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Old 20 June 2016, 12:52
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Krav Maga question?

It looks like our H2H section has been quiet for awhile, so I'll throw out a question I've been wondering. I'm 55 this year, and was trying to narrow down a martial art that would be the most "no-nonsense", fast-results type of skill-set. Something effective in a multi-attacker, protect my wife, (never go to the ground) type scenario. Does this sound the most like Krav Maga, and if so, do we have a good system of instruction here in the US?
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Old 20 June 2016, 13:00
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Punching someone in the face (hard) and unassing the AO is probably the best martial "Art".
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Old 20 June 2016, 13:31
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http://www.kravmaga.com/

Krav, judo, boxing, muay thai, wrestling will all do the job. At 55yo, I'd throw out wrestling, judo, and muay thai, they'e really hard on the body. That leaves krav and boxing.
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Old 22 June 2016, 22:11
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Originally Posted by poison View Post

Krav, judo, boxing, muay thai, wrestling will all do the job. At 55yo, I'd throw out wrestling, judo, and muay thai, they'e really hard on the body. That leaves krav and boxing.
This guy seems to be our local recognized expert.
Anybody heard this name?

R.E.A.C.T.™ Defense Systems is the original and only Krav Maga Worldwide™ (KMWW) Regional Training Center in Arizona. Brought by Chief Instructor Jay Ackerman in 2001...etc/
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Old 23 June 2016, 00:05
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Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
This guy seems to be our local recognized expert.
Anybody heard this name?

R.E.A.C.T.™ Defense Systems is the original and only Krav Maga Worldwide™ (KMWW) Regional Training Center in Arizona. Brought by Chief Instructor Jay Ackerman in 2001...etc/
Never heard of him, but I don't keep track of the American krav scene.
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Old 23 June 2016, 06:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
This guy seems to be our local recognized expert.
Anybody heard this name?

R.E.A.C.T.™ Defense Systems is the original and only Krav Maga Worldwide™ (KMWW) Regional Training Center in Arizona. Brought by Chief Instructor Jay Ackerman in 2001...etc/
The older I get, the less I understand what an "expert" is.

Check him out. In addition to taking a trial class or two (which will probably be focused on some very basics) ask if you can watch a higher level classes to see what experienced students look like (from skill and fitness perspectives). If you like what you see, then there you go. You having some judo and life experience under your belt your instincts should be able to make a "would this really work for me" assessment.
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Old 20 June 2016, 13:48
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There's always Tai Chi...
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Old 20 June 2016, 17:12
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There's always Tai Chi...
LOL! (shit-bird!)I'm not that old yet, but it may not be far away. There's classes nearby.

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Originally Posted by SpudWrench View Post
Systema for your old bones. Seriously, you can go round and round with what's "the best," but RMA fits your basic requirements nicely - except we do go to the ground, because it happens in every good fight. May as well get good at getting back up.
Decent groundwork, from background in wrestling, judo (brown belt, long ago) and some aikido back in the day. My trained instinct is to go to ground, but...100% agree with following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
Punching someone in the face (hard) and unassing the AO is probably the best martial "Art".
Bingo! The essence of Krav (or even boxing), correct? LOL! Old guy survival when I don't have the CCW, and maybe even better than pulling it, if possible. Probably should also practice drawstroke/shooting over my shoulder "on-the-run" with the wife in tow. LOL!
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Old 20 June 2016, 18:28
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There's always Tai Chi...
I don't mean to say I'm taking this off the list. I've seen them doing their classes just a few blocks away, and the instructor is a very attractive tiny (but seemingly tough) little Chinese gal, so I have to question my own motives and possible focus/discipline. But I can definitely see this in my future.
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Old 20 June 2016, 13:59
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Systema for your old bones. Seriously, you can go round and round with what's "the best," but RMA fits your basic requirements nicely - except we do go to the ground, because it happens in every good fight. May as well get good at getting back up.
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Old 20 June 2016, 19:39
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^^^ No offense...I was fuckin' with ya!
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Old 20 June 2016, 21:32
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^^^ No offense...I was fuckin' with ya!
I caught that, but No, I'm serious. She'll be worth hobbling up to work out with in a few years! LOL!

I definitely see TaiChi in my future. (unless they change instructors!). She also does a yoga class, and as I get older I find my values...changing. Simple pleasures, Bro! Simple pleasures, where you find them. LOL!
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Old 20 June 2016, 22:18
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Old 21 June 2016, 09:57
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Gun, edged weapon-take classes, boxing
Air Force hey,Ummmm
2 guns
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Old 21 June 2016, 21:17
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Gun, edged weapon-take classes, boxing
Air Force hey,Ummmm
2 guns
LOL! JHS Rifle Team, I can hit em with one. But it's those times I'm forced to not be carrying...plus, I just feel too old to spar much anymore. It hurts the NEXT day! I need to work something w/60% mindset, and 40% muscle memory, that also involves multiple aggressors. And try to avoid going to ground.

