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  #61  
Old 30 July 2018, 18:08
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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PDWs

..as I am working up, the SOCNET PDW challenge
Course of Fire...

Given, the PS90 & MP7 (ie 5.7 & 4.6 cartridges) are in, what other calibers/barrel lengths would qualify?

Barrel length </= to 10.5"?

Pistol calibers >/= to .380?

Rifle cartridges? .223/5.56, .300 AAC, 6.8, 7.62x39..?

Optics..yes.

Score = time + published shot placement penalties.

Shot off-hand...start position, wpn loaded & butt stock on strong side hip...

Targets..3 6" steel, or paper targets, placed 1 meter apart, maybe 4' high. 2 hits required per tgt.

Distance. Shot @ 30, 40 & 50 yds?
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  #62  
Old 30 July 2018, 18:34
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OAL has to figure in, not just barrel length, IMO. Has to be shorter/more concealable than a SBR'd carbine. Say, 20" OAL max w/o stock extended. And, yep, that means you're going to have to SBR that PS90 of yours, glockcqc.
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  #63  
Old 31 July 2018, 08:42
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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PDW

That makes sense, w/added length of a suppressor, if used.

..Have the barrel (ie SBR) & suppressor muzzle attachment; pending, tax stamps

Good shooting.
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  #64  
Old 1 August 2018, 14:49
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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PDW

Thinking a little more on it. Adding a string @ 100 yds (ie supported..prone or kneeling), would also make sense.


Maybe, next week..do a little pre-SBR/suppressor "standards" check, for time & accuracy:)


Good shooting.
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  #65  
Old 1 August 2018, 15:09
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Structure it so that the course of fire reinforces why PDWs are good tools for certain duties/scenarios.

Start position is seated in the rear seat of a sedan, weapon oriented toward the foot well, between your feet, then engage targets out the side and rear windows of the vehicle.
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  #66  
Old 1 August 2018, 15:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Structure it so that the course of fire reinforces why PDWs are good tools for certain duties/scenarios.

Start position is seated in the rear seat of a sedan, weapon oriented toward the foot well, between your feet, then engage targets out the side and rear windows of the vehicle.
That makes sense.
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  #67  
Old 1 August 2018, 15:51
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Start position is seated in the rear seat of a sedan, weapon oriented toward the foot well, between your feet, then engage targets out the side and rear windows of the vehicle.

What I call a "Checkpoint Gun". Great for killing the guy in the window and make everyone else scatter so you can GTFO of Dodge. Not so great for a sustained fight.
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  #68  
Old 1 August 2018, 17:54
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PDWs are great for confined spaces and low-pro carry of something more substantial than a pistol. Beyond that, I'll take a carbine or rifle (or, better yet, a platoon of Rangers with fixed- and rotary-wing CAS on-call).
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  #69  
Old 2 August 2018, 19:51
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Hornady TAP 5.56 SBR is what you seek...best round for SBRs. They make both training and duty loadings.
Muchas tanx! The terminal data on their site puts the penetration right where it needs to be. Interesting data on velocity spreads with comparable barrels in length & twist.

I left the G36C and MP5 in the arms room and stuck with 416 shorty with a good projectile; idea of having to fight with a PDW always bugged me.

For those that are forced to use them...; God bless and stay off the X.
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  #70  
Old 3 August 2018, 14:13
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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PDW

The Barnes TSX "angle" has been worked Though, it also needs to come from Barnes, w/a little different cut. Might actually be out there, w/the 4.6 Barnes load; though, not for commercial purchase.

www.brassfetcher.com/Ballistic%20Gelatin%20Tests/5.7x28mm%2010%20Percent%20Ballistic%20Gelatin.html


Data is actually 20% gel & @ least one of the FN ammunition nomenclature is incorrect.

Good shooting.
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  #71  
Old 3 August 2018, 14:48
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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PDW

The "brass fetcher' data replicates what I've actually seen, harvesting 5 feral hogs w/my PS90, using SS 197 ammunition.

Boars are a little different than sows, armor/endorphin "wise." 2 of the 5, being boars. Having stuffed a 3" 12 gauge Brenneke slug into the chest cavity of a boar hog @ 5yds..and having him go 30yds.

As I've said, PDWs: PS90/P90, MP7..it is what it is; but, it is a lot more, than you think it is

Good shooting.
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  #72  
Old 3 August 2018, 19:08
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Are pistol caliber PDW's worth the weight and size as compared to a pistol?
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  #73  
Old 4 August 2018, 08:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
PDWs are great for confined spaces and low-pro carry of something more substantial than a pistol. Beyond that, I'll take a carbine or rifle (or, better yet, a platoon of Rangers with fixed- and rotary-wing CAS on-call).
Does someone make a holster for that?
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  #74  
Old 4 August 2018, 10:08
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Quote:
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Are pistol caliber PDW's worth the weight and size as compared to a pistol?
Ultimately, individual or unit preference/SOP will dictate. A lot of military elements have decided the answer is "yes."

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
Does someone make a holster for that?
A holster for a platoon of Rangers? I think we call that a deuce and a half (intentional omission of mom references).
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  #75  
Old 4 August 2018, 12:16
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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PDW

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunk View Post
Are pistol caliber PDW's worth the weight and size as compared to a pistol?
When DOD put the request to industry, for a new pistol. DOD also opened the door for pistol ammunition manufacturing companies to develop new bullet designs, that would enhance penetration. Yet also, create wound tracks replicating or improving upon those recorded by JHP bullet designs.

Having had the opportunity to see several of these & what they are capable of, I say yes. Adding; perhaps, 200-300 fps velocity w/a slightly longer barrel & the added stability/accuracy of a shoulder stock, very limited to no muzzle flash/signature @ night.


Whether those designs become available for commercial use? I don't know. Some could, others will be classified as "bonded" for LE/Mil use only.

It was interesting to see Black Hills release it's "Honey Badger" brand of pistol ammunition. Which, appears to have the more aggressive bullet cut that LeHigh Defense submitted for mil use.


Good shooting.
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  #76  
Old 8 August 2018, 23:35
foxcolt13 foxcolt13 is offline
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I want a PTR 32K.
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  #77  
Old 9 August 2018, 08:45
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(intentional omission of mom references).
FTW!
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  #78  
Old 9 August 2018, 15:40
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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PDWs

Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Structure it so that the course of fire reinforces why PDWs are good tools for certain duties/scenarios.

Start position is seated in the rear seat of a sedan, weapon oriented toward the foot well, between your feet, then engage targets out the side and rear windows of the vehicle.
Thinking about it, in "practical terms." Traveling, in the West side of Chicago or > 9 mile (ie Detroit), after dark. "That" would make extreme practical sense. Thinking, in "law terms" (ie Bob/Betty civilian w/a/several tax stamps)...not like, J walking illegal:)

W/that in mind, I believe I have come up w/something else, semi-innovative. That; perhaps, could also be used as a test including SBR/bull pup/rifles...and be legally practical:)

Good shooting
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  #79  
Old 9 August 2018, 18:15
foxcolt13 foxcolt13 is offline
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I want a PTR 32K.
thats the PTR 32kPDW
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  #80  
Old 9 August 2018, 18:47
Attila175 Attila175 is offline
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any opinions on the SIG Rattler?

5.5" barrel, 300 blk. 16" with stock folded, 23.5 with it unfolded.
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