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  #61  
Old 13 September 2014, 18:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Cat6 for PoE IP Cams, either weather rated or in bird houses (or dedicated housings if you're rich). I would not recommend burying USB extensions. USB is good for "under the eaves" cameras though (all of the USB connections will be in your attic, protected).



If you are DIY'ing it, and going with what I use, you need:

A computer, connected to the internet, to act as the host for the Security Camera software - I use Blue Iris.

Cameras that work for you.

Cables to run to them, either Cat6 for PoE, or USB Extensions.

Either the main or a secondary monitor in the main living area, so you can quickly see why the cameras alerted. Or a tablet running the mobile app - but a 24/7 tablet will need to be plugged in - I just find running an LCD screen, easier.

To reach from outside your network, you need a Dynamic DNS hostname, and firewall rules to allow you to get to the cameras from your phone.

If you want backup recordings, you don't need a neighbor, you can hide a small laptop or NAS device, anywhere in your house.

If you stick a dial up modem in there, yeah, it can call you - but in 2014, I don't see the benefit over IP (SMS, Email, Live Viewing).

I don't know how pre-built/packaged systems work, so this ^ is if you are DIY'ing.
...................

Recently had a vandalism occurrence, so went the DYI route.

Blue Iris, Old quad core, new graphics card for extra monitor/s.

Nice because instead of being stuck with some companies choice of cameras,
I bought different cameras, mixing and matching to taste.
Found cameras I like= HIKVISION, and cameras I don't, eg; Foscam.

Blue Iris now supports 64 Cameras. I have 6 total and am running about 86% CPU when the Monitor is up entertaining me and about 45% When the program is closed. By Closed I mean it also runs as a background Win32 service and that is easily settable in Blue Iris. Also using 28% of my 8GB of RAM in Win32 mode. Blue Iris doesn't touch the Graphics card really, So that is soley for the monitor/s.

I did the wireless thing with the foscams, but the PPoE with the other cams are the way to go. Does require a port injector and a Ethernet switch, but still, works nicely and I can "see" them on my network, vs. The wireless foscams which I cannot-ever see, even though they sometimes work/Sometimes Don't.

I have two cams on 50ft. PP0E and one on 100ft. of Cat6/PP0E.

Blue Iris is really decent and one of the reasons why is the help funx. Each category or page or what have you in the interface has a help icon. If you click that icon it opens help for that very page you are on. Damn thoughtful.
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  #62  
Old 2 November 2014, 22:58
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Stepping up to an IP based camera system and have some questions if I may. I've searched for setup info and surprisingly there's not much out there for this, a bit on IP phones, not so much on IP security cameras.

On the cat6 cable from camera to POE injector/switch, is the cats6 straight through or crossover cable? I have runs up to 100ft with most about 50ft. monoprice.com for the cables. Can I couple 2 cat6 cables on my one long run (125 dt) down driveway?

Using the Hikvision bullet 3.0 meg cameras.

I want to run about 10 cameras into a 24-Port Gigabit PoE Smart Switch like this. I'd like a 12 or 16 port switch for future add ons but cant seem to be able to find one, it jumps from 8 port to 24 ports it seems. http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-ProSAF...E3D4YW7HKCSW6A

I have an i7 desktop with a fairly fast and robust GeoForce 560 graphics card. 16 gigs of RAM. I plan on using Blue Iris for software and plan to record in 720P. I need a 4 TB HDD for video, anyone have a HDD they like? 7200RPM right? Have SSDs come down in price enough to go that route for more speed?

My IP is cable from TW with a modem/switch with 4 ports. Do I run the video cam switch cat6 to the desktop and then back out to the Internet or do I run from the video cam switch to the TW modem/switch?

Thanks.
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  #63  
Old 3 November 2014, 00:10
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I've been doing some light research and have somewhat decided on Samsung HD Smartcams and Blue Iris. However, I also want/need a longer range camera to point at an avenue of approach. Any recommendations for a camera that could say, read a license plate at 100-150m? Maybe less?
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  #64  
Old 3 November 2014, 01:28
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I want the FOV (125 degrees) on them Samsung Smartcams but I read that they were a PITA to get to work with Blue Iris or any software that wasnt Samsung. Have you found otherwise Massgrunt?

