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Old 3 June 2018, 08:17
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SWAT Teammate Hurt

https://www.google.com/amp/fox8.com/...n-officer/amp/

While we executed a search/arrest warrant one of our guys (JR) was hit by the suspect with what the Doctors say a 12ga slug. Really, really solid dude. He was breaching the door when he was hit. We have a PA as our medic attached to the team, saved JR’s life, after dragging him back behind the MRAP. Couple surgeries down, a long road to recovery. LE career probably over.
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Old 3 June 2018, 08:20
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Prayers outbound.

Will be able to walk again?
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Old 3 June 2018, 08:23
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Prayers outbound.

Will be able to walk again?
Doc said his walking, “will probably be affected.”
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Old 3 June 2018, 08:58
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Godspeed Officer.
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Old 3 June 2018, 09:08
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Prayers lifted for a speedy and complete recovery!
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Old 3 June 2018, 09:26
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What a tragedy. There has to be a better way to arrest a guy like this than breaching when he's inside and armed. The outcome is almost predictable. What about the "have someone smack him behind the ear with a blackjack while he's buying his Big Gulp at 7-11" option?

I pray for the Officer's recovery, and I hope LEO's everywhere will learn from this horrible occurrence, because otherwise it was all for nothing. You gotta be smarter than the average bear......
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Old 3 June 2018, 12:49
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256, JR will be in our prayers.
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Old 3 June 2018, 12:59
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Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
What a tragedy. There has to be a better way to arrest a guy like this than breaching when he's inside and armed. The outcome is almost predictable. What about the "have someone smack him behind the ear with a blackjack while he's buying his Big Gulp at 7-11" option?

I pray for the Officer's recovery, and I hope LEO's everywhere will learn from this horrible occurrence, because otherwise it was all for nothing. You gotta be smarter than the average bear......
I’ve been apart of multiply arrest in how you describe. I prefer doing it “out in town” and away from the arsenal. It’s becoming a wider practiced technique. They may have wanted to but situation did not allow.
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Old 3 June 2018, 13:08
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Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
What a tragedy. There has to be a better way to arrest a guy like this than breaching when he's inside and armed. The outcome is almost predictable. What about the "have someone smack him behind the ear with a blackjack while he's buying his Big Gulp at 7-11" option?

I pray for the Officer's recovery, and I hope LEO's everywhere will learn from this horrible occurrence, because otherwise it was all for nothing. You gotta be smarter than the average bear......
Here's to a speedy and complete recovery.

As to taking him in public, you have to figure out your balance point between possibly letting him fire shots in a public setting with no real way to contain him or keep by standers generally safe vs. taking him in a (possibly) fortified structure where he is only directing shots at people that are prepared and willing to do the job.

Tough call to make.
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Old 3 June 2018, 19:38
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Here's to a speedy and complete recovery.

As to taking him in public, you have to figure out your balance point between possibly letting him fire shots in a public setting with no real way to contain him or keep by standers generally safe vs. taking him in a (possibly) fortified structure where he is only directing shots at people that are prepared and willing to do the job.

Tough call to make.
Agreed, but just to be clear, I was suggesting something a lot more low key than a traffic stop or something like that, I'm talking about him being trailed by people in plainclothes and non LE issue vehicles, with some guy who is "least likely to be made as a cop", as I said, waiting in line behind him in the store and when his hands are busy, smacking him behind the ear with a flat sap. Hard. The guy was known to have weapons and had threatened to use them against LEO's, as far as I'm concerned that buys a lot of latitude in the actual mechanics of taking him into custody. "Speed, surprise, violence of action." Identify yourself when he wakes up. "Oh by the way, we're the Police".....

Him with a fractured skull, concussion, whatever vs. that officer taking a 12 gauge slug is an easy choice for me. Thank God he wasn't better equipped and better trained, as anyone with military FIBA/MOBA/MOUT training knows its not beyond the realm of possibility that most of the stack could have died in the funnel. A 20rd mag dump of 7.62 could easily accomplish that, shield and plates or not.
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Last edited by bobofthedesert; 3 June 2018 at 19:48.
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Old 3 June 2018, 20:21
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Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
Agreed, but just to be clear, I was suggesting something a lot more low key than a traffic stop or something like that, I'm talking about him being trailed by people in plainclothes and non LE issue vehicles, with some guy who is "least likely to be made as a cop", as I said, waiting in line behind him in the store and when his hands are busy, smacking him behind the ear with a flat sap. Hard
There’d be a thread on here within the hour “police misconduct thread 47”. Or worse, get smoked by a CCW who is in line behind you.
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Old 3 June 2018, 23:53
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Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
What about the "have someone smack him behind the ear with a blackjack while he's buying his Big Gulp at 7-11" option?
Did exactly this just a few weeks ago. Task Force, all plain clothes in non-standard, unmarked vehicles. House is too isolated to approach safely and make the arrest. Mobile surveillance to a convenience store once he left. When he came out we approached him in the parking lot cutting of his avenue to get back inside. One of my team mates literally got hit in the side of the head with the 64 oz thirst-buster the guy was holding giving the bad guy time to draw his concealed pistol and get off a couple of shots (that thankfully went wild) before he got himself killed.

We were still criticized about attempting the arrest in public. Some people will NEVER be satisfied about the chosen solution.
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Old 4 June 2018, 00:14
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Did exactly this just a few weeks ago. Task Force, all plain clothes in non-standard, unmarked vehicles. House is too isolated to approach safely and make the arrest. Mobile surveillance to a convenience store once he left. When he came out we approached him in the parking lot cutting of his avenue to get back inside. One of my team mates literally got hit in the side of the head with the 64 oz thirst-buster the guy was holding giving the bad guy time to draw his concealed pistol and get off a couple of shots (that thankfully went wild) before he got himself killed.

