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  #2201  
Old 13 February 2018, 10:23
Gsniper Gsniper is offline
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Out here in sticks SW Va they often involve Game Wardens (they recently changed their name here to Conservation Police Officers) to get into hillbilly farms and stuff that they suspect of meth, etc. The Wardens have a low threshold for being able to do a search. I.E. deer hide laying in the yard, PC to go in and check if it's a tagged deer. 1-800 call of suspected poaching, PC to go in and check freezers in residences. Badda bing, badda boom, all kinds of chicanery gets discovered.
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  #2202  
Old 13 February 2018, 10:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
PC to go in and check freezers in residences. Badda bing, badda boom, all kinds of chicanery gets discovered.
I feel that that ability elevates our (FL) 'game wardens' powers above regular LE. And to be fair, I don't hear that power being abused.
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  #2203  
Old 13 February 2018, 11:27
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I read this thread and notice there's a marked difference between those in rural environs and those in urban areas. Situation dictates, and adults need to make, and live with,adult decisions. S/F....Ken M
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  #2204  
Old 13 February 2018, 11:53
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I don't know of any State that has unarmed/non-LEO credentialed wildlife agents. Everyone you meet is armed, literally. Also, things in nature don't care if we "are at the top of the food chain". We had one shot a while back on a traffic stop by a couple of tweakers.

I fuck with our oppossum cops but we do a lot with them, and they've had my back more than once. They also have some stupid fast boats that are a blast.
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  #2205  
Old 13 February 2018, 14:09
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Ohio and Oklahoma are also LE.

About 11-12 years ago, I interrupted a copper theft at our rural-ish Ohio church (east Madison County, if you know the area). One deputy arrived, caught the two guys in the act, then started a foot chase. The first two units on the scene to back him up were Franklin County Metro Parks rangers, who were unarmed LE.
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  #2206  
Old 13 February 2018, 14:15
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My uncle is a retired park ranger/game warden in northern Wisconsin. Poaching and drunk boating was the big think but he also helped out the local departments when he could.
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  #2207  
Old 13 February 2018, 16:21
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When you need backup, you don't care who it is or what department they work for...you are just thankful they are there.

The harassing other departments quickly goes out the door and they quickly become your best friend....
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  #2208  
Old 13 February 2018, 16:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
^^This^^. It's called "concealed carry" for a reason. Don't fuck up. But even if you do, it's trespassing. Here anyway. They ask you to leave, you do so. If they even become aware of it and you know they have, you might want to assume they called the Police without telling you. And if all of a sudden they announce the need to evacuate the building , stash it, strip to your briefs, and walk out the front door with your hands held high.

If Erik Scott had done that, maybe he'd still be alive.
So here is the way it works in Missouri. Yes, many states do not put the rule of law behind their signage. BUT many laws state that if you are trespassing and you shoot someone you are not covered by the CCW law.

COA 1, Go into store with sign and leave, nothing happens.
COA 2, Go in store, Nancy Pelosi sees your pistol when reaching for an item on a high shelf, leave or face trespassing.
COA 3, Go in store, shoot bad guy while trespassing, not covered by law, now a felon.

YMMV.
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  #2209  
Old 13 February 2018, 17:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
So here is the way it works in Missouri. Yes, many states do not put the rule of law behind their signage. BUT many laws state that if you are trespassing and you shoot someone you are not covered by the CCW law.

COA 1, Go into store with sign and leave, nothing happens.
COA 2, Go in store, Nancy Pelosi sees your pistol when reaching for an item on a high shelf, leave or face trespassing.
COA 3, Go in store, shoot bad guy while trespassing, not covered by law, now a felon.

YMMV.
And COA #3 is why this country is going to hell in a handbasket
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  #2210  
Old 13 February 2018, 17:05
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Got this from a friend of mine. Conspiracy theorists enjoy!

Quote:
Do me a quick favor please. Go to jpfo.org and in the center top click the
link for the store (should take you to store.jpfo...) then, tack "face"
onto the end of the URL. After the ...php part.

Where's that take you? I get consistent results on my comcast connection
at home and at work, I'm not conspiracy digging here but it's kinda funny.
The volunteer who runs the server says he's not sure why it happens but I
think it has to be in his apache configuration.
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  #2211  
Old 13 February 2018, 17:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferryman View Post
Got this from a friend of mine. Conspiracy theorists enjoy!
Guessing it is their method of dealing with php hacks.