I havent seen any cameras with that range you're looking for, then agin I'm looking at cameras that are $200 and less. Maybe high end would have something with the much optical zoom.
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  #65  
Old 3 November 2014, 02:24
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Blue Iris lists the older Samsungs as compatible but not the newer ones so far.
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

- "The Dogs of War" by Frederick Forsyth
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  #66  
Old 3 November 2014, 04:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
On the cat6 cable from camera to POE injector/switch, is the cats6 straight through or crossover cable? I have runs up to 100ft with most about 50ft. monoprice.com for the cables. Can I couple 2 cat6 cables on my one long run (125 dt) down driveway?
125ft is well under the catchment limit for Cat6, so you should be good to go. I'd pay attention to any electrical conduits nearby, however.
Since there is a switch, straight cable, not crossover.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
I have an i7 desktop with a fairly fast and robust GeoForce 560 graphics card. 16 gigs of RAM. I plan on using Blue Iris for software and plan to record in 720P. I need a 4 TB HDD for video, anyone have a HDD they like? 7200RPM right? Have SSDs come down in price enough to go that route for more speed?
Depends on your retention requirement.
I might be inclined to have an SSD for housing the most recent records, and a rotational disk for archival purposes (e.g. everything old than a day copied off from the SSD to the HDD). RAID(-1) the HDD if you can. I opt for Samsung SSD where I can. HDD is a crapshoot - at least the consumer-grade HDD you'd be buying for this project is. I'll never forgive Seagate for incorporating Maxtor's shitness into its production, so, Western Digital gets my HDD business (what little I have to give them in the first place). I've had ok luck with Hitachi HDD, but they're becoming harder to source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
My IP is cable from TW with a modem/switch with 4 ports. Do I run the video cam switch cat6 to the desktop and then back out to the Internet or do I run from the video cam switch to the TW modem/switch?
The setup that makes sense *to me* would be to hook the desktop up to the same switch that the cameras are hooked up to, and then run a cable from that switch to the TW modem/router. No point in traffic traversing the TW switch for any of this if you don't have to.


Plenty of commentary for others to add, but that's *my* view of things.
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  #67  
Old 3 November 2014, 13:29
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Cat6 is overkill unless you have a reason. Network traffic is going to slow to the lowest common-denominator. If you already have Cat6, that's fine, but you can save money by going with Cat5e.

Have all cameras go to the switch, and the switch within a DMZ (I don't know how your network is configured).

[Home Network] -> [Firewall/DMZ] -> [Camera Switch] -> [Firewall/DMZ]-> [Cable Switch] -> [Internet]
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  #68  
Old 3 November 2014, 14:11
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When Cat 6 can be had for so cheap now, I don't see why I'd ever run Cat5 again. I do on occasion run RG6 to cameras depending on the need

This site has a lot of home use things that are helpful as well.

http://www.firefold.com/cat6-bulk-cable-solid-blk

some of the network things are Chinese junk, The mounts, key stone jacks, wall mounts and cabling are all gtg.

My Fluke Network certifier can't tell the difference from this cable and panduit all certifies out to cat6 standard.

Another site I've used in the past for cameras and what not.

https://www.atdcomputers.com/cameras-cctv.html

The DIY kits are inexpensive and work well, some run IP some run RG6. But the camera pictures and DVRs are great.

I've used the Vonnic brand around the house and for customers no complaints yet.


Not affiliated with these sites, just posting up where I shop because I'm a cheap IT guy at times.
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  #69  
Old 3 November 2014, 14:50
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That is a good price. The rating (550MHz) on it is good too. Not a fan for unshielded. If you're going to install cable, electrical conduits can mess with it.

Thanks for the link.
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  #70  
Old 3 November 2014, 15:48
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It's rare that we run into shielded, special use case near high voltage. But rarely see shielded cat6 for data or voice.

Mostly see the shielded in the controls arena.
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  #71  
Old 3 November 2014, 16:27
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When I first started building, CAT5 was for phones and RG6 was for cable TV. It a little while before we learned that data is data...

CAT5 or 6 or... It is my understanding that the "twisting of the pairs" is paramount to its performance. IOW, if you are cutting to length and adding connectors or hard-wiring, if you don't twisted those pairs properly everything will be way slower than the spec.
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  #72  
Old 3 November 2014, 17:32
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Ah crap, I totally got that wrong. Unshielded twisted-pair is what you want.
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  #73  
Old 3 November 2014, 18:36
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Thanks for the help on the questions.

