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  #61  
Old 8 October 2011, 13:06
Tincan Tincan is offline
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Enlisted Transfers

I have a few sailors who (for one reason or another) were dropped or quit BUDs. They then were sent to come work for me as undesignated deck seaman on the gray hulls. They are solid performers, I was wondering what does it take for these guys to get a second shot?

I heard that BUDs was no longer accepting former drops from within the fleet. Is this true?

Any guidance I could get to send these guy's way would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
  #62  
Old 1 February 2012, 10:29
Freebird Freebird is offline
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Proud Dad

My 22 year old son made the draft and got his SEAL challenge contract. Got sworn in yesterday and ships out in May.

Couldn't talk him into following Dad's footsteps in USMC Has had his heart set on being a SEAL for a long time. I hope he is able to fulfill his goals and dreams. Regardless of the outcome, I couldn't be prouder of him.
  #63  
Old 1 February 2012, 11:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebird View Post
My 22 year old son made the draft and got his SEAL challenge contract. Got sworn in yesterday and ships out in May.

Couldn't talk him into following Dad's footsteps in USMC Has had his heart set on being a SEAL for a long time. I hope he is able to fulfill his goals and dreams. Regardless of the outcome, I couldn't be prouder of him.
I wish him the best of luck. Not many men even get this opportunity.
  #64  
Old 2 February 2012, 16:51
RINEHART RINEHART is offline
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Minor in possession of alcohol -what are my options

Current Situation: I have recently joined the navy, taken a job, and took the PST (8:00 min Swim, 143 push ups, 126 sit ups, 26 Pull ups, 9:31 Run) was told I would get my SO contract (to go SEAL-Enlisted) and then I hit my road block, Problem: I received 3 MIP's (Minor in Possessions of Alcohol) which has classified me under alcohol abuse on my record all of which were issued at a minimum of 3 years ago. I received these in high school and early in my college career before I became a more responsible indiviudal. This is currently one MIP too many for an SO contract. I have a college degree from Texas A&M -good GPA, Good PST score, and three MIP's. I have been told I can take a job within the navy and switch to the SO rating after 18 months. The idea of 18 months in the navy in a unrelated field is an option but is not a desirable one but may be what I have to do to achieve my goal. I do have a college degree so going officer is also an option.

If any one has any other options of thoughts on my situation that they know are available to me and could describe them it would be much appreciated
  #65  
Old 2 February 2012, 20:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tincan View Post
I have a few sailors who (for one reason or another) were dropped or quit BUDs. They then were sent to come work for me as undesignated deck seaman on the gray hulls. They are solid performers, I was wondering what does it take for these guys to get a second shot?

I heard that BUDs was no longer accepting former drops from within the fleet. Is this true?

Any guidance I could get to send these guy's way would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Some time back when BUDS drops were sent to the Fleet they had to wait two years before they could reapply. I have no idea if this provision is still in effect. However, I do tell you that BUDS gets so many applicants that re-application would have its difficulties.
  #66  
Old 2 February 2012, 20:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RINEHART View Post
Current Situation: I have recently joined the navy, taken a job, and took the PST (8:00 min Swim, 143 push ups, 126 sit ups, 26 Pull ups, 9:31 Run) was told I would get my SO contract (to go SEAL-Enlisted) and then I hit my road block, Problem: I received 3 MIP's (Minor in Possessions of Alcohol) which has classified me under alcohol abuse on my record all of which were issued at a minimum of 3 years ago. I received these in high school and early in my college career before I became a more responsible indiviudal. This is currently one MIP too many for an SO contract. I have a college degree from Texas A&M -good GPA, Good PST score, and three MIP's. I have been told I can take a job within the navy and switch to the SO rating after 18 months. The idea of 18 months in the navy in a unrelated field is an option but is not a desirable one but may be what I have to do to achieve my goal. I do have a college degree so going officer is also an option.