Doesn't mean you need an aluminum yamaka to go to the site.
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  #2212  
Old 14 February 2018, 01:24
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Hawaii guys: Alan Beck and Stephen Stamboulieh argued before the Hawaii Federal District Court (part of the 9th Circuit) about the de facto ban by the Honolulu PD for private citizens for open or concealed carry. Docket 12-17808: George Young, Jr. v. State of Hawaii.

If you enjoy watching an unprepared attorney for the State get their ass handed to them, watch https://youtu.be/podPuHnX698 It's long, but worth it to understand what has been going on in Hawaii.

Mr. Beck is a former Marine, and Mr. Stamboulieh has been instrumental in several high profile cases, such as the NJ Stun Gun ban, Terry v. US ("Fast and Furious" gunwalking scandal resulting in death of CBP agent), and Heller v. District of Columbia. He was sitting second chair on this, but does good work for the Second Amendment. Although not partners of the same firm, Mr. Stamboulieh has often worked with Alan Gura, another shining light for the right side.
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  #2213  
Old 14 February 2018, 01:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
COA 3, Go in store, shoot bad guy while trespassing, not covered by law, now a felon.

YMMV.
I admit I hadn't thought about that particular scenario. Worth checking out for applicability here, but if I had to surmise I'd think probably not an issue. This is a state where anyone forcibly entering an occupied dwelling (to include a motor vehicle) can be immediately engaged with no other factors extant, armed or not, and Metro won't bat an eye, the case I'm aware of happened in the wee hours of the morning, they did take the weapon used, "for evidence", but none of his other guns and after the medics took the deceased out of the residence the cops told the guy to come down to the station sometime the next day with his lawyer to give a statement and left him to go back to sleep. Is it just me or is that incredibly civilized?
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  #2214  
Old 14 February 2018, 06:11
Steve40th Steve40th is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpel308 View Post
Hawaii guys: Alan Beck and Stephen Stamboulieh argued before the Hawaii Federal District Court (part of the 9th Circuit) about the de facto ban by the Honolulu PD for private citizens for open or concealed carry. Docket 12-17808: George Young, Jr. v. State of Hawaii.

If you enjoy watching an unprepared attorney for the State get their ass handed to them, watch https://youtu.be/podPuHnX698 It's long, but worth it to understand what has been going on in Hawaii.

Mr. Beck is a former Marine, and Mr. Stamboulieh has been instrumental in several high profile cases, such as the NJ Stun Gun ban, Terry v. US ("Fast and Furious" gunwalking scandal resulting in death of CBP agent), and Heller v. District of Columbia. He was sitting second chair on this, but does good work for the Second Amendment. Although not partners of the same firm, Mr. Stamboulieh has often worked with Alan Gura, another shining light for the right side.
Hawaii sucks. I read an article where they showed a number of people, I think it was 83, who had concealed carry permits. Come to find out they were all high end security for elitists within Hawaii. And the 6 people, normal citizens, who tried that one year were told no by Chief of Police or Judge.. Sorry so vague, but its bad out there when you have no privilege.
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  #2215  
Old 14 February 2018, 16:39
Azatty Azatty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpel308 View Post
Hawaii guys: Alan Beck and Stephen Stamboulieh argued before the Hawaii Federal District Court (part of the 9th Circuit) about the de facto ban by the Honolulu PD for private citizens for open or concealed carry. Docket 12-17808: George Young, Jr. v. State of Hawaii.

If you enjoy watching an unprepared attorney for the State get their ass handed to them, watch https://youtu.be/podPuHnX698 It's long, but worth it to understand what has been going on in Hawaii.
Don't be so sure of what you're seeing in the video. Having been in front of state and federal appellate judges, you can't always tell who is getting who's ass kicked by the judges just by the questions being asked. I've had judges suck up everything I've said and seem to be on my side, but then the opinion stomps my position. This is the 9th Circuit, after all, and what you see may simply be the judges attempting to give the state an opportunity to skate on the Constitutional issue if the state can show that as applied the statute does not work a de facto ban.

Beck made some mistakes, too. The one at the end of argument was quoting a 1961 attorney general opinion and then admitting he didn't know when the law was actually enacted. If you're at the podium, you damn well better be the most knowledgeable guy in the courtroom about the law you're challenging and every argument the other side has made.
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  #2216  
Old 15 February 2018, 00:49
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Understood, Counselor.

