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Old 17 November 2017, 17:10
shady1 shady1 is offline
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Argentine submarine search underway

Although this is not being called an emergency situation by Argentine officials I find it odd that no contact at all has been established since wednesday. I know it's a big pond out there but they were not that far off and patrolling the coastline. As is being reported, it is protocol to surface if no communication can be established. Going on 48 hrs. Now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.0a8a72c96fa5
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Old 17 November 2017, 18:01
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Hope it works out for the best.

having to admit this happened must have caused a scene or two,

“The Argentine Foreign Ministry said in a statement that the governments of Britain, Chile and the United States had offered “logistical help and an exchange of information for this humanitarian search.”
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Old 17 November 2017, 22:35
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In 85 I went through my officer's basic course, attended by an Israeli, a Brit, a Yemeni (POS turd who practically lived at the strip bar) a couple of Canadians, and an Argentine.

The Brit had fired artillery at the Argentine's counter-battery radar set during the Falklands war.

They wound up getting along pretty well by the end of the course. No reason for their government to turn away ANY help when you might have a sub in peril.
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Old 17 November 2017, 22:49
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I've spent a fair amount of time in Argentina, working with their .mil folks, and they are some fine people. Very professional military. Missing subs rarely result in good news. Praying that's not the case here.
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Old 18 November 2017, 00:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Missing subs rarely result in good news.
Sad but true.
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Old 18 November 2017, 04:30
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Every time I see reports of missing submarines I think about a horrible time in our history in 1968, USS Scorpion.I can only hope for the best.I used work on submarines from a Sub Tender,USS Hunley AS -31.God help this crew.
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Old 18 November 2017, 06:39
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267 miles off the coast? Water is pretty deep out there.

"...The German-built submarine was inaugurated in 1983, the newest of the three submarines in the Argentine navy's fleet..."

Link
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Old 18 November 2017, 09:42
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Search and rescue mission now. Obviously stressing urgency in located the missing sub. Many assets employed now in the search. As mentioned previously. This is looking bad.
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Old 18 November 2017, 14:55
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U.S. Southern Command (SOUTHCOM) directed the U.S. Navy to deploy a P—8A Poseidon multi—mission maritime aircraft to Bahia Blanca, Argentina, Nov. 18 to support the South American nation's ongoing search for the submarine A.R.A. San Juan in the waters of the Southern Atlantic.

http://links.govdelivery.com/track?t...tory_id=103416
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Old 18 November 2017, 15:20
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"We expect that it is on the surface," Mr Balbi said.

I'm continually reminded how vast our oceans are.

I admit to knowing little to nothing about sub warfare and the oceans in general. I'm certain that people much smarter than me have considered this, but aren't there more modern ways to locate lost vessels? Planes have black boxes with beacons, not subs? Battery power may be an issue but can't cell phones be located even when dead and/or turned off?

I apologize ahead of time for you stupid questions but I truly know nothing about this so the thing.
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Old 18 November 2017, 15:43
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God Bless the men and women who serve on subs....not for me, no way, not ever. Thoughts and prayers to those on the Argentina sub.
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Old 18 November 2017, 17:56
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It's a diesel-electric, more of a WWII era submersible that a submarine (that is, it's a surface ship that can dive from time to time).

It can't stay underwater for very long, it must surface to refresh the air and run the engines to recharge the batteries.

If they are that far offshore, there is no "resting on the bottom for rescue," they are well below crush depth.

No coms, including emergency bouys that are located outside of the pressure hull, tells me this is a hull loss investigation, not a rescue mission.

Remind me of a tragedy from my youth, the USS Thresher. A nuclear submarine that suffered a piping failure at a depth when structural failures are fatal. Since it was a test cruise, there were surface ships nearby, monitoring underwater transmissions from the Thresher.
One of the last transmissions was: "Attempting to blow [ballast]."

That's like a parachutist stating: "Attempting to pull reserve."

Silence after that is not good.