We were still criticized about attempting the arrest in public. Some people will NEVER be satisfied about the chosen solution.
Good job Sir. I like to think I can tell the difference between police brutality and doing what it takes to get the job done. This was getting the job done.
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Old 4 June 2018, 15:13
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Mobile surveillance to a convenience store once he left. When he came out we approached him in the parking lot cutting of his avenue to get back inside. One of my team mates literally got hit in the side of the head with the 64 oz thirst-buster
We had this scenario with a guy but two of our rather large team mates in work clothes just straight up tackled him while he was filling up a Big Gulp. Other dudes immediately ran in the store in POLICE gear to make it clear what was happening. No guns drawn and no drama other than a big lump on the bad guys head. Funny thing was it was in the ghetto and half the people in the store just kept shopping as if nothing happened. Other half ran out and jumped in cars and hauled ass. Probably the ones holding.
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Old 4 June 2018, 15:47
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We had this scenario with a guy but two of our rather large team mates in work clothes just straight up tackled him while he was filling up a Big Gulp. Other dudes immediately ran in the store in POLICE gear to make it clear what was happening. No guns drawn and no drama other than a big lump on the bad guys head. Funny thing was it was in the ghetto and half the people in the store just kept shopping as if nothing happened. Other half ran out and jumped in cars and hauled ass. Probably the ones holding.

Sounds like my preferred technique.

If the guy is that dangerous, and you have the time available, you run technical and/or physical surveillance, build a Pattern of Life, figure out where he has the least advantage and you have the most advantage. It could be as simple as bumper locking him at a red light or tackling him in the 7-11 as said above. Dynamic Entry on his home gives him all the advantages of preparation, access to weapons, failed breach, funneling you, booby traps, escape routes, hostages and the list goes on. The USMS has this shit down to a science. Bangers and rams are fun, until they're not, and in my opinion should normally be the last option. If time and circumstance allow, stack the deck in your own favor.
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Old 22 September 2018, 09:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Did exactly this just a few weeks ago. Task Force, all plain clothes in non-standard, unmarked vehicles. House is too isolated to approach safely and make the arrest. Mobile surveillance to a convenience store once he left. When he came out we approached him in the parking lot cutting of his avenue to get back inside. One of my team mates literally got hit in the side of the head with the 64 oz thirst-buster the guy was holding giving the bad guy time to draw his concealed pistol and get off a couple of shots (that thankfully went wild) before he got himself killed.

We were still criticized about attempting the arrest in public. Some people will NEVER be satisfied about the chosen solution.
They are not mad at what you did, they are mad that the dude was held accountable and represented the constituency. They had to deflect their deliberate effort to prey on the suffering of the same. Ergo, they make it your fault.
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Old 22 September 2018, 11:31
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Now that JR is home and healing, I'll ask the obvious question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Did exactly this just a few weeks ago. Task Force, all plain clothes in non-standard, unmarked vehicles. House is too isolated to approach safely and make the arrest. Mobile surveillance to a convenience store once he left. When he came out we approached him in the parking lot cutting of his avenue to get back inside. One of my team mates literally got hit in the side of the head with the 64 oz thirst-buster the guy was holding giving the bad guy time to draw his concealed pistol and get off a couple of shots (that thankfully went wild) before he got himself killed.

We were still criticized about attempting the arrest in public. Some people will NEVER be satisfied about the chosen solution.
When will we as a civilized society start banning these assault sodas?!? What person could have any legitimate need for any thing large than a 12 oz soda??? Maybe the inner cities could have a limit of no larger than a 10 oz soda because they are so violent?? We could completely ban sodas in Chicago, but then there'd probably be a Carbonated Pipeline smuggling sodas in from Indiana. We'd need to have a one-soda-a-month law in Indiana to prevent this trafficking in sodas.

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Old 22 September 2018, 14:31
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Now that JR is home and healing, I'll ask the obvious question.

When will we as a civilized society start banning these assault sodas?!? What person could have any legitimate need for any thing large than a 12 oz soda??? Maybe the inner cities could have a limit of no larger than a 10 oz soda because they are so violent?? We could completely ban sodas in Chicago, but then there'd probably be a Carbonated Pipeline smuggling sodas in from Indiana. We'd need to have a one-soda-a-month law in Indiana to prevent this trafficking in sodas.

No one needs 64 ounces in a soda! Do it for the children! The crazy thing is that New York City has already tried this. Lol!
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Old 24 September 2018, 18:51
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Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
Now that JR is home and healing, I'll ask the obvious question.

When will we as a civilized society start banning these assault sodas?!? What person could have any legitimate need for any thing large than a 12 oz soda??? Maybe the inner cities could have a limit of no larger than a 10 oz soda because they are so violent?? We could completely ban sodas in Chicago, but then there'd probably be a Carbonated Pipeline smuggling sodas in from Indiana. We'd need to have a one-soda-a-month law in Indiana to prevent this trafficking in sodas.

They tried a soda tax in Cook County (ie Chicago) and it created more political unrest than any other issue.

Pookie kills Ray-Ray? WGAF. Add a penny per oz to the price of grape pop? REVOLUTION!
S/F....Ken M
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Old 3 June 2018, 09:20
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Prayers for a speedy and full recovery!
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