Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > U.S. Air Force Special Operations > Pararescue (PJs)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 30 March 2013, 01:43
Rotor Strike please Rotor Strike please is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Off the Grid
Posts: 1,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJ View Post
Big controversy over this in the PJ world as MEDEVAC/CASEVAC are NOT what the Pararescueman/Rescue helicopter squadron are trained, equipped and paid to do. They can, as you can see, do those things well, but remember, their bread and butter is, and always will be, CSAR! CSAR! CSAR! They are the ones to go into harms way. We do not want the SOCOM world getting the idea that MEDEVAC is what we are here for.

The difference for the average guy is: If an unarmed huey with a couple of med techs can to it, it is MEDEVAC. If the pucker factor is high and you are going to get shot at; that is CSAR. KJ
I disagree, respectfully, brother. We no longer are a CSAR entity. Personnel Recovery is the name of the game. We now do it all, quite regularly. To think otherwise, IMO, is short sighted and will hinder us in the between war period approaching.

The bottom line is that we do MEDEVAC and CASEVAC, as well as CSAR better than anyone out there, and if we don't sell this to the public, we shall suffer the same fate that the guys did post-Vietnam.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 30 March 2013, 10:08
SN's Avatar
SN SN is offline
Old and Broke
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: The GREAT State of Texas
Posts: 4,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJ View Post
Big controversy over this in the PJ world as MEDEVAC/CASEVAC are NOT what the Pararescueman/Rescue helicopter squadron are trained, equipped and paid to do. They can, as you can see, do those things well, but remember, their bread and butter is, and always will be, CSAR! CSAR! CSAR! They are the ones to go into harms way. We do not want the SOCOM world getting the idea that MEDEVAC is what we are here for.

The difference for the average guy is: If an unarmed huey with a couple of med techs can to it, it is MEDEVAC. If the pucker factor is high and you are going to get shot at; that is CSAR. KJ
IIRC the MedEvac mission came from a Big Army request, not from SOCOM.
__________________
FISHDO
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 30 March 2013, 10:49
travis35 travis35 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1
Loving this show so far. I personally got to work with a few of the guys highlighted in the show and I am honored to have had the opportunity. I was in an Army unit providing force pro for our personnel recovery mission in Horn of Africa on ch-53s. They must have done 4 on 4 off, and then went to Astan for this mission. Great group of guys.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 30 March 2013, 11:24
Gumby2/6's Avatar
Gumby2/6 Gumby2/6 is offline
Calculating Infinity...
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,257
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolshock1 View Post
Here's a guy who has all the episodes in one place.

http://www.youtube.com/user/111emi1111
Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 30 March 2013, 13:24
johca johca is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 1,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotor Strike please View Post
We no longer are a CSAR entity. Personnel Recovery is the name of the game. We now do it all, quite regularly.
When hasnít Personnel Recovery been the name of the game?
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 30 March 2013, 20:14
Rotor Strike please Rotor Strike please is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Off the Grid
Posts: 1,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by johca View Post
When hasnít Personnel Recovery been the name of the game?
See KJ's post above. My post was in response to his. IMO, CSAR is only a part of our overarching PR mission.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 31 March 2013, 17:52
Titleist Titleist is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bradenton, Florida
Posts: 1,933
Watched the whole series. Fascinating as well as humbling. God bless these warriors.

I never could discern what came over the speakers just before an alert call. It sounded like "we roll" followed by something unintelligible. Please help me out. Info would help me appreciate the series even more.

Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 31 March 2013, 18:24
Medic09's Avatar
Medic09 Medic09 is offline
היה אישם עשה משהו
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Land of Enchantment/Bashan
Posts: 1,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titleist View Post
Watched the whole series. Fascinating as well as humbling. God bless these warriors.

I never could discern what came over the speakers just before an alert call. It sounded like "we roll" followed by something unintelligible. Please help me out. Info would help me appreciate the series even more.