129 sailors (and since it was a test dive, some civilian contractors) died on the Thresher. It was the first of its class, the peak of naval engineering. Like the Space Shuttle Challenger, its loss shook the submariners of the world and changed the entire course of submarine building afterward.
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Old 18 November 2017, 21:02
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The U.S. Navy has ordered its Undersea Rescue Command (URC) based in San Diego, Calif., to deploy to Argentina, Nov. 18 to support the South American nation's ongoing search for the Argentinean Navy submarine A.R.A. San Juan in the Southern Atlantic.

http://links.govdelivery.com/track?t...tory_id=103417
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Old 19 November 2017, 00:35
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When the US Navy replaced the Mk37 torpedo with the Mk48, they sold the Mk37s to foreign navies, including Argentina. Most navies paid to have their Mk37 purchases upgraded to the NT37 variants which replaced the electric propulsion with a modern liquid monopropellant system (otto fuel). Otto fuel is awfully toxic if it leaks out, but is overall a much safer system than the battery packs of the original Mk37 design, which had an annoying tendency to overheat, which could cause fires or engine startup while the torpedo was still in the tube or even in the torpedo room. A torpedo battery overheat is suspected of having initiated the Kursk disaster. I have no idea what happened to the Argentine submarine, but from everything I could find the Argentine Navy never spent the money to update their torpedoes from the original Mk37 configuration.

I served aboard a sub that was riddled with potentially fatal flaws that went unaddressed year after year because our navy was willing to spend the money to operate the vessel but unwilling to spend the money to keep it from killing the crew. That was in the US Navy, and I have no reason to expect the Argentine Navy to do any better. I hope that penny-pinching didn't cost lives this time.

I hope the crew is just bobbing around in heavy seas with a mechanical issue and communication failure. There were reports of several failed attempts at satellite communication from the vessel today, though whether that was from a crewmember or an automatic rescue buoy was unclear.
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Old 19 November 2017, 09:18
shady1 shady1 is offline
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Being reported this morning that there was a fire before communication was lost. First I've heard of this.

Adm. Gabriel Gonzalez, said.
"We have a loss of communications. We are not talking of an emergency."

Sounds pretty optimistic. I hope he's right. From what I understand fire in a sub can get out of control very quickly.
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Old 19 November 2017, 09:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shady1 View Post
From what I understand fire in a sub can get out of control very quickly.
Understatement. We lost the USS Bonefish that way in 1988.
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  #17  
Old 19 November 2017, 11:33
shady1 shady1 is offline
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Originally Posted by ET1/ss nuke View Post
Understatement. We lost the USS Bonefish that way in 1988.
Yes. Even when on dry dock. 12 hours and 100 FF to extinguish.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-fire/1990663/
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  #18  
Old 20 November 2017, 17:41
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/missing-argentine-submarine-had-reported-electrical-malfunction/ar-BBFlsev?OCID=ansmsnnews11

According to the Reuters story linked above, the attempted contacts from the submarine on Saturday "did not correspond to the satellite phone aboard the sub."

That means that either they came from a crewmember (sign of human survivors but probably a lost boat) or from an emergency locator buoy (sign of a sunken boat, which probably means no survivors). The last legit comms with the boat were last Wednesday. Even if they are submerged but not crushed, their air will be gone in the next few days.

One of our DSRV units arrived on scene yesterday, but they are of no use until the boat is located, and the weather has been so rough that the search has been hampered so far. Technically the R in DSRV stands for Rescue, but it might as well stand for Recovery. I've never known of a successful rescue using a DSRV. By the time they show up, there's nobody left to rescue, so it is just a device to deliver people who go in and recover things.

There is still hope for the crew of the San Juan, but it is a slim hope that is fading fast.
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"I agree that his intentions are suspect, and that he likely needs to die...." - SOTB

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  #19  
Old 20 November 2017, 17:55
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  #20  
Old 20 November 2017, 18:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ET1/ss nuke View Post

I've never known of a successful rescue using a DSRV. By the time they show up, there's nobody left to rescue, so it is just a device to deliver people who go in and recover things.

There is still hope for the crew of the San Juan, but it is a slim hope that is fading fast.

While not exactly a deep rescue, what about the Squalus? Any others that were successful?
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