Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > U.S. Army Special Operations > Special Forces

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 23 May 2016, 00:30
Raven Bear Raven Bear is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 6
Bonuses and G-RAP

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minut...investigation/

http://www.calvetsforjustice.com

California Veterans for Justice displays the issues of an SF Soldier after the state of California decided to recoup a bonus that was initially thought to be legit.

This MSG from the 60 minutes episode thought he was also doing the right thing.

This is simply an FYI of what is happening in the ARNG.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 23 May 2016, 02:46
Cass's Avatar
Cass Cass is offline
Valhalla July 4, 2016 RIP Frogman
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Valhalla
Posts: 5,933
Raven Bear
Go back here and Introduce yourself or your posts shall be taken down.
http://socnet.com/showthread.php?p=1058564482#post1058564482

Last edited by The Fat Guy; 23 May 2016 at 08:24.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24 May 2016, 10:56
KMP KMP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 25
S-1 processes in the Army and specifically the Guard are not properly run?

Unbelievable.

And the links do not seem to mention anything about G-RAP bonuses, in which I am not sure who is more at fault, the management that created a program that a five year old could figure how to game or the thousands of Soldiers who followed their eighth Army Value, "get what you can get."

To add some substance to this thread I reenlisted in 2006 for that sweet 15K in Iraq and no one is coming for me, maybe it's an issue that dude is now at least 30 years of service, so in 2016 he was at 20 years of service. Hot tip here sports fans, the Guard does not pay reenlistment bonuses that late in careers, not even during war. I am all in favor of a guy getting a bonus, and no doubt he earned it, but the words on the contract should have tipped him off that this might happen.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24 May 2016, 14:30
Tripod's Avatar
Tripod Tripod is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oak Island, NC
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMP View Post
S-1 processes in the Army and specifically the Guard are not properly run?

Unbelievable.

And the links do not seem to mention anything about G-RAP bonuses, in which I am not sure who is more at fault, the management that created a program that a five year old could figure how to game or the thousands of Soldiers who followed their eighth Army Value, "get what you can get."

To add some substance to this thread I reenlisted in 2006 for that sweet 15K in Iraq and no one is coming for me, maybe it's an issue that dude is now at least 30 years of service, so in 2016 he was at 20 years of service. Hot tip here sports fans, the Guard does not pay reenlistment bonuses that late in careers, not even during war. I am all in favor of a guy getting a bonus, and no doubt he earned it, but the words on the contract should have tipped him off that this might happen.
Saw this report, and yes a NG SF MSG was one of the soldiers involved, and no it was not a reenlistment bonus he was ACQUITTED of unethically getting.

This doesn't need to be in the SF forum - and since the MSG was acquitted in court of law no more speculation needs to be made about any guilt/innocence/ or why he did what he did. You need to get your facts straight if you are going to post in this area any time in the future
__________________
If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24 May 2016, 21:51
Raven Bear Raven Bear is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cass View Post
Raven Bear
Go back here and Introduce yourself or your posts shall be taken down.
http://socnet.com/showthread.php?p=1058564482#post1058564482
Complete.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24 May 2016, 21:58
Raven Bear Raven Bear is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 6
Tripod, the link regarding the MSG and G-RAP was for context. I have my facts straight since I am also one of many SF that are currently paying back a bonus. No, the CAARNG bonus issue is not solely an SF issue but has affected many from A/5-19.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25 May 2016, 00:08
KMP KMP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 25
Per the link from the original post-

2. Get Robert Richmond's petition passed. Richmond is a thirty-year Army veteran who served in Iraq and Afghanistan in a Special Forces unit. The state has come after him for $15,000 that he was offered as a reenlistment bonus in 2006. Richmond's petition aims to get the federal government to stop California from its collection efforts.

And if you click on the link within that page you will go to a petition on change.org that again states-

"The CA Army National Guard offered bonuses to soldiers who had specifically needed job skills, and were willing to sign up for 3-or 6 -year enlistments from 2006 to 2010"

Instead of accusing one another of not have their facts straight maybe we should use this opportunity to encourage younger members of the SF Regiment to read your contract or any other legal document you are a party to, if there is language that is inaccurate but benefits you, you have two options.

1. Bring it to someone's attention
2. Ignore it, hope for the best and be prepared to deal with the consequences a decade from now.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25 May 2016, 07:02
Tripod's Avatar
Tripod Tripod is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oak Island, NC
Posts: 2,787
The OP referenced the 60 Minutes piece, and it is the first link he provided - which was about G-RAP. The only SF guy in that piece was MSG Wilson and the money he had received as recruiting bonuses. He went to trial - and was quickly acquitted.