If any one has any other options of thoughts on my situation that they know are available to me and could describe them it would be much appreciated
You did not learn after the first MIP? How many did you really get away with?
In BUDS you will be lucky if they have to tell you anything the second time. Third? I would not want you as my swim buddy.
  #67  
Old 8 February 2012, 18:28
bammer bammer is offline
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My son is in BUDS class 291 in third phase on San Clemente. Have not heard from him in over a month. Does anyone know when they secure.
  #68  
Old 8 February 2012, 19:47
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You did not learn after the first MIP? How many did you really get away with?
In BUDS you will be lucky if they have to tell you anything the second time. Third? I would not want you as my swim buddy.
Concur. You have a red flag on your record. You might be a PT stud, but you demonstrate a character flaw. It will be hard to over come in today's zero tolerance Navy.
  #69  
Old 8 February 2012, 19:50
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My son is in BUDS class 291 in third phase on San Clemente. Have not heard from him in over a month. Does anyone know when they secure.
Bammer, they don't "secure", just finish that training evolution. Usually it lasts 3 Weeks.
  #70  
Old 8 February 2012, 23:53
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Thanks Frog.
  #71  
Old 9 February 2012, 03:01
RINEHART RINEHART is offline
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Thank you gentlemen for your responses. I am simply trying to find factual information on enlistments provisions and requirements pertaining to my situation.
---------
Originally Posted by RINEHART View Post
Current Situation: I have recently joined the navy, taken a job, and took the PST (8:00 min Swim, 143 push ups, 126 sit ups, 26 Pull ups, 9:31 Run) was told I would get my SO contract (to go SEAL-Enlisted) and then I hit my road block, Problem: I received 3 MIP's (Minor in Possessions of Alcohol) which has classified me under alcohol abuse on my record all of which were issued at a minimum of 3 years ago. I received these in high school and early in my college career before I became a more responsible individual. This is currently one MIP too many for an SO contract. I have a college degree from Texas A&M -good GPA, Good PST score, and three MIP's. I have been told I can take a job within the navy and switch to the SO rating after 18 months. The idea of 18 months in the navy in a unrelated field is an option but is not a desirable one but may be what I have to do to achieve my goal. I do have a college degree so going officer is also an option.

If any one has any other options of thoughts on my situation that they know are available to me and could describe them it would be much appreciated
  #72  
Old 9 February 2012, 13:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RINEHART View Post
I have been told I can take a job within the navy and switch to the SO rating after 18 months. The idea of 18 months in the navy in a unrelated field is an option but is not a desirable one but may be what I have to do to achieve my goal. I do have a college degree so going officer is also an option.

If any one has any other options of thoughts on my situation that they know are available to me and could describe them it would be much appreciated

"....switch to the SO rating after 18 months."

RINEHART you are gifted with a bad source of information. You do not "switch" to the SO Rating. The SO Rating is earned by (1) Being accepted into training. (2) Training for approx 14 months. (3) Then pining the Trident pin on if your graduate. Not an easy task for one who falls back upon "I have a sheepskin" as his main show of strength.

Last edited by Cass; 9 February 2012 at 13:59.
  #73  
Old 21 February 2012, 22:12
Medic5392 Medic5392 is offline
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If somebody gets dropped from BUD/S today they are screwed up. They give the kids almost unlimited times to re-do things, they are a Navy A school and hence are highly regulated and people get chance after chance after chance.
I have several friends who are currently instructors, here are some tidbits-
*Winter Hell Weeks have not been eliminated but amazingly the last one was in October and there are none scheduled for weeks, hmmmm....
*Pool Comp-the kids go through the test over and over again, they know what to expect on the test and hence are super prepared for it, kind of defeats the purpose of it though.
* The Center want's numbers, plain and simple.
*Numbers-they are pushing for another 500 SEALs, can't manufacture SOF? BS, the Navy and BUD/S are throwing out a SOF Truth.
*Boards? Kids only have to pass 3 of 5 times events in swims, runs, o courses.
*We just got a kid at the team who was at BUD/S for almost there for 3 years. Can't make that up.
* BUD/S is only 21 weeks now and there is a push to have selection stop after pool comp. Some have even suggested dropping Hell Week, can't make that shit up.
* The instructors do what they can to remain the gate keepers but when Officers and Enlisted alike start IGs inspections all the time there is only so much you can do. They do not get the support from the Senior Officers or the Enlisted.
* No more runs to chow hall, no more lots of things. If the water wasn't cold it would be a joke now.

