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  #21  
Old 1 December 2016, 16:19
Gsniper Gsniper is online now
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Oops. UFB. Must have been bucking for E-10
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  #22  
Old 1 December 2016, 16:50
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
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The POS my sister is married to was in the Army in the 80s, a MP. That was verified. He claims, however, he was a sniper in Central America, and had been trained to go into Nicaragua to shoot Ortega. My sister's oldest son (from her first marriage), in the Army Reserve, called him out, he claims to have lost his DD214 and any other supporting documents. Now, I have never talked with this guy and I will never talk to this guy, but my sister thinks he is legit.
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  #23  
Old 1 December 2016, 16:54
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Player hater. Sounds totally legit to me. Probably worked with Jack Reacher.
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  #24  
Old 1 December 2016, 17:17
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Player hater. Sounds totally legit to me. Probably worked with Jack Reacher.
Lol. I care less about this than his child porn conviction he has. And my sister makes excuses for all of it.
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  #25  
Old 1 December 2016, 17:43
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Sounds like an all around great guy.
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  #26  
Old 1 December 2016, 22:56
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What is very troubling, is him taking the honor away from a dead Marine who was the REAL honor graduate. That is low, very low.
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  #27  
Old 1 December 2016, 23:02
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What is very troubling, is him taking the honor away from a dead Marine who was the REAL honor graduate. That is low, very low.
Agreed.. the dude graduated a very difficult course, just what in the hell was be thinking?.. why is that not enough??
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  #28  
Old 1 December 2016, 23:03
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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That SgtMajor is a lying POS. Fuck him.
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  #29  
Old 2 December 2016, 04:35
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I usually ask them to explain to me what a MOA is and then it quickly gets real quiet and all you can hear is crickets and the sound of sucking wind.
Can I respectfully ask if you're talking about minute of angle? If I remember correctly I think it averages about 1 inch for every 100 yards or there about depending on wind, rain and gravity and other stuff.

I've taken instruction years ago on rifle shooting from a couple of snipers. Was having trouble on longer shots and wanted to learn why. This was one thing we covered. I remember that much but past regular hunting ranges it gets way too complicated for me. I am truly amazed at how many factors and variables have to be considered in order to make the truly long distance shots.

Not something that just anyone can do. A good shot hunting does not equal sniper training and experience.

And this post was not trying to be a smart ass. I really was curious if I was right about what you posted. I have the utmost respect for your training and what you guys have done while in the military.
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  #30  
Old 2 December 2016, 06:57
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Can I respectfully ask if you're talking about minute of angle? If I remember correctly I think it averages about 1 inch for every 100 yards or there about depending on wind, rain and gravity and other stuff.

I've taken instruction years ago on rifle shooting from a couple of snipers. Was having trouble on longer shots and wanted to learn why. This was one thing we covered. I remember that much but past regular hunting ranges it gets way too complicated for me. I am truly amazed at how many factors and variables have to be considered in order to make the truly long distance shots.

Not something that just anyone can do. A good shot hunting does not equal sniper training and experience.

And this post was not trying to be a smart ass. I really was curious if I was right about what you posted. I have the utmost respect for your training and what you guys have done while in the military.
Minute Of Angle isn't going to change from any of those factors. It could be raining up from underground into the sky, wind blowing against itself, and trapped in a state of zero-gravity suspension. An inch on the beach is the same as an inch in the snow. Just a unit of measurement.

The real purpose of understanding MOA is to make sure your scope adjustments are done in intervals that never coincide with your reticle units of measurement. The technology isn't there just yet, but someday I hope that a more complicated measurement gets added into the mix. Maybe something that first occurs between one centimeter and 1.57 inches, but never in a repeating pattern. Because that's how wars are won.

"So my target is just shy of two mils tall from here, the height of a man is...1.3? 1.7? Fuck. Well anyway let's call it 500 met...yards? What are we using today? And that half value wind, adjust windage 4 MOA. Which with this particular optic, can be done in...what the fuck, each click is 1/17th of a fucking MOA? Why would anyone ever want that?! What's next, Linda is going to decide that an inch isn't an inch because it's raining and apples still fall from trees?"

Remember that weird trend a couple years back where everyone who remembered to go to work once a week was getting a paddle before they went to another command or retiring? Maybe this is the start of the switch in who they're copying. If you see some Air Ordinance 1stSgt getting a pair of pruning shears on a plaque with his ribbons shoe-gooed on, you'll know that admiration is now at a peak.
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  #31  
Old 2 December 2016, 11:56
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Originally Posted by SOW_0331 View Post
What's next, Linda is going to decide that an inch isn't an inch because it's raining and apples still fall from trees?"
If you are trying to answer Linda1961's question, I'm missing it.

Or, you hate the whole concept of teaching MOA and figure it is a waste of time?

Or, you are trying to be sarcastic about posers in general?

Or, you have a case of the ass with Linda1961 and you are trying to flame her while being witty?

Or, you are just in a crappy mood and this was the first place you could vent?


Much of what we try to do here is teach. If someone has a question and it is stupid as f#%k, I generally just say so, otherwise I try to answer within the scope of my knowledge.

YMMV
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  #32  
Old 2 December 2016, 12:06
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Originally Posted by sixgun View Post
If you are trying to answer Linda1961's question, I'm missing it.

Or, you hate the whole concept of teaching MOA and figure it is a waste of time?

Or, you are trying to be sarcastic about posers in general?

Or, you have a case of the ass with Linda1961 and you are trying to flame her while being witty?

Or, you are just in a crappy mood and this was the first place you could vent?


Much of what we try to do here is teach. If someone has a question and it is stupid as f#%k, I generally just say so, otherwise I try to answer within the scope of my knowledge.

