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  #1  
Old 26 August 2008, 13:13
PatriotnMore PatriotnMore is offline
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The Mexican drug cartels thread.

If this report turns out to be credible, time to take off the velvet gloves.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,410261,00.html
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Old 26 August 2008, 13:33
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Wouldn't be the first time they've hit someone on our side, but the cartels wont get too crazy on our side of the border. Bad for business and everything they do is about the business. I wouldnt put much stock in the report. Business as usual.
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Old 26 August 2008, 13:48
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This isn't anything new. They're already here and have been for several years. People would be amazed to find out where "Las Zetas" have set up shop.
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Old 26 August 2008, 15:07
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
Wouldn't be the first time they've hit someone on our side, but the cartels wont get too crazy on our side of the border. Bad for business and everything they do is about the business. I wouldnt put much stock in the report. Business as usual.
I wish I was as confident. There have been several disturbing incidents in the Phoenix area recently.
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Old 26 August 2008, 16:22
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The article makes it seem like they HAVEN'T been hitting targets on the U.S. and that they're just NOW going to start. Give me a fucking break.
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  #6  
Old 26 August 2008, 16:53
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,399201,00.html

What do you think about this?

In a world of GPS...I think the "accidental" incursions are total BS.
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Old 26 August 2008, 16:54
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There have been several disturbing incidents in the Phoenix area recently.
Care to elaborate?
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Old 26 August 2008, 17:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andraste View Post
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,399201,00.html

What do you think about this?

In a world of GPS...I think the "accidental" incursions are total BS.
http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php...light=Mexicans

repeat...
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  #9  
Old 26 August 2008, 21:33
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Thanks for the link. That Phoenix stuff is is crazy. So does anybody know if these guys really MEX Army or Cartel in "disguise"?
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  #10  
Old 26 August 2008, 22:08
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that bulletin is one of dozens that come out each year. business as usual. scum going after scum and good people get caught in the middle of it sometimes. lot's of threats against LEO's but they don't really go that far knowing that it would hurt their profits big time.
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Old 26 August 2008, 22:32
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Yeah, the thing in Phoenix was disturbing to me as well. But, that was the exception to the rule. That's the only time that they have gone that far on our side that I am aware of. Normally it's like the guy they whacked in FL a couple of years ago. As soon as I saw it on the news I knew what had happened. The locals figured it out about a week later. No ding on them, just not what they are used to dealing with.
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Old 26 August 2008, 22:54
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It's not just that they came in as far as Phoenix. It's the way they tried to lure the Phx cops into the alley. Then admitted they intented to kill them only ran out of ammo.

They fired !00 rounds in Phoenix!!! That's incredible....and even more so that we're not ripping Mexico a new ass.
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  #13  
Old 27 August 2008, 01:10
NightLandNav NightLandNav is offline
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Mexico could put allot more cooperative effort into several issues of shared concern with the US.

...but they can still do a whole less if they decided to. Both governments know the consequences of less cooperation would be far greater on this side of the border. Current policy has us at a distinct disadvantage to intimidate Mexico politically.
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Old 27 August 2008, 01:38
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Mexico could put allot more cooperative effort into several issues of shared concern with the US.

...but they can still do a whole less if they decided to. Both governments know the consequences of less cooperation would be far greater on this side of the border. Current policy has us at a distinct disadvantage to intimidate Mexico politically.
I've been reading about the problems the BP has been having, and ICE and local Police and the Sheriff departments...and all it does is frustrate me...because they're frustrated.

Admittedly I'm ignorant regarding the politics between Mexico and the US. Can you please elaborate on "current policy".
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Old 27 August 2008, 03:40
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Yeah, I noticed all kinds of posts about folks not believing that someone can actually miss the line to talking about the Los Zetas...etc.

Yeah, it can happen. In a lot of the areas on the line down here, there is at most a 4-strand barb wire fence. Often times, there are holes in it where drug traffickers have driven through it with 1,000 lbs of dope or so heading north. Folks talk about that fence that is getting built...well, it isn't on the entire border. Besides, when they actually get it built, we have found it doesn't work anyway. They take torches to it and just cut gates in it, dig under it, climb over it, etc. I'm speaking of actions of the dope smugglers, not just the aliens.

You have to remember, the aliens only go where the dope smugglers allow them to go. Dope is worth more than illegals by a long shot and it requires far less maintenance.

As far as those threats. It is a pretty simple situation in Juarez. You have two cartels, the Juarez Cartel, Vicente CARRILLO-Fuentes or VCF running it, and a faction of the Sinaloa Federation ran by Joaquin ((EL CHAPO [Shorty])) GUZMAN-Leora battling over Juarez. The Juarez Cartel used to be one of the top dogs in Mexico, but has since been diminished to a lower level in comparison to the Gulf Cartel and Sinaloa Federation. Mind you, don't forget about the Tijuana Cartel, but we are not going to venture west in this thread.

The Juarez Cartel is more in line with the Gulf Cartel, which operates mainly on the east side of Mexico. The Gulf Cartel has its paramilitary arm known as the Los Zetas, which have maintained loyalty for a long time. Regardless of the fact that the Los Zetas came out in May and proclaimed themselves as their own cartel, they still offer their services as what I call the "Blackwater" for the Gulf Cartel and drug trafficking organizations (DTO's) in line with them. As of a few years ago, you saw the Los Zetas operating big time in the Nuevo Loredo area on the other side of the river from Loredo, TX. They have since grown and are operating in many other areas with a major influence do to recruitment growing.