I sure as hell do understand about Liberal judges, though. The 9th Circuit is also infamous for being the most overturned court in the land, and tends to legislate from the bench. I still found the footage amusing.
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  #2217  
Old 15 February 2018, 01:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
I admit I hadn't thought about that particular scenario. Worth checking out for applicability here, but if I had to surmise I'd think probably not an issue. This is a state where anyone forcibly entering an occupied dwelling (to include a motor vehicle) can be immediately engaged with no other factors extant, armed or not, and Metro won't bat an eye, the case I'm aware of happened in the wee hours of the morning, they did take the weapon used, "for evidence", but none of his other guns and after the medics took the deceased out of the residence the cops told the guy to come down to the station sometime the next day with his lawyer to give a statement and left him to go back to sleep. Is it just me or is that incredibly civilized?
Sure, shooting someone in your house is an easy defense. But when you walk past a sign that says "We are pussies and are afraid of guns" or whatever the state requires and you stroll on by, you are trespassing. (Although some states, they have to ask you to leave before you are trespassing). Most laws state that if you shoot someone and you are not in violation of the law, you are OK in a self defense situation. If you are trespassing, you do not enjoy coverage under the law.
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  #2218  
Old 15 February 2018, 11:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azatty View Post
This is the 9th Circuit, after all, and what you see may simply be the judges attempting to give the state an opportunity to skate on the Constitutional issue if the state can show that as applied the statute does not work a de facto ban.
They tried to let the state have that one. The sticking point was that no normal law abiding person has been issued a permit in 2 decades. In listening to the judges, it reminded me of the panel in Moore v Madigan in Illinois.

Asking about the law, what it means, who can carry, and then ending with asking the state if they really believed the 2A did not apply outside the home.

Of course the moore v madigan orals were MUCH more interesting and I think better represented from both sides. But listening tot he questions and the state having to concede that there was no way to get a permit, there was no system (in this case as applied) and the state having to argue that the 2A did not cover bearing arms outside the home...

These judges will bend over backward to help the state in these cases. But like the Illinois case of Moore, no normal law abiding citizens at all, being able to carry/get a permit is really the straw that broke the camels back.... Unlike NY or Maryland where they can at least point to SOME permit holders and the state argues that they have a process for determining issuance... Hawaii cannot argue that at all.
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  #2219  
Old 15 February 2018, 12:13
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Originally Posted by billdawg View Post
And COA #3 is why this country is going to hell in a handbasket
Say? You did notice the word trespassing? Think about that word only when you assess this situation.

What say if I have a club and I choose to be the only MF'r in there who's armed. Or Me and my two Samoans? What then? Why are you in my establishment armed when I asked you not to be?

I'm in agreeance on many aspects of the hell in a hand-basket theory, but property rights are a sticking point with me. If It's Private Property, then it's private property.

To me of course I shouldn't have to bake you a cake either because you're whatever I don't like. But somehow the courts say otherwise, enter hell in a hand-basket take two.
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  #2220  
Old 15 February 2018, 12:32
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Originally Posted by litepath View Post
Say? You did notice the word trespassing? Think about that word only when you assess this situation.

What say if I have a club and I choose to be the only MF'r in there who's armed. Or Me and my two Samoans? What then? Why are you in my establishment armed when I asked you not to be?

I'm in agreeance on many aspects of the hell in a hand-basket theory, but property rights are a sticking point with me. If It's Private Property, then it's private property.

To me of course I shouldn't have to bake you a cake either because you're whatever I don't like. But somehow the courts say otherwise, enter hell in a hand-basket take two.
You're missed my point, or possibly I wasn't clear in making it. I'm certainly not knocking any business for not allowing firearms on their property(although another argument would be they are usurping the constitution, but that's for another day).
My hell in a handbasket statement is if I am CCW in a non CCW place of business, and Mr. Bad Guy comes in shooting, and me with my legally owned CCW pistol, fire back, stopping the attack, it was contended that I am in trouble because I 'trespassed' with my CCW, never mind the fact, that I just saved lives. Basically, nobody would use common sense and logic to say hey, how fortunate we were that Mr. Billdawg happened to be here with his CCW. Here's a pat on the back for a job well done. Nope, I'm going to get all hemmed up, because I trespassed. So I stand by my original statement, things like that are why this country is going to hell in a hand basket.
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