BUD/S has changed, I know many on here don't want to believe that but it has and the product coming out is not the same, we still get a lot of good guys but that is because we still attract a lot of good guys.
The mentors are part of the problem has is the "hugging" phase of some of those vested in making sure the kids get through. There was even a Hell Week where some Mentors went out and "encouraged" the kids, weak. That has not happened since but it still disgusts me.

If this continues, along with the advocacy of some to allow women into BUD/S will be a joke and the Teams will eventually suffer.

I expect a lot of "You don't know what your talking about" or "that is not true" and an occasional line from a Mentor/Motivator about how great the program is working but it's just not the way it is folks.
I can't take it anymore when I read some of these posts.

Last edited by Medic5392; 21 February 2012 at 22:26.
  #74  
Old 22 February 2012, 00:47
RetiredSOCS RetiredSOCS is offline
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I agree with everything you just said EXCEPT blaming mentors for making it easier on the students. I was one of 5 or 6 mentors that came out to observe Class 275 Hell Week. We were given about an hour to talk with the class on Sunday afternoon before breakout. Then we were given about 5 minutes 2 or 3 times to talk to the students during chow. We were allowed to observe off to the side of a few of the suckier evolutions on Sunday and Monday night without any interaction with the class. Every one of us flew back home on Tuesday afternoon/evening. I could tell that the instructors resented us being there and I can't say I blame them. But if intructors are trying to blame the mentors for BUD/S being easier, well they can just go F&^% themselves.
  #75  
Old 22 February 2012, 09:15
Medic5392 Medic5392 is offline
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Originally Posted by RetiredSOCS View Post
I agree with everything you just said EXCEPT blaming mentors for making it easier on the students. I was one of 5 or 6 mentors that came out to observe Class 275 Hell Week. We were given about an hour to talk with the class on Sunday afternoon before breakout. Then we were given about 5 minutes 2 or 3 times to talk to the students during chow. We were allowed to observe off to the side of a few of the suckier evolutions on Sunday and Monday night without any interaction with the class. Every one of us flew back home on Tuesday afternoon/evening. I could tell that the instructors resented us being there and I can't say I blame them. But if intructors are trying to blame the mentors for BUD/S being easier, well they can just go F&^% themselves.
It's not THE problem but it is part of the problem. The incentives for the mentors and for the students are to monetary based IMO and ITO of many others. It is a small piece of the pie in what is wrong with the people running selection today, a very small piece but still a problem. There is still a strong movement to cut the length of BUD/S even more. I have a few guys who are looking to get out right now and lack of faith in leadership is the biggest reason cited every single time, what is going on at BUD/S does not exactly engender trust and faith in leadership.
We constantly do well because of the quality of the people we have coming through but that quality is dropping all the time, we always had our "10%" but that 10% is growing. Giving these kids their Birds right out of SQT is also creating a HUGE sense of entitlement, we have the problem enough with the money incentives we do not need more of it. Probation? It needs to come back but it won't, again due to a failure in leadership. I know many great people who want it back but I do not see it happening. It won't be a cure all but it will help stem the flow of crap we are getting. The spotlight is going to be on us more and more, having a low quality product in relation to what we used to produce it only going to cause us pain and morale problems down the road.
  #76  
Old 22 February 2012, 09:29
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trident86 trident86 is offline
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Free Tridents