And that's a good workout, as that's half the motive. Isn't Krav kind of like "standing grappling" combined with striking? I wonder if there's any real instruction in PHX...not just third-hand experts.
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Old 22 June 2016, 09:26
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LOL! JHS Rifle Team, I can hit em with one. But it's those times I'm forced to not be carrying...plus, I just feel too old to spar much anymore. It hurts the NEXT day! I need to work something w/60% mindset, and 40% muscle memory, that also involves multiple aggressors. And try to avoid going to ground.

And that's a good workout, as that's half the motive. Isn't Krav kind of like "standing grappling" combined with striking? I wonder if there's any real instruction in PHX...not just third-hand experts.
Aikido might be an interesting choice, as far as angles, deflecting, and moving out of the line of attack. Not realistic training though.

Krav isn't standing grappling. I did krav in Israel, in a gov't course run by the shin bet, three months of 6hrs a day of krav, 6 hrs a day of shooting, straight from the source. It's all elbows, knees, rudimentary kicks and punches, all with the goal of ending the threat and/or getting to your gun asap. They don't separate between hand to hand and shooting, it's all one thing. They use gross motor movements that will survive an adrenaline dump better. Loads of 10 on 1, fight your way out of impossible odds stuff, loads of distance training (do I draw or close the distance?).

In the US, and some civilian Israeli schools, they've incorporated jiu jitsu and judo, and a lot of the videos you see on youtube are super flashy. That might be why you say 'standing grappling'. It's cool, but it's not real krav, it takes a lot longer to use some of it effectively because it's not gross motor movement, and some of it is straight up bullshit. Flying triangles and armbars look cool, but this isn't a marvel movie, black widow gets to retake a bunch of times.
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Old 22 June 2016, 10:48
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Aikido might be an interesting choice, as far as angles, deflecting, and moving out of the line of attack. Not realistic training though.
IMHO, Aikido is not easy to pick up. Someone needs to be committed and it will take more time to get proficiency than other arts.
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Old 22 June 2016, 21:55
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Aikido might be an interesting choice, as far as angles, deflecting, and moving out of the line of attack. Not realistic training though.
Exactly. I had a lot of Judo (love that shit, and it saved my ass on my motorcycle!) and tried 6mo of Aikido. It was great and effective IF you can reliably get just the right grip. Not realistic in a gross-motor adreno-dump, without YEARS of practice. But it was cool to learn to use someones wrists and elbows like a f'n steering wheel. The deflection was a LOT like Judo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poison View Post
Krav isn't standing grappling. I did krav in Israel, in a gov't course run by the shin bet, three months of 6hrs a day of krav, 6 hrs a day of shooting, straight from the source. It's all elbows, knees, rudimentary kicks and punches, all with the goal of ending the threat and/or getting to your gun asap. They don't separate between hand to hand and shooting, it's all one thing.
That's some great stuff right there! Did they work from the empty chamber drawstroke, or is that just a myth?
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Old 23 June 2016, 00:01
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That's some great stuff right there! Did they work from the empty chamber drawstroke, or is that just a myth?
Yes, everyone but swat/hostage rescue is pretty much empty chamber. It's fine, no problem.
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Old 22 June 2016, 10:38
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I just feel too old to spar much anymore. It hurts the NEXT day! I need to work something w/60% mindset, and 40% muscle memory, that also involves multiple aggressors. And try to avoid going to ground....
And that's a good workout, as that's half the motive.
Seriously, http://systemaarizona.com/.

I don't know these guys, but their certs and senior instructors come out of the same place as mine.
I feel better walking out of class than I did walking in, when I miss class for a week, I feel like ass (old, stiff, etc.).
Mindset? Fear management is huge - ever had someone slip a rope around your neck and choke you while you're sitting in your car? We did that three weeks ago.
Ever have 4 guys dogpile on top of you? Stand on your chest? We do that at least once a month.
Knives? Yeah, all the time - big metal ones, not those pussy foam rubber deals.
Sparring? Get to like it. We don't use pads, and full speed hits to the face aren't uncommon (not really the Systema way though). You'll learn to breath through it, and a solid hit to the soup coolers won't shake you.
Sticks, improvised weapons (I've attacked people in class with an ice scraper from my trunk), a good bit of gun work (primarily defensive).
Group work? Tons. We pressure test attributes to see how they hold up under multiple attackers. Actually, that shit's easy, I can handle 4 guys better than I can handle 2.
Some classes are boring - you'll spend 1.5 hours expanding your lung capacity with breathing exercises. Other classes are amazing - you'll spend 1.5 hours holding your breath while two guys try to drown you in a kiddy pool.

There is a bit of spirituality to it, which is required to understand Systema's principles. I think that's why it appeals to older students. I'm 43, and between our two local schools, students range from 23 to 70 years old. One of the local instructors is 63, and he's switched me off on a couple occasions.

Call ahead and ask for a demo class. I think you'll like it.
It won't make you a lethal killing machine (unless that's your goal), but it will make you healthy and aware, and most importantly confident.

I think KM is pretty bad ass, but as stated here, there's a lot of boutique schools in the US that I equate to Tai Bo. Their students trickle in to our classes periodically, and they are boringly predictable. They are trained to pull every punch, and when hit in the gut they fold up and lose their pre-planned attack.
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