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Old 25 October 2018, 23:22
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bobofthedesert bobofthedesert is offline
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CS Tear Gas Spray

That thread about the shopkeeper blasting the homeless drunken shoplifter got me thinking about having a use of force option other than G17/CQC-7/HTH. It has been a long time since I carried a chemical agent, like 20 yrs plus. At that time I used a pepper foam product, it wasn't near as susceptible to wind drift as the spray, good range, and it liquefied pretty quick, if you hit them in the forehead it ran down into the eyes, which I liked.....

But I started wondering, wouldn't CS be better? I see Sabre offers a combined OC/CS product, anyone have any experience with this or other stuff?
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Old 26 October 2018, 08:12
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Wasp spray.

What is the deal with those two shot pepper spray pistols?


https://www.amazon.com/Kimber-Pepper...91706218&psc=1
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Old 26 October 2018, 08:42
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Whitebean54 Whitebean54 is offline
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Im a fan of Vexor..... devils urine distilled.

Comes out of the can looking a lot like thin tomato paste. Can leave peeling skin. Also won’t turn that dude that’s fucked up on PCP into a tiki torch when you swap from spray to taser. If I understood the company rep correctly, the swap to food grade nitrogen from isopropyl alcohol allowed for a higher percentage of capsaicinoids and no flammability.

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When it’s time to gain compliance – choose VEXOR® Our formula's are available in various increasing capsaicinoid strengths that range from 0.18% up to 1.45% Our range of formulas allow you to select the intensity of our products based solely on your needs. Our professional pepper sprays are available in different sizes VEXOR® Undercover, MK2, MK3, MK4, MK6, MK9, MK46 , We offer a number of different spray patterns from Fog, Stream, Foam. You may also be interested in our Full Axis which is a stream product that you can spray in any direction "Even Up Side Down
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Old 26 October 2018, 08:56
low&slow low&slow is offline
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I use UDAP bear spray; I get new ones every year as I spend time in the Bob/Bitterroots...
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Old 26 October 2018, 09:06
Rich Gause Rich Gause is offline
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I have been sprayed with 4 times with different pepper sprays, the most effective was an OC/CS stream product called Freeze+P. The pepper foggers were relatively ineffective but good for making any enclosed area uncomfortable for everybody. All of them them got a lot easier to deal the more times I got sprayed. By the 4th time they really weren't effective at all. I was working security for the UMPD in Minneapolis and they offered me overtime plus 4 extra recovery hours to participate in their training exercises seemed like easy money at the time.
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Old 26 October 2018, 10:06
Stanimal Stanimal is offline
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Our favorite show stopper in the jail was the Protectojet… until we tried Sabre's Phantom OC. It's really kinda funny when an inmate in more afraid of the Mk9 canister than a fire extinguisher-sized one.
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Old 26 October 2018, 11:15
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I always carried CS spray. I forget what particular brand... Very handy, and even effects people doped up...

Reminds me of a FTX way back... I ended up surrounded by a prisoner snatch patrol. The patrol leader decided to travel light, and had the patrol leave their masks at the CP... I had mine, and a CS grenade. When they said "Hands up, drop your weapon" is when I pulled the pin and dropped it at my feet... They ran... fast. Always a big fan of CS after that.

Also, with CS, you can use it as an area weapon... ie; in a room or car. OC will contaminate, but not as well as CS. That can be good or bad, depending on if YOU have a mask or need to go into that room... Plus, OC wears off. CS... not so much. I remember washing my BDUs days after the CS room... I'd touch a pocket, then rub my eyes days later, and gas myself again...
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  #8  
Old 26 October 2018, 11:21
osubuckeye762 osubuckeye762 is offline
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At my last agency we used Sabre Red.

The Officers had good success with it and it is supposed to be Electronic immobilization device compatible, but I cannot verify that.

I wish I could remember what we got hit with in Riot Control Training and at the Academy. That stuff stayed with us for hours, and even acted up on me when i got home about 8 hours later.

It was a mixture of OC/CS.

So I was just digging around in my gear tote:
For the state we carried First Defense Mk3. (I thought it was weak. I say that because i am very very sensitive to this stuff and I was sprayed a few times by fellows Officers during arrests and it did not bother me as much as it should have)

I cannot remember what agency it was for but I was issued Bodyguard LE 10 Stream by Guardian. 10% OC and 2 mil.Scoville Heat Units. I have no reason I can think of to have this size of canister. I must have been raiding the arms/equipment room

Last edited by osubuckeye762; 26 October 2018 at 11:37.
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Old 26 October 2018, 11:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
I always carried CS spray. I forget what particular brand... Very handy, and even effects people doped up...