[QUOTE=Medic5392;1058105949]Giving these kids their Birds right out of SQT is also creating a HUGE sense of entitlement, we have the problem enough with the money incentives we do not need more of it. Probation? It needs to come back but it won't, again due to a failure in leadership. QUOTE]

Couple this with the 12 or so weeks of language training we're tacking on before these kids ever even see a SEAL platoon and feel that platoon chief's boot up their asses. The leadership in the schoolhouse (BUD/S, SQT, NSW language training) is no replacement for developing a guy early in a platoon before he forms bad habits.
  #77  
Old 22 February 2012, 10:34
Medic5392 Medic5392 is offline
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[QUOTE=trident86;1058105954]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medic5392 View Post
Giving these kids their Birds right out of SQT is also creating a HUGE sense of entitlement, we have the problem enough with the money incentives we do not need more of it. Probation? It needs to come back but it won't, again due to a failure in leadership. QUOTE]

Couple this with the 12 or so weeks of language training we're tacking on before these kids ever even see a SEAL platoon and feel that platoon chief's boot up their asses. The leadership in the schoolhouse (BUD/S, SQT, NSW language training) is no replacement for developing a guy early in a platoon before he forms bad habits.
That was one of the few things that got immediate push back, they are looking to change that a bit now that we have new leadership. A big problem is that not a lot of folks know what is going on, I tell senior folks that BUD/S is only 21 weeks and they look at me like I am telling them a lie. A lot of these things are not done with input from all the teams, they are just done and instituted. It has to stop or we will become shit down the road.
  #78  
Old 22 February 2012, 11:30
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Matchanu Matchanu is offline
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They tried the "push" thing back when I was in. Not near as bad as what you are talking about but things changed. The CO "coddled" the students, if the instructors punished the students, the CO made sure the instructors did everything with the students, push ups, wet and sandy, etc....

The result was a lot of shitbags making it through. Team were then held to task to get rid of them, not easy at that level.

It was a fucking mess. There was some quality guys getting through but the higher percentage of shitbags made things very difficult. 2 or 3 shitbags in a platoon, it wasn't worth it. More work to get rid of the chaff, less time focusing on training and mission.

It makes me ill hearing about this.
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  #79  
Old 22 February 2012, 14:11
RetiredSOCS RetiredSOCS is offline
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It's not THE problem but it is part of the problem. The incentives for the mentors and for the students are to monetary based IMO and ITO of many others.
Completely untrue! Mentors get a performance bonus based on the percentage of recruits who graduate RTC with their SEAL, SWCC, EOD, Diver and Air Rescue Swimmer contracts in tact.
The mentor program was created to change the fact that 80% of SEAL candidates never made it to the front door of BUD/S because of unethical recruiting practices and indifference by the fleet RDC's at boot camp. Mentors have been incredibly successful in accomplishing the mission that was assigned to us. Being blamed because the bean counters at BUD/S have gone soft quite frankly pisses me off. ony monetary benefit for the students only comes after earning the Trident. I wonder if you would have given an enlistment bonus back out of principle. I highly doubt it.

From 2006 to 2010 I personally sent 150 SEAL recruits off to boot camp. Of those only about a dozen are wearing Tridents today. I can't speak for what has happened since I left in March 2010 but 12 out of 150 doesn't seem like better than normal odds to me.

Bottom line is get your facts straight before dropping bombs on the mentors.
  #80  
Old 22 February 2012, 17:42
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Matchanu Matchanu is offline
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Originally Posted by RetiredSOCS View Post

Bottom line is get your facts straight before dropping bombs on the mentors.
Obviously this issue can be very personal to all of us wearing the Trident, but both of you please do me the favor of keeping this professional and civil. If this were in the team area you could get as nasty as you want to each other and take it behind the berm if you wanted.

However, this isn't the team area, consider this site a public area with high ranking officers, reporters, families, etc. and both of you are wearing uniforms.

Remember what they told you about dirty laundry.


It's good to discuss this, but keep it cool. Thanks.
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