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  #21  
Old 11 May 2018, 13:10
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Originally Posted by Five-O View Post
If off duty....I could take that further and say IDGAF if he steals mentos.
Hahaha... No kidding
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  #22  
Old 11 May 2018, 14:11
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Originally Posted by tootall View Post
After giving that speech, one recruit sitting front and center tried to be the class clown and said he would never show a gang member respect, and proudly boasted that he would be the first in his class to pull a Use Of Force report number. Well, that class is now in FTO, and the above recruit WAS the first to pull a UF report number, and now has the reputation of being a hot head. All his FTO's are in agreement that he's on the short list.
I don't get it, he out and out told you that he wouldn't follow your advice, would be the first to get a UoF citation (all this while still at the academy) and then proceeds to do just that when he hit the streets.

Why is he on any list at all? It was my understanding that during the probationary period for a cop, which usually lasts 12-18 months, they can be let go for any reason or no reason at all. They don't even have to be brought before either their merit board or police commission, or whatever your town calls the body that usually decides hiring/firing matters for most police departments. During a probationary period, at least around here, a cop can be fired outright by his chief without any justification.

What else does this class clown have to do to convince anybody that at some point he's going to get himself, a colleague or a citizen hurt? It sounds like he was on track to do just that prior to even hitting the streets. Or is there some sort of sunk cost thinking going on, the idea that the city or town has already spent a lot of money getting him trained and they want to make good on that investment, even as the stock takes a dive during the initial "IPO".
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Last edited by Spinner; 11 May 2018 at 14:17.
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  #23  
Old 11 May 2018, 15:36
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Originally Posted by Spinner View Post

Why is he on any list at all? It was my understanding that during the probationary period for a cop, which usually lasts 12-18 months, they can be let go for any reason or no reason at all. They don't even have to be brought before either their merit board or police commission, or whatever your town calls the body that usually decides hiring/firing matters for most police departments. During a probationary period, at least around here, a cop can be fired outright by his chief without any justification.
I would never have believed in a million years that my agency would have "pushed through" some of the more recent turds we've had. The idea, atleast with some of them was, push them through and they will self select, and leave or atleast be a body that can handle minor shit and write reports.

It's a money and body thing. Our agency knows we have a 1/3 the bodies we need in my office and our workload has quadrupled. We are also looking at 20% of our commissioned work force set to retire in the next 9 months to a year from now.

Not saying it's right or I agree with it, but I can understand the numbers of it.
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  #24  
Old 11 May 2018, 16:29
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Originally Posted by 34RX View Post
I agree and it makes me think-Has anyone conducted scenarios where the officer is "off-duty" in training?
We did a blind use of force scenario last year. The LEO walks in on an off-duty/plain-clothes cop shooting a bad guy during an armed robbery in progress at a convenience store. After being the on-duty guy, you slick down and become the off-duty guy for the next iteration. Some excellent learning occurred.

We do an off-duty scenario every other year or so during our use of force scenarios.
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  #25  
Old 12 May 2018, 05:11
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Excellent, I like the rotation. Thanks Believeraz.
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  #26  
Old 13 May 2018, 13:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitebean54 View Post

It's a money and body thing. Our agency knows we have a 1/3 the bodies we need in my office and our workload has quadrupled. We are also looking at 20% of our commissioned work force set to retire in the next 9 months to a year from now.

Not saying it's right or I agree with it, but I can understand the numbers of it.
That definitely plays a role, perhaps a bigger one than simply writing off any expense or time put into training a recruit.

Chicago PD right now is a prime example, retirements are accelerating so they're pushing through more classes lately, and it also gives the mayor some slight of hand cover when he proclaims that he's "adding" a certain number of police officers.

What he doesn't say is that the number of new recruits is barely keeping pace with attrition of officers retiring, leaving the department for other reasons, etc. One of the reasons Chicago's homicide clearance rate is so abysmal is because they are so understrength at that position. Less than 1000 detectives on their department right now, when they should have twice that many.