From what I'm reading SSDs are not the best for security cam recording because of the constant overwrite of the video damaging sectors on the drive. Some say the damage would take a couple years and some say it would never been an issue.

WD has a new 4TB Purple "Surveillance" HDD that users are saying works a lot better, no dropped frames, lower power consumption and can store 300 hrs of HD video. Anyone see any issues running just this one drive to store my video on a desktop? I plan to use motion sense record mode, record will not be 24/7. http://www.amazon.com/Intellipower-s...cm_wl_huc_item.

Massgrunt, on them new Samsung HD cameras, can you run them with POE? I looked at Samsungs website and they don't say. It appears they take a 5vdc power supply. I want a couple cameras with the wide 128 degrees FOV those Samsung cameras have.

Now to just pick a POE/switch.

On the cat6 DIY, I've read some cat6 cable wont fit into some RJ45 connector bodies, anyone run into that issue? The twisting of pairs in important from my experience so I may just go with pre made cable. A 100 ft cat6 is $13.50 at monoprice, 50ft is $7.55.
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  #74  
Old 3 November 2014, 19:54
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If your on a budget you can do the Poe injectors. Then a normal switch. A good Poe switch can be expensive.

There are some 1/100/1000 switches with 12/24 ports on that website I linked. Trendnet is economy Chinese stuff.

Linksys and netgear make good home use switches. Sometimes you can find deals on eBay on off lease business stuff

8/12/24/48 is the usual switch ports

You can use cat5 ends with SOME cat 6 cable. It's all based on diameter of the jacket. Sometimes it goes well sometimes not so well.

If you have patience and time you'll save money making the cables yourself. One box of cable would be all you need.

Most home centers have cat5/6 ends and tools at good prices

If you like tools the ez branded tools make termination a breeze
http://www.primuscable.com/store/p/1...FZaCaQodZysA3A

With the ez ends. Use the link for the model number find it cheaper else where


I might have a crimped I can send you on loan if we can work that out. Let me know if you're interested
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  #75  
Old 4 November 2014, 00:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
I've been doing some light research and have somewhat decided on Samsung HD Smartcams and Blue Iris. However, I also want/need a longer range camera to point at an avenue of approach. Any recommendations for a camera that could say, read a license plate at 100-150m? Maybe less?
your gonna need a lens of 100mm or more, something like this one: http://www.rugged-cctv.com/hd-security-camera.shtml

Panasonic makes good sensors. I have no idea if this particular camera is any good at all. But I do know you have to have a long lens.
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  #76  
Old 4 November 2014, 00:42
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Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
Stepping up to an IP based camera system and have some questions if I may. I've searched for setup info and surprisingly there's not much out there for this, a bit on IP phones, not so much on IP security cameras.

On the cat6 cable from camera to POE injector/switch, is the cats6 straight through or crossover cable? I have runs up to 100ft with most about 50ft. monoprice.com for the cables. Can I couple 2 cat6 cables on my one long run (125 dt) down driveway?

Using the Hikvision bullet 3.0 meg cameras.

I want to run about 10 cameras into a 24-Port Gigabit PoE Smart Switch like this. I'd like a 12 or 16 port switch for future add ons but cant seem to be able to find one, it jumps from 8 port to 24 ports it seems. http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-ProSAF...E3D4YW7HKCSW6A

I have an i7 desktop with a fairly fast and robust GeoForce 560 graphics card. 16 gigs of RAM. I plan on using Blue Iris for software and plan to record in 720P. I need a 4 TB HDD for video, anyone have a HDD they like? 7200RPM right? Have SSDs come down in price enough to go that route for more speed?

My IP is cable from TW with a modem/switch with 4 ports. Do I run the video cam switch cat6 to the desktop and then back out to the Internet or do I run from the video cam switch to the TW modem/switch?

Thanks.
Just a word on your Desktop/Graphics card, RAM.

Blue Iris is not using my graphics card to speak of. It also isn't using my RAM. All it appears to want to use is the CPU's. And it is intensive on those with only 5 or 6 cams going. Like 85%.
It doesn't overheat mind you, but it also doesn't do the Desktop as a whole any favors. When I close the program and allow it to run as a background Win32 program, it settles down to about 35% or so. Older Quadcore no doubt, but still. . .