Reminds me of a FTX way back... I ended up surrounded by a prisoner snatch patrol. The patrol leader decided to travel light, and had the patrol leave their masks at the CP... I had mine, and a CS grenade. When they said "Hands up, drop your weapon" is when I pulled the pin and dropped it at my feet... They ran... fast. Always a big fan of CS after that.

Also, with CS, you can use it as an area weapon... ie; in a room or car. OC will contaminate, but not as well as CS. That can be good or bad, depending on if YOU have a mask or need to go into that room... Plus, OC wears off. CS... not so much. I remember washing my BDUs days after the CS room... I'd touch a pocket, then rub my eyes days later, and gas myself again...
That's some funny shit right there.....yeah there were area's of Benning where you'd find out real quick that CS had been used in the area sometime in the past....don't walk through/kick up any leaves.....

They wouldn't give us CS on exercises after someone brought one back from the field and fragged the bus stop on McNair where a couple of disliked NCO's were to be found waiting for the bus back to Dahlem every day.....so after that we would get the CS tablets for burning in gas chamber exercises and put them in smoke grenades....who worries about smoke....."these idiots are throwing smoke grenades......cough/gag..."gas, gas!"....too late...

I was hoping for pure CS, if anyone knows of one...but in the absence of that, it's looking like an OC/CS product in foam....Thanks Guys!
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Last edited by bobofthedesert; 26 October 2018 at 11:41.
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Old 26 October 2018, 17:36
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Its certainly no fun getting CS'd but it's funny as hell watching someone else.

Yea, I'm one of those guys who would light a smoke pot at the mount site and then pop a couple of CS grenades to mix in with it. Then LMAO when people go to their knees losing all their body fluids.
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Old 26 October 2018, 17:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
But I started wondering, wouldn't CS be better?
OC is good for shits'n'giggles. We used to have choir practice pepper spray fights quite regularly. Commissioned ranks could never figure out why our station's OC replacement requirements were the highest in the state. And it doesn't ruin your beer.

But can you purchase a "self-defense" style CS device?
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Old 26 October 2018, 19:33
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Damn. I was just talking to a Sheriff's Deputy a few hours ago and asked him what they used. He told me and I fucking forgot already. He said it was worse than being tased.

I'm fairly sure it's one of the above mentioned ones. I can text him and find out.
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  #13  
Old 26 October 2018, 19:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
Its certainly no fun getting CS'd but it's funny as hell watching someone else.
Their fault for not having their mask......

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
Yea, I'm one of those guys who would light a smoke pot at the mount site and then pop a couple of CS grenades to mix in with it. Then LMAO when people go to their knees losing all their body fluids.
As above.....

When I first got to Berlin Brigade, I volunteered for an Aggressor Detail, opposite the Brigade's Engineer Company doing their 4 day ARTEP. On the last night, we wired 3 yellow smokes that had been "laced" to the end of a mop handle, and a sapper team infiltrated their perimeter. All those pup tents in a nice little row.....2am, all sleeping in anticipation of endex in the AM....pull the pins, one guy lift the flap, hissing yellow smoke/CS is inserted for 3 one thousand, repeat as we work our way down the line, leaving chaos and suffering in our wake. Exited the other side of the perimeter after grabbing their company guide-on from in front of their CP. Got a nice little attaboy letter from our Battalion CO for that one in spite of their First Sergeant getting body checked for trying to repo his guide on by one of the "security" guys, whom he couldn't identify because of course we all had pro masks on.

Likewise the incident a day earlier where 2 German homo's who stepped into the bushes near the nude section of the Wansee beach walked into the kill zone of a 4 man ambush and were confronted by a very large Hawaiian of doubtful sanity (he had come with me all the way from Basic) jumped up firing at them with a blank equipped '60 at close range......that got a complaint but no consequences.

That was when I first got there, after I developed a girlfriend and stuff I had better things to do on the weekend....

But yeah, still hoping for a pure CS dispenser. If not, I'm sure OC/CS combo in a foam formulation will do fine, there's more than couple of manufacturers offer that. Gonna get the wife one too since she can't have a gun or a blade where she works, in her parked POV while there, etc..

Thanks all for the input.
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  #14  
Old 26 October 2018, 22:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
which I liked.....
Thought this was a pretty good articulatation, tell us how you really feel. Haha
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Old 27 October 2018, 05:27
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Defense Tech/First Defense is what the Navy used for instructor qual (getting sprayed) and during student training (spraying them) - I couldn't move for the first 10 seconds or so - so I think it did it's job. Eventually everyone "fought through" and completed the course, but not in the first seconds.
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Old 27 October 2018, 08:14
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Mil Grade Powdered CS, 8# container. Now that's the shit to fuck up a lot of people.
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