeah? It's a very different experience from being thrown into a proper BJJ gym, which is more like a shark tank than an empowering experience for anyone, never mind if you already start at a disadvantage by being smaller and weaker than most people there. Many women quit because there aren't enough other women, and they're tired of not being able to do anything, and men just overpowering their technique with brute strength without even trying.

Quote:
I try not to put any "this style is better than that style" religion into my POV for the martial arts, but when you've done it all for nearly 40 years, one tends to learn what works for real, and without bias.
I've done martial arts for more than two decades myself, and I've met and talked with a lot of old timers. I don't think time put in is necessarily a great indicator of how much bias one has; often times it's the opposite, because our opinions and attitudes calcify. I've certainly met people who've been in the game for 40-60 years with completely contradictory opinions! We all have our own biases.

That said, and for the record because it might not necessarily seem like it, I think both Muay Thai and BJJ are excellent arts, and I enjoy both immensely, and I don't really like to train Krav Maga (with the caveat that it, of course, depends on the instructor). I'm not trying to shit on either. If you want to become a great fighter, both, or something very much like them, are necessary.

I just don't think combat sports are necessarily the best solution for a woman in this particular context. Depends on what's available, though. You can't go much wrong with MT/BJJ, regardless of gym. You can go very wrong with a bad Krav Maga instructor.

So here my personal recommendations, in order of importance, would be...

1) Dog
2) Pepper spray
3) Mentality training -- get her to understand that fighting is nasty and sudden and scary and... so on. That she needs to fight like a cornered animal, screaming, scratching, biting. That there are no coolly-in-control Charlie's Angels in real life who strike glorious poses while easily dispatching bad guys.
4) A martial art. Preferably, get someone experienced to train her privately, so that what she learns can be tailored to suit her needs. Failing that, a good self-defense gym that has sparring and teaches mindset and awareness etc. Failing that, a combat sport. Failing that, anything else.

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When I say I've studied lots of arts, I meant it. I got into them as if I was going to focus on them, and that is exactly how I've weeded out what seems to work best for me, and on a larger general scale.
As have I, and my personal experience has been that any art can be great and offer a lot -- it depends more on the instructor than the art. I really like filipino martial arts, for example, but I've come across both horrible and really great stuff under the same art. Only difference was the instructors.

But there are, naturally, common themes and cultures within arts, and you'll almost always find better fighters in MMA gyms than aikido gyms.

Anyway, I don't think we disagree on that much, underneath it all, and I've been highly critical of self-defense arts/gyms myself in the past, and still am, so I'd like to stress again that when I recommend Krav Maga (or equivalent), I mean a *good* place with a good instructor. But those are far more rare than good MT/BJJ places. Especially since real, dirty self-defense is not sexy, and training it properly is unpleasant, and these places are, in the end, businesses that need to sell a certain sexiness, and screaming and biting off noses isn't that.
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  #32  
Old 23 December 2019, 09:25
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grog18b grog18b is offline
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Originally Posted by CB View Post
...
b - If it is any assurance, I have NEVER, EVER, had a sex offender who was released into the community, whether on probation, parole, or full expiration but on the registry, make attempt to contact their victim. ... Remember, his target was a 7 year old child, and that's not her anymore.
As a criminal investigator, I have sat across the table from a lot of these predators. The one thing they all have in common is, they prey on the weak and defenseless. They are also opportunists.

As CB said, she is not in his "target profile" anymore.

Also, you can argue martial arts until you are blue in the face. I teach them too. Martial arts CAN be used for self defense, BUT... what works in any dojo might not work in the real world, with someone who is really intent on hurting or killing you, and is 100lbs heavier than you.

Samuel Colt made the "great equalizer". I highly recommend she acquires one, and the proper training to use it effectively.

In order to do that, first, she has to have the mindset (just like any martial art) to use it. If she is not mentally prepared to use it, nothing will help her. Firearms are not a "tool of threat or intimidation", that is only a side effect that may, in certain circumstances, work. It is a tool of stopping someone from doing something, sometimes permanently.

Next, she needs the range time. Not just paper targets, but shoot and move, moving targets, stress shooting, and such.

Being effective with a firearm is only half skill. The other half is the mental fortitude that goes along with it. Saying that you will not be a victim today and living by that thought process.
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  #33  
Old 23 December 2019, 10:18
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chokeu2 chokeu2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kouta View Post
Your post is excellent
You're right in saying that we likely do not really disagree on most anything, I think that were we differ is in individual exposure to the arts, and combined experiences. They're called arts for a reason after all.

I absolutely see your points, and even agree. Like you, I've been around a lot of this stuff, and definitely know that what works in the gym doesn't always work in the real world. So that's when the people that you train with come in, and are an important part of the equation, even the experience of the instructors is critical (obviously).

I'll selfishly use my kiddo as an example. Yes, female. Obviously weaker than her male peers her age and older. She has the skills to clean the clocks of most of the kids in her training classes. Now, take it to the real world, and while the real world is full of dirty tricks, and if we are going to consider the probabilities of how she could would be attacked, she's got the ability (and would have, even early on) to give enough of a hassle to anyone that wants to give her trouble. Most male attackers are looking for easy prey.

A modicum of violent training, especially when combined with the points that you listed at the end of your post is a helluva formula for pretty much anyone, but especially females.

I love that you raised the point that you fight how you train. Of all places, the people here get that. We definitely agree on that. I have a feeling that our disagreement is a simple difference in exposure. In self defense classes, I teach the things you listed. The self defense classes that my kiddo has been a part of, teach those things. These are SD classes that teach the basics of Muay Thai, BJJ, and situational awareness. I'm not a firearms instructor, but I do advocate people to go learn from one.

Where I'm sure that we agree is that "some training" is better than none.

Thanks again for that post. Great morning reading to get the brain fired up.
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