There was over 30 people killed in Juarez last weekend alone, not counting what happens during an entire week. All that has happened that is being described in that news report is that individuals under CARRILLO-Fuentes are seeking out those working for ((EL CHAPO)) regardless of where they stand. Just an escalation, but I highly doubt they will do visible killings on the American side, because that draws attention to the border and they need the drugs to keep going. More law enforcement or even military on the border limits the amount of drugs able to head north through that plaza.

Now, if you look at what is going on in Nogales, Sonora (south side of the border from Nogales, AZ), you will see the same things going on. You have to realize that you have not seen the same order given out, because that is a different engagement with the Sinaloa Federation against a different DTO and they have different ROE's for there. The ROE of each DTO depends on where they are, who they are battling, and what it takes to take over the plaza.

I know that is all confusing, but you can see it is not an easy situation. However, I would definitely say to not worry about an onslaught of deaths on the US side. That is bad for business. However, the occasional dead guy found in an alley or someplace is more the style that would be used vs. the AK-47 in the street at 0300hrs in the morning.

Oh, and that title, "Mexican Cartels Give OK to Hit U.S. Targets" is completely wrong. Makes it sound like the Cartel's are wanting to go after US stuff. That is completely not the case. The order was only to go after other cartel members that are on the US side of the border, not US targets. We don't need folks getting some crazy idea.

Last edited by Tracker275; 27 August 2008 at 03:50.
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  #16  
Old 27 August 2008, 04:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andraste View Post
Thanks for the link. That Phoenix stuff is is crazy. So does anybody know if these guys really MEX Army or Cartel in "disguise"?
Don't look for what is not there.

A lot of times the mules are protected in many entrance points by gunman up to a certain point. However, these guys are NOT Mexican military. They are trying to keep their loads from getting "ripped" by other groups looking for that quick buck. Yeah, even the dopers get robbed trying to take their loads north.

As a side note...For those of you who want to go camping and know where I'm talking about, I would suggest NOT going camping out on your own either west of the Huachuca Mountains or anywhere around the Chiracahua Mountains here in Arizona.

The Cartels members or guides are just that. They have absolutely no reason to dress up like Mexican Army personnel and the Mexican Army has absolutely no reason to dress up like a cartel member. There is absolutely no reason within that thought.
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Old 27 August 2008, 05:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offroad View Post
I've been reading about the problems the BP has been having, and ICE and local Police and the Sheriff departments...and all it does is frustrate me...because they're frustrated.

Admittedly I'm ignorant regarding the politics between Mexico and the US. Can you please elaborate on "current policy".
A pattern of political policy indicates a political plan.

"current policy": A self limiting policy pattered by appeasement and accommodation. The inevitable effect such policies as a whole combine to facilitate is: accumulation.

Why?

The answer to that lies in "How" it is a pattern.
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Old 27 August 2008, 05:56
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Got it. But your remark, "Current policy has us at a distinct disadvantage to intimidate Mexico politically." is what intrigues me. What exactly is the "distinct disadvantage" that Mexico has over us? That's where I don't understand the politics.
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  #19  
Old 27 August 2008, 06:23
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Sounds like a good place for some mis-guided campers with sniper rifles to hang out. Maybe get a Minuteman get together down there??

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsod275 View Post
Don't look for what is not there.

A lot of times the mules are protected in many entrance points by gunman up to a certain point. However, these guys are NOT Mexican military. They are trying to keep their loads from getting "ripped" by other groups looking for that quick buck. Yeah, even the dopers get robbed trying to take their loads north.

As a side note...For those of you who want to go camping and know where I'm talking about, I would suggest NOT going camping out on your own either west of the Huachuca Mountains or anywhere around the Chiracahua Mountains here in Arizona.

The Cartels members or guides are just that. They have absolutely no reason to dress up like Mexican Army personnel and the Mexican Army has absolutely no reason to dress up like a cartel member. There is absolutely no reason within that thought.
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  #20  
Old 27 August 2008, 07:02
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Originally Posted by tsod275 View Post
Oh, and that title, "Mexican Cartels Give OK to Hit U.S. Targets" is completely wrong. Makes it sound like the Cartel's are wanting to go after US stuff. That is completely not the case. The order was only to go after other cartel members that are on the US side of the border, not US targets. We don't need folks getting some crazy idea.
We see more and more of the Cartel members trying to figure out how to get out of Mexico, and thanks to our lax immigration enforcement, most people would be shocked at how may Cartel members' families have already moved to the U.S. for safety. Even really well known and notorious members of the Cartels, come to the US on vacation, from time to time, as crazy as that seems. If they wanted to, they could be making life bad for U.S. law enforcement, but I think they all do realize what that would quickly mean as far as the response.

Not to mention, a lot of Cartel members are, and have been, in negotiations with the US to surrender over here and do jail time as a result of the crackdown in Mexico right now. Some of the names are pretty significant. It's like it suddenly dawned on a lot of them that their dreams of growing old, retired on some giant hacienda, are just not going to happen.

Calderon and the Mexican government's anti-drug policies are working, and if they can stay the course, there is no telling what the eventual fall out will be. We are already seeing some strange alliances as the Cartels try and work their problems out with each other as they realize what is at stake for them.
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