X2 on Hikvision! Also x2 on backing up files and reducing storage as needed daily/often.
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  #77  
Old 4 November 2014, 21:33
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Depends on your retention requirement. I might be inclined to have an SSD for housing the most recent records, and a rotational disk for archival purposes (e.g. everything old than a day copied off from the SSD to the HDD). RAID(-1) the HDD if you can.
RAID 1 right? To run 2 HDD in Raid config do I still need a controller card like the olden days or do they do it in the software now? Window 7 Home edition on this box.

The SSD boot drive on this box is an IBM 120G. How big a boot drive to record 1 day of video with no grunting from the drive? Anybody have any favorite SSDs they like?

Thanks again for the help, I'm an old RF troop that's built a few desktops by never a network or used IP gear.
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  #78  
Old 5 November 2014, 06:39
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RAID 1 right? To run 2 HDD in Raid config do I still need a controller card like the olden days or do they do it in the software now? Window 7 Home edition on this box.
Depends on the machine, *some* motherboards have onboard "fakeraid" controllers - downside of which is, largely, if the motherboard itself dies the data may not be portable to a new motherboard.

You may be in luck and have an onboard controller. It's not a proper hardware RAID controller (in spite of vendors trying to insist as much), but it'll do the job.

Not strictly a requirement mind you. I mean you could always just make backups the old fashioned way. But RAID Is a nice warm comfort blanket, if the budget affords.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
The SSD boot drive on this box is an IBM 120G. How big a boot drive to record 1 day of video with no grunting from the drive? Anybody have any favorite SSDs they like?
No experience with IBM SSDs. Will say newer SSDs' seem to do a better job wear-leveling, but, I still don't trust a disk that's more than half full, even if it has (virtually) no moving parts. I finally took the SSD plunge in spite of my crypto concerns, and went with a 256GB Samsung 840 Evo. So far so good, and I'm damn hard on disks for a home user.

IF you're only triggering the capture based on motion, then 120GB should manage just dandy. Someone else could probably proffer an actual formula for calculating this, but I personally would roll with units of measurement I'm familiar with - as such, fuzzy math of "a 2 hour DVD, ripped and transcoded, is about 800MB". Or so I remember from college... If I had 6 hours aggregate per camera, call it 4.8GB (yeah yeah, lazy math - fuck math). Call it 8 cameras, that'd be 40GB per day, + 20GB (static) for the OS+programs

You aren't going to be recording video a)at those dimensions, b)for that duration.

Pretty ghetto assed formula to use, but using Ghetto Assed Storage Calculator, 120GB sounds more than adequate for a temporary holding place before you shuffle it off to more permanent storage.
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  #79  
Old 5 November 2014, 10:47
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. . .
The SSD boot drive on this box is an IBM 120G. How big a boot drive to record 1 day of video with no grunting from the drive? Anybody have any favorite SSDs they like?
. . .
I've been running 1 SSD in the Blue Iris box now for going on 5 years. And run two more in this box I am using presently.

All are Intel SSD 160GB drives and I've had no issues.

I will tell you this. When I was editing VIDEO right regularly And using RAM intensive programs, bring assets in and rendering them out I tested using SSD to SSD, SSD to HDD, HDD to HDD and HDD to SSD. I found little to no difference in those render queues. This also reflects my write/overwrite on the SSD as well. A non issue for me.
I don't think with the config you mentioned earlier that the HDD/SSD is going to be an issue. I do think you may find that your CPU will melt down though if you're talking triggering all cams from one or even if you had half of your cams triggered and recording, re; 24 cams. And that's just going from my CPU monitor and my 6 cams.
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Old 5 November 2014, 11:21
Saw7616 Saw7616 is offline
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There are number of online resources to calculate storage for video storage. The main site I use and trust is having issues.

http://www.supercircuits.com/resourc...age-calculator

Here is one I found quickly and it looks decent.

I've got over 400 cameras I'm responsible for with the majority of them being IP based cameras. I'm pushing close to 18tb for the 30 retention requirements.

I will tell you this, that just recording on motion is the ticket. For storage concerns.
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