YMMV
Brother, you always make sense.
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  #33  
Old 2 December 2016, 16:47
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Originally Posted by sixgun View Post
If you are trying to answer Linda1961's question, I'm missing it.

Or, you hate the whole concept of teaching MOA and figure it is a waste of time?

Or, you are trying to be sarcastic about posers in general?

Or, you have a case of the ass with Linda1961 and you are trying to flame her while being witty?

Or, you are just in a crappy mood and this was the first place you could vent?


Much of what we try to do here is teach. If someone has a question and it is stupid as f#%k, I generally just say so, otherwise I try to answer within the scope of my knowledge.

YMMV
Understood Sir, and if I came across as a real asshole I'll own my error. I have no qualms with Linda, and in my failed delivery I was trying to clarify that she was the right track and mostly correct, but had maybe gotten information streams crossed at some point.

So, to Linda, I apologize for not being direct and doing a shit job of passing information. Minute Of Angle is a geometric reference to a measurement that begins at the shooter, and opens up as distance from the point of origin increases. Think of it like a very focused flashlight beam that you point across an open field at night. If the beam of light was 1 MOA, at 100m it would be a 1" circle of light. At 600m the circle of light would be 6", however it would still he 1 MOA. The value of 1 MOA increases exponentially as distance from the point of origin increases. The other factors you mentioned are certainly going to need to be accounted for, however they are going to impact the trajectory of the projectile which is a different part of the overall equation.

So in summary, the value of 1 Minute Of Angle is widely accepted as 1 inch at 100m, 2 inches at 200, and so on infinitely. The true measurement at 100m is not 1" but rounding off the hundredths of an inch has almost no effect on the measurement. I hope that answers your question, and you were mostly correct so you have a better grasp than you gave yourself credit for.
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  #34  
Old 2 December 2016, 17:00
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Sixgun, and all, my other comments were an attempt to poke fun at how overwhelmed I was when I first started trying to employ all the factors I was taught to account for as a dumb boot with a PIG egg in my Rick and a protractor in hand. It took a while to get a better understanding and start relating things like distance to target, size of target, or oath of flight as the sin, cosin, and tangent in a live version of a trigonometric equation.

And in my young mind back then, as soon as I felt like I had figured out the value in one portion of the equation, I'd go to use it and find that the equipment we were using was based on units of measure that had a different value than the one I had just calculated. Like a reticle that was etched in Milradians, with turret knobs that adjusted the point of impact in Minutes Of Angle. Juggling the distance I wanted to move my POI, with adjustment clicks valued at a faction of an MOA, using Mils as reference to estimate that distance. Kicked my ass for a bit. How to measure in .3 to get the value of intervals of 1.

Now that I've showed my ass, I'll leave the topic to the true professionals. Again, I apologize for my poor performance and failure to offer information concisely. If removing my comments keeps the discussion going right, please delete.

ETA:Apparently bouncing between metric and imperial units still jacks me up. Can't edit now but I know I labeled the distances wrong.
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Last edited by SOW_0331; 2 December 2016 at 17:19.
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  #35  
Old 2 December 2016, 17:20
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You're delving deep in the long range rabbit hole, brother.. probably best to leave it at 1" at 100 yds = 1 MOA
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  #36  
Old 2 December 2016, 17:36
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You're delving deep in the long range rabbit hole, brother.. probably best to leave it at 1" at 100 yds = 1 MOA
I know. After I wrote the second reply I saw that I wrote 1":100m rather than 100yds. Trying to dig myself out of a hole and I ended up digging further down than upward and out.

I'll just be over here hazing the stupid out of myself.
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  #37  
Old 2 December 2016, 19:27
Gsniper Gsniper is online now
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No biggie dude. You clarified, nobody's bent. If you elect to smoke yourself, that's your choice.

Be careful or you'll get Gooch started. He's like Bill Ny the science guy when you get started on the numbers. He'll make your eyes cross.
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  #38  
Old 2 December 2016, 19:30
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Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
No biggie dude. You clarified, nobody's bent. If you elect to smoke yourself, that's your choice.

Be careful or you'll get Gooch started. He's like Bill Ny the science guy when you get started on the numbers. He'll make your eyes cross.
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  #39  
Old 2 December 2016, 22:13
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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What's an mrad?
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  #40  
Old 3 December 2016, 03:13
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Originally Posted by SOW_0331 View Post
Understood Sir, and if I came across as a real asshole I'll own my error. I have no qualms with Linda, and in my failed delivery I was trying to clarify that she was the right track and mostly correct, but had maybe gotten information streams crossed at some point.

So, to Linda, I apologize for not being direct and doing a shit job of passing information. Minute Of Angle is a geometric reference to a measurement that begins at the shooter, and opens up as distance from the point of origin increases. Think of it like a very focused flashlight beam that you point across an open field at night. If the beam of light was 1 MOA, at 100m it would be a 1" circle of light. At 600m the circle of light would be 6", however it would still he 1 MOA. The value of 1 MOA increases exponentially as distance from the point of origin increases. The other factors you mentioned are certainly going to need to be accounted for, however they are going to impact the trajectory of the projectile which is a different part of the overall equation.

So in summary, the value of 1 Minute Of Angle is widely accepted as 1 inch at 100m, 2 inches at 200, and so on infinitely. The true measurement at 100m is not 1" but rounding off the hundredths of an inch has almost no effect on the measurement. I hope that answers your question, and you were mostly correct so you have a better grasp than you gave yourself credit for.
Thank you and no problem here.

The three whole week course I did was back in the 1990s and I was trying to remember everything while I was writing the post. And at some point all those years ago my eyes crossed and I began to REALLY REALLY appreciate what training a real sniper actually has. Being a good shot does not make you a sniper.
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