That is what I was referring to.
__________________
If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself

Last edited by Tripod; 25 May 2016 at 07:15.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 25 May 2016, 07:23
Tripod's Avatar
Tripod Tripod is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oak Island, NC
Posts: 2,787
As for the bonuses - so there is a handful of guys from A/5/19 that got into trouble with the state of California for getting bonuses they received? My first thought/question is - where was the CoC in making sure their guys didn't step off into a pile of dog shit once the realization was made that it could be potential trouble? Or did the guys in the unit all reenlist at the same time while deployed?
__________________
If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 25 May 2016, 08:07
Hot Mess's Avatar
Hot Mess Hot Mess is offline
In Vino Veritas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Where you vacation
Posts: 11,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
As for the bonuses - so there is a handful of guys from A/5/19 that got into trouble with the state of California for getting bonuses they received? My first thought/question is - where was the CoC in making sure their guys didn't step off into a pile of dog shit once the realization was made that it could be potential trouble? Or did the guys in the unit all reenlist at the same time while deployed?
I'm one of those guys... Although it's been 6-7 months since I've heard anything about it. The company was deployed when I got my bonus and I was in the Q. The rear D was... Yeah, not so great on that. I let the rear d know my bonus was double what it should have been and all I got was, "it's probably a special skills bonus"

Here's a catch 22. To receive some bonuses you need to be MOS Q'd within 12 or 18 mos (I forget). The Q in itself was 15 mos for me with no recycles and almost no waiting in between phases. So if one enlists for an 18 series MOS they still have to do SFAS, graduate, get to the Q, and then finish. How the fuck do you do that in 18 mos

Like just about everything in the CANG it's a pile of shit.
__________________
Come on boys, you got to do it right, pray to the moon in the middle of the night
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 25 May 2016, 08:38
Tripod's Avatar
Tripod Tripod is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oak Island, NC
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
I'm one of those guys... Although it's been 6-7 months since I've heard anything about it.

Here's a catch 22. To receive some bonuses you need to be MOS Q'd within 12 or 18 mos (I forget). The Q in itself was 15 mos for me with no recycles and almost no waiting in between phases. So if one enlists for an 18 series MOS they still have to do SFAS, graduate, get to the Q, and then finish. How the fuck do you do that in 18 mos

Like just about everything in the CANG it's a pile of shit.
I was actually just wondering if you might have been tied up in this. Lol. 18 months to finish the whole enchilada?? Sheesh - won't happen often I would think. 18D's can fagettaboutit for sure.

I would hope you were wise enough to see such a shit pile of money to realize that maybe you should hold some back just in case. Although I can see how some young guys would be like "Wooohooo! New 4x4 truck, build that AR I always wanted, go to the casino, buy some new FUBU outfits, and party like it's 1999" (Prince cross thread points).

Was this a lot of guys in the unit or just a few?
__________________
If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 25 May 2016, 12:44
Hot Mess's Avatar
Hot Mess Hot Mess is offline
In Vino Veritas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Where you vacation
Posts: 11,002
Meh, it happened 8 years ago. I used 90% of that money to pay down some bills so it's a interest free loan if they do ask for some of it back. At this point if I hear anything I'll lawyer up.
__________________
Come on boys, you got to do it right, pray to the moon in the middle of the night
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 25 May 2016, 22:45
riptide riptide is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: TX
Posts: 194
This is crap. Pay back the amount plus 28 percent interest! The government is out of control
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 25 May 2016, 23:27
Raven Bear Raven Bear is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 6
There were many back stops that were missed. The review process was disregarded after the contract left the desk of MSG Jaffe (see link). My contract had the MOS changed to 11 series (obvious white out) when I was in an SF unit and 18 Series. My contract wasn't signed nor dated. Another soldier in our unit received a note saying his contract was GTG. "Add you name and SSN. DON'T SIGN OR ADD THE DATE." Why do you think they would want the contract unsigned?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/poli...e24596350.html
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 26 May 2016, 09:15
Tripod's Avatar
Tripod Tripod is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oak Island, NC
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven Bear View Post
My contract had the MOS changed to 11 series (obvious white out) when I was in an SF unit and 18 Series. My contract wasn't signed nor dated.
Your profile says you commanded A/5/19. I wasn't aware officers got reenlistment bonuses
__________________
If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 26 May 2016, 22:11
ag4tj's Avatar
ag4tj ag4tj is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: out of town
Posts: 86
It's an unfortunate situation, but I have no sympathy.
The NGB Bonus Addendum is a 5 to 7 page document, requiring the Soldier to initial next to the paragraphs that apply to his contract, attesting that he has read and understood them, and attests them to be true in his case.
Richmond would have had to initial a paragraph attesting that he had no more than 12 (or 14, depending on the version) total years of service at the time of the contract.
At that time he was already over 20 years, and aware of that fact.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the 18 yr old who says his recruiter lied to him about his contract. But after that, in the Army and in life, the contract is the contract, regardless of what someone is telling you to the contrary.