Thanks in advance.
"Leroy Jenkins". See page three of this thread. He's a video game character who charges into battle with little or no regard for the risks or consequences. 'Whatever it takes.' Warrior bad-ass attitude.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 31 March 2013, 18:26
Titleist Titleist is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bradenton, Florida
Posts: 1,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medic09 View Post
"Leroy Jenkins". See page three of this thread. He's a video game character who charges into battle with little or no regard for the risks or consequences. 'Whatever it takes.' Warrior bad-ass attitude.
Thank you Sir. I "get it." Back to the lounge.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 2 April 2013, 07:08
TFS/S's Avatar
TFS/S TFS/S is offline
Semper Fidelis
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: CONUS
Posts: 163
Just started watching the series. It is amazing. I remember all I wanted to do before leaving Afghanistan in 2010, was to hug one of these guys. A few buddies still alive because of them.
__________________
"Nothing so completely verifies our perception of a thing as our killing of it."

Last edited by TFS/S; 2 April 2013 at 07:08. Reason: Left out additional information.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 7 April 2013, 08:03
specat93's Avatar
specat93 specat93 is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CONUS
Posts: 442
Damn fellas. Just finished watching all 6 episodes on Youtube.

Many thanks to NatGeo for this. One of the most moving documentaries that I have seen. Watching that SF soldier kiss his brother on the forehead because he did not think that he would ever see him again brought tears to my eyes. And remembering back to those days when I was AD and deployed was so close to the video clips from the homefront that it was scary. The greatest thing that ever happened to me was having daughters, and watching the guy interact with his soon-to-be 2 yr. girl old brought back some beautiful memories of those long ago days.

Gents of the green footprints... I respected you before I ever watched this. I have even more respect for you now. Godspeed and stay safe.

Last edited by specat93; 7 April 2013 at 08:13. Reason: misspelling
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 15 April 2013, 21:23
nofear's Avatar
nofear nofear is offline
Proud wearer of a Beard.
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia-based
Posts: 2,589
Have only watched 3 eps so far, but so far I'm wondering if NatGeo only filmed during a very quiet time. Most of the show seems to be watching the guys when they're waiting for a mission, and then when there is a mission, they work as heli-borne Ambulance dudes.

The scene where they sat in a FOB for 2 hours whilst waiting for Big Army to clear a HLZ of possible (not probable) IED's also seemed to make me think that there was a lot of risk-mitigation that seemed a bit unrealistic to me.

This isn't a criticism - There's no doubt that they are dedicated and highly skilled personnel, but the series makes them seem a little...risk averse?
__________________
"Amateurs train until they get it right. Professionals train until they can't get it wrong." - Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 15 April 2013, 21:50
johca johca is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 1,312
It is my understanding there were limits to what was video documented or if captured on video cleared to be used. I wasn't told anything more than this.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 15 April 2013, 21:55
Rotor Strike please Rotor Strike please is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Off the Grid
Posts: 1,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear View Post
This isn't a criticism - There's no doubt that they are dedicated and highly skilled personnel, but the series makes them seem a little...risk averse?
Rules from on high. We had guys fly into some hellacious firefights, and have the DFC's to prove it. As the war changed, so did the ROE's governing it. Add to that a healthy dose of reality TV manufactured drama, and you see the result.

Do not doubt, whatever the situation, they'll come for you.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 15 April 2013, 22:25
nofear's Avatar
nofear nofear is offline
Proud wearer of a Beard.
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia-based
Posts: 2,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by johca View Post
if captured on video cleared to be used.
That does make sense.
__________________
"Amateurs train until they get it right. Professionals train until they can't get it wrong." - Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 16 April 2013, 20:00
OppressorsBeware175 OppressorsBeware175 is offline
Always look cool.
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear View Post
Have only watched 3 eps so far, but so far I'm wondering if NatGeo only filmed during a very quiet time. Most of the show seems to be watching the guys when they're waiting for a mission, and then when there is a mission, they work as heli-borne Ambulance dudes.

The scene where they sat in a FOB for 2 hours whilst waiting for Big Army to clear a HLZ of possible (not probable) IED's also seemed to make me think that there was a lot of risk-mitigation that seemed a bit unrealistic to me.

This isn't a criticism - There's no doubt that they are dedicated and highly skilled personnel, but the series makes them seem a little...risk averse?
You also have to keep in mind the likelihood that they only filmed events, equipment, and capabilities that weren't classified if it wasn't just the nature of that particular rotation. I'm willing to wager the former.

