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Old 5 June 2018, 05:00
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Question DACA aka Dreamers

So having a hard time getting a definate answer on this.

If those under DACA status can carry, own, purchase a firearm?

Federal ATF law seems pretty clear in that only citizens and legal permanent residents (green card holders) can. Student, work, tourist visas cannot. DACA status is not considered permanent resident immigrant. Exceptions to this is if one has a hunting permit , or is using a firearm rented for the range or training program.

Here is where it gets muddy. But they have been able to obtain a license to carry permit in State of Indiana. So a bit confused. They can have a carry permit, but cannot purchase or own? And 7 th circuit court ruled 2A applied to illegal immigrants, but let lower court ruling stand for conviction of illegally purchased
/possession of firearm. A bit confusing.

Asking as have a 21 year old MA student of mine, who was able to get a carry permit, now wants to purchase a handgun. I have advised him to better really make sure no legal issues.
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Old 5 June 2018, 05:47
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I am only speaking from my experience, but my gf is DACA and she has told me that she cannot purchase a firearm. I'm not sure about the carry issue.
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Old 5 June 2018, 06:33
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I believe 4473 ask if are you an alien illegally in the United States. Hopefully the DACAs are deported soon. That is BS Indiana gave him a permit.
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Old 5 June 2018, 07:38
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But again to muddy the waters are DACAs here illegally, since they have DACA credentials? Gray area to many. Would a DACA reply NO on the 4473 then , as in his mind he is here legally? Does the background check pick up on this, or only mental illness/restraining orders/felonies?

I don't think you are going to see DACAs deported anytime soon,unless they break the law. The DACA program does need to be fixed. This student I have is actually pretty squared away - good church going family, parents working jobs, sent their kids to private religious school, he is working and paying his way to college. He even wants to join the US military and considers this his home since he has lived here since one year old. He is in purgatory. I would much rather have the likes of him and his family staying here - an intact, church going, hardworking, tax paying family - than the lazy mooching Chicago immigrants we are getting.


I say give DACA youth permanent residence/green card if they enlist in the military, and citizenship after couple years. Or some other method to make a wrong a right.
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Last edited by leopardprey; 5 June 2018 at 07:46.
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Old 5 June 2018, 09:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
The DACA program does need to be fixed.
This^^^. Per the USCIS DACA website FAQs:

Quote:
Q5: If my case is deferred, am I in lawful status for the period of deferral?
No. Although action on your case has been deferred and you do not accrue unlawful presence (for admissibility purposes) during the period of deferred action, deferred action does not confer any lawful status.

The fact that you are not accruing unlawful presence does not change whether you are in lawful status while you remain in the United States. However, although deferred action does not confer a lawful immigration status, your period of stay is authorized by the Department of Homeland Security while your deferred action is in effect and, for admissibility purposes, you are considered to be lawfully present in the United States during that time. Individuals granted deferred action are not precluded by federal law from establishing domicile in the U.S.
My interpretation of that...no guns...but, there is some confusion.
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Old 5 June 2018, 10:05
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So does the background check donevwhen sumbit 4473 scan for immigration or citizenship status?

Seems to me if not, be easy for many DACAs and illegal immigrants with a valid drivers license to purchase (even though technically illegal).

Maybe gun stores should start asking for Passport or social security card/birth certificate, or Green Card - to show proof of legality of citizenship or legal permanent resident immigration status in order to purchase a firearm?
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Old 5 June 2018, 11:09
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I hate to recommend this, but it's probably a question for the BATFE. It seems like the only way to be 100% sure. And even then...

https://www.atf.gov/contact
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Old 5 June 2018, 11:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
But again to muddy the waters are DACAs here illegally, since they have DACA credentials?
Seems this would be the only question; legal to be here in the USA or no.

And, from a simple perusal, to me it appears that approved DACA/Form I-797 folks are considered approved to be here. And if approved, then yes, can own and purchase a FA.

I could be wrong.
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Old 5 June 2018, 11:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litepath View Post
Seems this would be the only question; legal to be here in the USA or no.

And, from a simple perusal, to me it appears that approved DACA/Form I-797 folks are considered approved to be here. And if approved, then yes, can own and purchase a FA.

I could be wrong.
"...does not confer lawful status." I interpret that as clearly indicating they cannot truthfully fill out a 4473 (Questions 11k-l and 12) in a way that won't get disapproved.

It's a felony to lie on a 4473, and a felony automatically revokes DACA status. I would advise a DACA not to try to buy or possess a firearm.
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Old 5 June 2018, 13:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
"...does not confer lawful status." I interpret that as clearly indicating they cannot truthfully fill out a 4473 (Questions 11k-l and 12) in a way that won't get disapproved.

It's a felony to lie on a 4473, and a felony automatically revokes DACA status. I would advise a DACA not to try to buy or possess a firearm.

I think you're right. . . .From SCOTUS blog:
A grant of deferred action does not confer any other type of lawful immigration status, enforceable legal rights, or an ability to remain permanently in the United States."

Link: http://www.scotusblog.com/2016/02/sy...than-it-seems/

Acknowledging that this stuff is in flux. . .And I could still be wrong.
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Old 5 June 2018, 14:37
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As a Licensee, my outlook is, "If there's any doubt there is no doubt". Working one of the rental ranges here in town 10 years ago before I started contracting, I saw so many douchebags who KNEW they were prohibited still trying to buy, and then squawking about the re-stock fee charged when they came back denied, I determined that I was NEVER going to go through that BS, that's why I don't sell OTC whatsoever. All internet sales, all out of state transfers direct to other Licensee's, drama quotient is almost non-existent.

You could say I made a decision never to be the slowest gazelle that day....
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Old 5 June 2018, 21:16
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DACA’s are not allowed to buy a weapon per ATF SA that I just talked to.
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Old 5 June 2018, 21:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SF_BHT View Post
DACA’s are not allowed to buy a weapon per ATF SA that I just talked to.
Just to clear the air, if you don't mind, ask Him/Her if they are allowed to possess.
thnx!
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Old 6 June 2018, 00:58
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FYI- Asking a field agent for stuff like this is not the best way. I know of multiple instances where bad information is passed on.

Questions like this need to be addressed to people in the regulatory field.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/who-nonimmigrant-alien

A nonimmigrant alien is an alien in the United States in a nonimmigrant classification as defined by section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15). Generally, "nonimmigrant aliens" are tourists, students, business travelers, and temporary workers who enter the U.S. for fixed periods of time; they are lawfully admitted aliens who are not lawful permanent residents.

[27 CFR 478.11]
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Old 6 June 2018, 01:09
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Here's an Amicus Brief filed regarding DACA and the Drivers License issued that was filed regarding the State of Arizona. It specifically mentions inconsistencies with the federal law, immigration, etc...

http://lawandfreedom.com/wordpress/w...icus-Brief.pdf
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Old 6 June 2018, 21:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litepath View Post
Just to clear the air, if you don't mind, ask Him/Her if they are allowed to possess.
thnx!
Will check. I can tell you that we arrested a DACA for possession last month. She did not have drugs but our ATF agent arrested her for the weapon and she was not a current fellon. Was arraigned and locked up. But will check.
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