Read before you sign, comprehend before you sign, keep a copy of what you sign, hand receipts, evals, contracts, etc.

Take responsibility for your own military career, (it's really not someone else's job), know your requirements, and figure out how to find the answers on your own, the Army has made it available on digits since the late 1990's, and every level of NCOES has taught you how to find the answers since NCOES was invented.

Follow those two rules, and you'll be pleasantly surprised how much easier everything gets.
__________________
"We don't thrive on military acts. We do them because we have to, and thank God we are efficient."
--Golda Meir
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 27 May 2016, 00:03
Hot Mess's Avatar
Hot Mess Hot Mess is offline
In Vino Veritas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Where you vacation
Posts: 11,002
I'll agree with you 100%. My issue is if you signed for a bonus of $7,500, were given $15,000, but the .mil wants $15,000 back. I'm responsible for what I'm responsible for. Of course I'm letting sleeping dogs lie on this issue.
__________________
Come on boys, you got to do it right, pray to the moon in the middle of the night
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 27 May 2016, 09:21
Tripod's Avatar
Tripod Tripod is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oak Island, NC
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag4tj View Post
It's an unfortunate situation, but I have no sympathy.
The NGB Bonus Addendum is a 5 to 7 page document, requiring the Soldier to initial next to the paragraphs that apply to his contract, attesting that he has read and understood them, and attests them to be true in his case.
Richmond would have had to initial a paragraph attesting that he had no more than 12 (or 14, depending on the version) total years of service at the time of the contract.
At that time he was already over 20 years, and aware of that fact.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the 18 yr old who says his recruiter lied to him about his contract. But after that, in the Army and in life, the contract is the contract, regardless of what someone is telling you to the contrary.

Read before you sign, comprehend before you sign, keep a copy of what you sign, hand receipts, evals, contracts, etc.

Take responsibility for your own military career, (it's really not someone else's job), know your requirements, and figure out how to find the answers on your own, the Army has made it available on digits since the late 1990's, and every level of NCOES has taught you how to find the answers since NCOES was invented.

Follow those two rules, and you'll be pleasantly surprised how much easier everything gets.
I agree 100%. If the "victims" received too much of a bonus, or a bonus they didn't qualify for, then they are 99% responsible for the problem, and the CoC also failed them. Like Hot Mess said - they need to look at it as an interest free loan, but now it's time to pay it back.

I had to pay money back once when I was an E-4. I was married, had 2 kids in diapers, and got 4 no pay due's in a row. I didn't fucking cry about it or ask for others to help me pay it back.

I wouldn't give a dime to any GoFundMe for these guys. They new exactly what was happening and what they were trying to get away with - which in itself s kind of pathetic
__________________
If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 27 May 2016, 09:49
Tripod's Avatar
Tripod Tripod is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oak Island, NC
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Your profile says you commanded A/5/19. I wasn't aware officers got reenlistment bonuses
I am also very interested in a response to this - seeing how he started this thread, and at one point commanded some of the guys involved in this. Either I am very much misunderstanding something (entirely possible), or the NG does things differently than AD, or something a bit odd transpired
__________________
If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 27 May 2016, 10:03
Guy's Avatar
Guy Guy is offline
#AllLionsMatter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: CONUS @ the moment
Posts: 13,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
I am also very interested in a response to this - seeing how he started this thread, and at one point commanded some of the guys involved in this. Either I am very much misunderstanding something (entirely possible), or the NG does things differently than AD, or something a bit odd transpired
When National Guard units are not under federal control, the governor is the commander-in-chief of the units of his or her respective state or territory.

Therefore, the states can do as they want...
__________________
Quote:
Education is acquired through the formal institutions like school, colleges, and universities, whereas knowledge is gained from the real-life experiences.
Quote:
Education is all about gaining theoretical knowledge in the classroom or any institution. Training is a way to develop specific skills, whereas education is a typical system of learning.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:30.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET