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  #841  
Old 20 July 2016, 13:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Semp View Post
Then using TCG's logic all members of the Church should forfeit their carry permits.
Logic appears to be escaping you, as do some of the facts.

The Pagans have been the focus of a RICO case. The church has not.

Besides, these are not carry permits being discussed (and NY is not a shall issue state).

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Originally Posted by Semp View Post
...just because the DOJ say something is true does not necessarily make it so. The Director of the FBI said Hillary did nothing to get indicted. How about all the bullshit with Fast & Furious or Benghazi?
False, and really a silly, analogy. Dozens of Pagans have been charged with kidnapping, weapons trafficking, racketeering, robbery, extortion, and conspiracy to commit murder.
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  #842  
Old 20 July 2016, 15:45
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Since this discussion has veered off in to whether the Pagans should be treated with anything less than utter contempt, I'll try to get back to the point I apparently failed to make earlier.

The issue was:

Quote:
Originally posted by SATCOM

How about if merely being a member of a biker organization results in the confiscation of your legally owned weapons? I ask because that just occurred in New York. Would this be an example of a slippery slope?

A New York Police Department Says It’s Illegal to Own Handguns as a Member of a Motorcycle Club
That is the issue. That a police department can arbitrarily confiscate a person's weapon simply because it doesn't like who that person associates with. To me, that is analogous to New Orleans and the confiscation of firearms after Katrina. Those are the types of actions that cause ordinary folks to distrust cops in general.
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  #843  
Old 19 August 2016, 19:47
69harley 69harley is offline
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Over a year later, the feds are involved, nobody has been charged, the DA is being asked to step down, several lawsuits have been filed, etc. But what about all of the vehicles and weapons that were seized. Initial news reports showed many motorcycles and other vehicles being impounded and hundreds of weapons that were seized.

What about those vehicles? My guess is they are sitting in some police impound years rotting away. If the owners get the vehicles back they will have been severely degraded, probably unsafe to operate and their value greatly reduced. If no charges are brought against the owners of the vehicles, do the owners have any recourse? My arm chair logic says that if the owners aren't charged, the agency that seized the vehicles is on the hook for damages to those vehicles that occurred as a result of them being impounded.
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  #844  
Old 19 August 2016, 20:03
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Civil forfeiture law sounds crazy from what I've read on it. That said, apparently they only had 30 days to file a civil asset forfeiture lawsuit and they would "have to definitely tie the property to the commission of a crime." They can apparently file the lawsuit after that date, but if I'm reading this correctly, they would have to return the vehicles to their owners at 30 days.



http://www.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/vehicle-forfeiture-efforts-could-be-lucrative-but-difficult-in-twin/article_117085cd-2edf-57bc-b3b0-09e4cc90dfea.html
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  #845  
Old 9 February 2018, 21:22
bobmueller bobmueller is online now
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This thing keeps churning along. Reason reports that charges against 13 more men have been dropped.

Linking to the Reason piece because they've got a bunch of good links to other stuff besides just the Waco Tribune story.

One of the attorneys in the case called the DA's actions "moral cowardice by an elected official" to avoid damning testimony at a hearing, and said, "...what better definition of a domestic enemy of our Constitution than [DA] Abel Reyna?"

This case has been going on for almost three years now.
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  #846  
Old 10 February 2018, 21:42
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I'm no fan of the biker gangs, but it's clear the police did more of the killing than anybody else. Also, it seems like LE has no problem seizing as it wishes and becoming as big a bully as the criminals it's supposed to protect against.
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  #847  
Old 11 February 2018, 01:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVmedic View Post
I'm no fan of the biker gangs, but it's clear the police did more of the killing than anybody else.
Are we to penalize police (or anyone else) for winning a gunfight?
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  #848  
Old 11 February 2018, 02:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
Are we to penalize police (or anyone else) for winning a gunfight?
Does someone legally qualifying to be shot make it a gun fight?

Please don't misunderstand me, I have no problem with the use of force in that incident, just saying that LEO's deployed around the perimeter of an intramural dispute and then engaging anyone with a weapon doesn't much resemble what most of us think of as a gunfight, ie. between two sides. I don't recall that there were any 1%ers actually trying to engage officers at any point, or do I have that wrong....
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  #849  
Old 11 February 2018, 08:55
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I'm not diving back into this, but the footage and reports I saw were of police shooing bikers, some of whome may not have been armed with firearms. I may be wrong, but I'm not court and don't want to be.

I also don't care if some of these clowns were criminals on the side or whatever, if it doesn't pertain to their motorcycle or legal firearm, I firmly believe it should not be seized.
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  #850  
Old 11 February 2018, 14:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
Does someone legally qualifying to be shot make it a gun fight?

Please don't misunderstand me, I have no problem with the use of force in that incident, just saying that LEO's deployed around the perimeter of an intramural dispute and then engaging anyone with a weapon doesn't much resemble what most of us think of as a gunfight, ie. between two sides. I don't recall that there were any 1%ers actually trying to engage officers at any point, or do I have that wrong....
Fair enough, poor choice of words for the point I was making. I wasn’t trying to make it sound like a “gunfight” although that was indeed the word I used. My comment was aimed at the previous comment that it was clear “the police did more of the killing than anyone else.” My point was, and remains, so what? If a shoot is legal and valid within the context proper of use of force and established case law, then who cares who killed more of who? It sounded (intended or not) as if the legitimacy and legality of the shoot was dependent upon who racked up more hits on target, which would of course be absurd.
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  #851  
Old 11 February 2018, 18:10
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I don't really understand how you come to that conclusion of what I meant. Most of the dead were actually killed by police, bikers were not engaging police, many of the extras on scene are not being charged, police still have property that has nothing to do with the fight.

Headline ought to read : Police Kill Several During Biker Melee. There was no "shootout".
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  #852  
Old 11 February 2018, 20:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVmedic View Post
I don't really understand how you come to that conclusion of what I meant. Most of the dead were actually killed by police, bikers were not engaging police, many of the extras on scene are not being charged, police still have property that has nothing to do with the fight.

Headline ought to read : Police Kill Several During Biker Melee. There was no "shootout".
I came to that conclusion because, as I previously stated, your post was worded to sound as though the legality of a shooting is determined by who wins or loses. You may not have meant it to read that way, but it did. As for the “shootout” or lack thereof, I’m pretty sure I cleared that up in my last post. Last, the shooting and the subsequent investigation are two completely separate issues. I was only talking about the shooting itself.
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  #853  
Old 11 February 2018, 21:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVmedic View Post
...Headline ought to read : Police Kill Several During Biker Melee. There was no "shootout".
No one truly cares what the title says because history shows it's all based on being "click bait." I gave up on titles being accurate long ago. Not to mention the accuracy of the articles themselves....
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  #854  
Old 11 February 2018, 22:49
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That's part of the reason I stopped reading about it a while ago and I'm really not trying to turn this into another civil forfeiture thread, but it is a great example of it. Hell they could have turned all those bikes and guns back months ago but I doubt it.

The legality of "the shoot" and pulling the trigger on citizens who may or may not be a Target manager or meth trafficker for fighting in a bar parking lot is yet another thread of it's own. I fully support these guys wishes to run around dressed up like it's the 70's sans knifing each other in a parking lot I possibly could have been driving through with my own kids. I don't live in Waco but I visit that area every year or so. From what I read those other groups aren't even the OMC type and who knows what could have really been going on outside the participants. Imagine getting attacked by Billy Badass swinging a chain mace only to pull your CCW to get shot by an officer observing from across the way. Not a good scenario all the way around. But, I digress....
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  #855  
Old 11 February 2018, 22:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
If a shoot is legal and valid within the context proper of use of force and established case law, then who cares who killed more of who?
As long as we don't have conflicting commands being issued, secondary LEO shooters unloading into the shootee after he's already down, or "mysterious" damage to the hard drive record of the incident that encompasses only the immediate time frame of the incident, (Erik Scott shooting) not me.....

I had to slip that in there.
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  #856  
Old 10 May 2018, 16:13
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3 Bandidos indicted on murder charges

https://www.dcourier.com/news/2018/m...hooting-texas/

About 20 other OMG members were charged with various crimes about a week ago.
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