With respect to the big army clearing for IEDs, that's for the aircraft more than the welfare of the PJs for obvious reasons..
__________________
"Relish the challenge of overcoming the difficulties that would crush ordinary men." -Mark Twight

Last edited by OppressorsBeware175; 16 April 2013 at 20:02. Reason: Added note.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 17 April 2013, 10:10
PJ1's Avatar
PJ1 PJ1 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Pararescue team
Posts: 317
Rumor is they will be out here for another series
__________________
Living the dream!
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 17 April 2013, 10:53
Hotmike's Avatar
Hotmike Hotmike is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Coast
Posts: 1,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear View Post
Have only watched 3 eps so far, but so far I'm wondering if NatGeo only filmed during a very quiet time. Most of the show seems to be watching the guys when they're waiting for a mission, and then when there is a mission, they work as heli-borne Ambulance dudes.

The scene where they sat in a FOB for 2 hours whilst waiting for Big Army to clear a HLZ of possible (not probable) IED's also seemed to make me think that there was a lot of risk-mitigation that seemed a bit unrealistic to me.

This isn't a criticism - There's no doubt that they are dedicated and highly skilled personnel, but the series makes them seem a little...risk averse?
As a former First Sgt in an STS, and having reviewed MANY submissions for decorations for CCTs and PJs, I can state as a FACT, that as a community, they are some of the most "willing" to accept risk (hell, some of them seemed to embrace it) when a fellow warrior needs them.

The hardest part in working their "Awards and Decs" was getting an honest narrative of their ops...

ME: Sir, you gotta include the words "Under enemy fire" in the submission, or the Desk Molesters are gonna kick it back!

CRO/STO: Top, we were under enemy fire EVERY DAY! Ops Normal, so I don't feel I should have to state that.

ME: Sir, nobody reviewing this submission has probably ever been YELLED at, let alone SHOT AT.

CRO/STO: So I guess it should read "Just did our damn job as well as we could... Under enemy fire"?

ME: Sir, your team saved four troops, did some un-f*cking believable medicine, in an airplane full of holes, at altitudes that no Rotor Head should be flying big expensive aircraft!

CRO/STO: Yeah, that shit was pretty sweet wasn't it?

J's may have been invented to rescue downed aircrews behind enemy lines; and some might think that them pulling "reglar" Medevac is like sending a racehorse to plow a field, but If my shit were ever in the wind again? Pedro would be my first choice... and there's not a PJ (that I've ever met) that would hesitate to roll...

Now the OWNERS of those REALLY EXPENSIVE helichoppers (not the DRIVERS mind you) ARE the risk averse types.

As THEY should be...

Just my two cents

HK
__________________
- A Pessimist will tell you the Glass is Half Empty...
- An Optimist will tell you the Glass is Half Full...
- An Engineer will tell you the Glass is TWICE AS BIG AS IT NEEDS TO BE!

Sometimes you just gotta hoist the Jolly Roger and start slittin' throats!
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 17 April 2013, 16:22
nofear's Avatar
nofear nofear is offline
Proud wearer of a Beard.
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia-based
Posts: 2,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmike View Post
CRO/STO: Yeah, that shit was pretty sweet wasn't it?
That personality-type does show its head in the series.

As stated, I don't doubt that they go into some shit-fights. My comment was that NatGeo, for whatever reason, doesn't portray the "danger" that those guys go into on a regular basis.

Wasn't a criticism of the guys doing the job. Not at all.
__________________
"Amateurs train until they get it right. Professionals train until they can't get it wrong." - Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 17 April 2013, 22:53
OppressorsBeware175 OppressorsBeware175 is offline
Always look cool.
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmike View Post


Now the OWNERS of those REALLY EXPENSIVE helichoppers (not the DRIVERS mind you) ARE the risk averse types.

As THEY should be...

Just my two cents

HK
Less the cost, and more the consideration that you put other friendlies on the line to secure and recover the downed bird. I had an instructor pilot that said "be brave; be bold. But think about the ground guys who are putting their lives on the line pulling your raggedy ass out of the bird you balled up because you wanted to be a hero." That's the risk aversion piece...
__________________
"Relish the challenge of overcoming the difficulties that would crush ordinary men." -Mark Twight

Last edited by OppressorsBeware175; 17 April 2013 at 23:05. Reason: Fixed typo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:52.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET