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Old 7 November 2018, 23:06
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...and so it begins...

I debated on putting this in the lounge, but there is a LE angle to the story... After all, when the laws are passed, it falls on our officers to enforce them... I'm not at all happy about this... Thoughts?

Mine are... We better hope that all our relatives and neighbors like us... otherwise... they can call and have our weapons taken away, with no hearing, no Judge, no court, and no presumption of innocence...
https://conservative-daily.com/2018/...U1qpIlvWdQb8UI
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If gun control laws controlled crime, we wouldn't need cops.
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Finally, I believe that punishing lawful gun owners by creating new, more onerous laws, and restricting Constitutionally guaranteed rights, when we already don't enforce the tens of thousands of gun laws we have on the books, is like beating your dog because the neighbor's dog shit in your yard.
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Old 7 November 2018, 23:20
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Just another brick in the wall...this will lead to anyone and everyone’s fear of someone “turning them in” for any and all reasons cause it’s “senable” gun laws we wanted.
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Old 8 November 2018, 00:03
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Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
I debated on putting this in the lounge, but there is a LE angle to the story... After all, when the laws are passed, it falls on our officers to enforce them... I'm not at all happy about this... Thoughts?

Mine are... We better hope that all our relatives and neighbors like us... otherwise... they can call and have our weapons taken away, with no hearing, no Judge, no court, and no presumption of innocence...
https://conservative-daily.com/2018/...U1qpIlvWdQb8UI
That is serious. Damn.
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Old 8 November 2018, 00:47
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What blows my mind is how anyone in any administration or chain of command at any agency would sign off on this. Iím testing for Sgt. soon. If that red flag BS were referred to me it would immediately be cancelled. If I do not wind up as Sgt. and the order were given to me to carry out such nonsense there would be a very heated discussion, followed by a very vocal refusal to obey. This is absolute insanity.
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Old 8 November 2018, 01:09
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Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
What blows my mind is how anyone in any administration or chain of command at any agency would sign off on this.
Unfortunately there are those in LE who only think about their career progression.

About 15 years ago, I was assigned to a multi-state, week-long operation, involving about 300 Police. Target was about 200 OMCG members on a power-projection ride into a state capital.

Anyways, the night before the OMCG run was due to cross the state border, the Commissioned Officer briefed about a dozen Sgts, who then briefed us. When our Sgt got to us, he started briefing us on the directive to use false legislation to allow us to search the OMCG bikes.

I blinked, and slowly looked around the 30 or so experienced Police sitting in the briefing. No one said a fucking word, until I stuck my hand up, interrupting the briefing and clearly told the Sgt that there was no fucking way our team would be doing that.

The Sgt nodded, went running back to the higher ranks, and nothing further was said about that.

But if I hadn't said something....I hate to think what would have happened. Because some in LE only care about telling their command "yes sir!"
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Old 8 November 2018, 01:34
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This will lead from "Swatting" to "Flagging". More innocent people will be killed due to the vindictiveness of the entitled and the offended.
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Old 8 November 2018, 03:34
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So how about we preemptively call for RO's on every swinging Richard on the various city councils, and legislatures in these states? "Friends or Family" can ask for them...... Tie the system up.
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Old 8 November 2018, 06:40
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This will lead from "Swatting" to "Flagging". More innocent people will be killed due to the vindictiveness of the entitled and the offended.
Happended to a good friend of mine, a lawyer who is very active and vocal with several local gun rights groups. Someone called the police and said he was carrying a gun in the courthouse. Was he was accousted and searched by the police. He is currently in the process of taking legal action, finding out who reported him and then filing a lawsuit.
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Old 8 November 2018, 06:41
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Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
I debated on putting this in the lounge, but there is a LE angle to the story... After all, when the laws are passed, it falls on our officers to enforce them... I'm not at all happy about this... Thoughts?

Mine are... We better hope that all our relatives and neighbors like us... otherwise... they can call and have our weapons taken away, with no hearing, no Judge, no court, and no presumption of innocence...
https://conservative-daily.com/2018/...U1qpIlvWdQb8UI
A very wrong road we are going down. Terrible what happened in this incident.

As TFG stated, I can see this being used by anti gunners, liberal who do not like conservatives, along with scorned ex wives/girlfriends.
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Old 8 November 2018, 07:19
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"All cruelty springs from weakness." -Seneca

Of course passive-aggressive, coward SJW's are going to use this to attack those who they hate and fear. Naive "white knight" cops are going to be more of a problem than the power hungry brutes that police screening is (rightfully) focused on screening out. When the firefights inevitably happen, police "leadership" will almost certainly double down and militarize rather than stop and analyse; that has been the historical trend. S/F....Ken M
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Old 8 November 2018, 09:55
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I guess those officers got their jobs without swearing an oath?

I mean this document says they swear an Oath to uphold the Constitution, but clearly by attempting to confiscate legally owned weapons they didn't swear that Oath.

or when they swore it they had their fingers crossed? Or black black, take it backed their oath?

I'm confused. I thought swearing an oath meant something.

https://www.powerdms.com/public/aac/documents/14
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Old 8 November 2018, 10:07
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But it's OK since they're all bad. S/F....Ken M
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"If you remember nothing else about what Iím about to consider here, remember this: the one and only reason politicians, bureaucrats, and policemen want to take your weapons away from you is so that they can do things to you that they couldnít do if you still had your weapons."ó L. Neil Smith
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  #13  
Old 8 November 2018, 10:21
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I'm confused. I thought swearing an oath meant something.

An oath only has meaning when used by those with honor and decency in their hearts - otherwise an oath is little more than a stage prop used in the kabuki theater of government
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  #14  
Old 8 November 2018, 10:47
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FYI- Politicians swear basically the same oath. When has that stopped them from drafting and passing these "laws"?

IMO- It shouldn't fall to the officers to decide if a law is "unconstitutional" and not enforce it. Notice I said shouldn't. If any politician took the Constitution seriously, these "laws" would never be on the books in the first place. I personally had a problem with some laws, and chose myself to not arrest someone, because of MY personal moral compass.

That said, there are those out there that actually use their heads for something besides supporting their hats, like was posted above... and object to this shit. Problem is, where this sort of shit happens, well, look at the voting base. It's blue. Look at the people in charge of the government, the police department. They are blue. Look at the officers themselves... and their political beliefs. Not many Republicans.

I'll never forget being told on another board by a DC cop, that, if I were stopped in DC and identified myself as a LEO and told him I was armed, he would take me out of the car and handcuff me and take my weapon. Now, was this for HIS safety? No. It was his political belief that no one besides him is capable or allowed to be armed in DC. He was indoctrinated that way, that everyone besides his fellow department officers are the enemy. I'm sure he took the same or similar oath that I did. The difference between us is simple. I would never even consider treating anyone that way. LEO or not. But, in his world, guns are evil, and everyone else is evil, and must be dealt with. Most likely, same with these cops. To them, this 60 year old retired guy who had no clue at 5am what the fuck was going on, was the enemy. His guns were dangerous. No warrant needed or wanted. Happened during Katrina too. The order was given, "Go get their guns" and it was followed to the tune of some old woman being driven to the floor so they could "protect her" from that revolver she had... for her protection.

So... Yes, swearing an oath does mean something, to those who believe in what the oath stands for. To others, it is just a bunch of words they gotta say to get their power. That goes from the lowest cop to the POTUS, and covers both the civvie world and the .mil world...

Same reason why, throughout history, people have been able to oppress others. Because people of good moral compass, see this shit, sit back, and sip a nice big cup of STFU and do nothing.

This guy should be the poster child of why this sort of law is very wrong. Anyone hear about this story on any major news outlet? Nope. Any large groups of old people taking to the streets, blocking traffic, protesting this shooting? Nope. Let those same cops do this to any minority, under the exact same situation, and there would be a two second delay before the riots broke out. But, we all know this is the enemy. The old white guy. The same guy that Don Lemon on CNN said was a terrorist. So, we must take his guns... and distribute them to the migrants that will be arriving... so they can protect themselves against others like this guy.
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If gun control laws controlled crime, we wouldn't need cops.
Quote:
Finally, I believe that punishing lawful gun owners by creating new, more onerous laws, and restricting Constitutionally guaranteed rights, when we already don't enforce the tens of thousands of gun laws we have on the books, is like beating your dog because the neighbor's dog shit in your yard.
"The Reaper"
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Old 9 November 2018, 08:41
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The Gestapo (I'm not talking about our cops with that reference, talking about the rat relatives/neighbors) couldn't have controlled the vast populations they did, without neighbors ratting on neighbors (denunciations).

If I lived in a state where this was legal, I'd first pay a lawyer to tell me exactly what my rights are. Then I'd make sure to have access to self protection that didn't reside in my house. Then I would get my shit back through the legal process. Denial of personal property without due process?
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Old 9 November 2018, 12:15
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Even without the "Red Flag" laws, a simply injunction against harassment can accomplish the same thing on a whim. All someone has to do is file a complaint alleging harassment and check a box on the form, and firearms can be confiscated. Then you have to go to court to get the injunction dissolved and firearms returned.

In the last 10 days I have defended the same client from two "neighbors" on just that sort of bullshit. The son of the first "neighbor" to file a complaint beat my client's head in with a baseball bat and is going to jail on a felony assault. Right after sentencing is when my client purportedly started harassing the "neighbor." Although I said it was revenge, the idiot judge didn't think that the "neighbor's" motive was relevant. I still won both times.
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Old 9 November 2018, 12:46
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Another reason to keep your gun ownership details to yourself. Don't go posting all over Facebook photos of your gun collection, as I see many people do.

Personally I do not believe one has any need to personally own a firearm, and I do not of course own any myself. Only time I have had a need for a firearm was when I was issued one in the Army. But now as a civilian I have no need for firearms. My house is a gun free zone.
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Old 9 November 2018, 13:12
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Personally I do not believe one has any need to personally own a firearm, and I do not of course own any myself. Only time I have had a need for a firearm was when I was issued one in the Army. But now as a civilian I have no need for firearms. My house is a gun free zone.
I couldn't agree more...right on, Brother!
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Old 10 November 2018, 05:02
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Personally I do not believe one has any need to personally own a firearm, and I do not of course own any myself. Only time I have had a need for a firearm was when I was issued one in the Army. But now as a civilian I have no need for firearms. My house is a gun free zone.
Exactly... what guns? I gave those away out of grief several years ago when there was that mass shooting. Guns are bad. Is that a warrant? No, have a nice day, Sir? Ma’am? I don’t want to assume your gender...

Also, this will inevitably make it to the USSC, which thankfully is currently heavy on the conservative side, and as it should be on the side of the Constitution. These laws are all kind of fucked up. Unfortunately, some more bad shit will happen before the course is corrected.
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Old 10 November 2018, 09:14
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The Gestapo (I'm not talking about our cops with that reference, talking about the rat relatives/neighbors) couldn't have controlled the vast populations they did, without neighbors ratting on neighbors (denunciations).

If I lived in a state where this was legal, I'd first pay a lawyer to tell me exactly what my rights are. Then I'd make sure to have access to self protection that didn't reside in my house. Then I would get my shit back through the legal process. Denial of personal property without due process?
The DEA does it every day. Confiscation of suspected drug related property or funds.

Administrative Forfeiture.
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