I saw an interview with a retired chief of detectives, they simply don't have the manpower or time to dive into many of the cases. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the files get buried in the coming years as cold cases. In effect, the people doing the killing are getting away with it, and they know it.
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  #27  
Old 14 May 2018, 09:27
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Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
I don't get it, he out and out told you that he wouldn't follow your advice, would be the first to get a UoF citation (all this while still at the academy) and then proceeds to do just that when he hit the streets.

Why is he on any list at all? It was my understanding that during the probationary period for a cop, which usually lasts 12-18 months, they can be let go for any reason or no reason at all. They don't even have to be brought before either their merit board or police commission, or whatever your town calls the body that usually decides hiring/firing matters for most police departments. During a probationary period, at least around here, a cop can be fired outright by his chief without any justification.

What else does this class clown have to do to convince anybody that at some point he's going to get himself, a colleague or a citizen hurt? It sounds like he was on track to do just that prior to even hitting the streets. Or is there some sort of sunk cost thinking going on, the idea that the city or town has already spent a lot of money getting him trained and they want to make good on that investment, even as the stock takes a dive during the initial "IPO".
The problem is we are around 100 officers under staffed. The city is scrambling to hire and replace retirees, but due to the recent short sited administration that recently left, we are short staffed to the point that it's dangerous.

The officer referenced is still on FTO. Being in a Use of Force incident is looked at case by case. It was my understanding that his first UF was justified, and since that incident he has calmed down a bit. He's a young guy and wanted to be the class clown. After dealing with the reality of working patrol in an inner-city environment, I guess he's changed his tune. But... that doesn't erase his previous attitude that has given him a crappy reputation, and he will have to work twice as hard to erase that. From what I've been told, he isn't the brightest bulb and struggles with some pretty basic shit.

Unfortunately, it is extremely hard for cops in FTO to be fired, unless they commit a crime, just wash out from not responding to training or by their own decision. Historically, the city HR department, and the department administration has always wanted the FTO's to give the probationary officers the benefit of the doubt and keep bouncing the prob officers from FTO to FTO until they get exceeding marks on their daily observation reports.

Bottom line is that the bean counters are looking at the fact that if ONE officer is fired, the car he/she isn't filling creates overtime.
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  #28  
Old 14 May 2018, 14:51
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I hear you tootall, as I mentioned in a subsequent post it's an issue that more departments probably are facing these days. Given the tone and tenor of attitudes toward police in Chicago, I'm surprised they can get anybody to take their test.

And I'm not just talking about the people who live here, I'm also including the brass they report to and the politicians who are always eager to throw one of them under the bus if it suits their political agenda.

It's always been that way to certain extent, it just seems to have gotten worse in the more recent past, especially with the explosion of social media.
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  #29  
Old 14 May 2018, 23:29
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Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
...Given the tone and tenor of attitudes toward police in Chicago, I'm surprised they can get anybody to take their test...
10/15 years ago, there would hundreds, in some cases I've heard of close to a thousand lining up to take the entrance test just for a few dozen spots. Now, we are lucky to get 100 to show up to take the test. And when the backgrounds are finished there are barely enough suitable recruits to fill an academy class.
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  #30  
Old 16 May 2018, 06:35
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Originally Posted by Whitebean54 View Post
I would never have believed in a million years that my agency would have "pushed through" some of the more recent turds we've had. The idea, atleast with some of them was, push them through and they will self select, and leave or atleast be a body that can handle minor shit and write reports.

It's a money and body thing. Our agency knows we have a 1/3 the bodies we need in my office and our workload has quadrupled......
I second this. I assist teaching at various sections at one of the local academies. Unfortunately, in the last few years law enforcment applications have reduced by over 80% nationwide. For example, it wouldnít be uncommon to have 80-120 applications for one class. Now we are lucky to get about 15, and most of which... arenít qualified to be law enforcement officers because of their backgrounds. In this state, a person isnít committing shoplifting until they have actually crossed the threshold of the store and attempted to leave with unpaid property. Second... he should have spoken to the man prior to. This was a bit premature and I donít see anything in this video that warrants it. But it also appears to be poor training perhaps in conjunction with bad judgement.
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