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  #1  
Old 19 October 2015, 16:08
justamedic justamedic is offline
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Veteran EMT Support Act

I posted this in The Lounge because I feel that it isn't SOF Med exclusive, and because it may not get the hits it deserves if it were in the Veteran Issues forum.

Currently, for military service members in healthcare related fields there is not direct reciprocity to becoming an EMT or Paramedic, there mostly is not even an expedient indirect way other than taking an entire class - essentially starting from scratch.

While I am not a veteran myself, it is a disservice to our veterans to not allow their time and experience in military medicine to translate over to the civilian sector.

This bill would pave that path allowing for military medics (of all sorts) to gain civilian qualifications to better suit them to be readily employable at the end of their military service. There is still much support needed in the legislative branch, and I encourage each of you reading this to contact your senators and congressmen in support of the bill. I have done so already, and I hope that this bill easily passes through the red tape.

There are arguments against this and that there should be some bridge course to civilian medic equivalency, but I would prefer that not what this thread be turned into. I would just like to put this information out to the SOCNET airwaves I hope that the long arm of SOCNET can reach out and share this in support of some of those who served our nation.

Here is a link for more detailed information:
http://www.ems1.com/ems-advocacy/art...onal-sponsors/

To find your legislators click here:
http://bfy.tw/2Mfn
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  #2  
Old 20 October 2015, 11:31
paramedic68whiskey paramedic68whiskey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justamedic View Post
I posted this in The Lounge because I feel that it isn't SOF Med exclusive, and because it may not get the hits it deserves if it were in the Veteran Issues forum.

Currently, for military service members in healthcare related fields there is not direct reciprocity to becoming an EMT or Paramedic, there mostly is not even an expedient indirect way other than taking an entire class - essentially starting from scratch.

While I am not a veteran myself, it is a disservice to our veterans to not allow their time and experience in military medicine to translate over to the civilian sector.

This bill would pave that path allowing for military medics (of all sorts) to gain civilian qualifications to better suit them to be readily employable at the end of their military service. There is still much support needed in the legislative branch, and I encourage each of you reading this to contact your senators and congressmen in support of the bill. I have done so already, and I hope that this bill easily passes through the red tape.

There are arguments against this and that there should be some bridge course to civilian medic equivalency, but I would prefer that not what this thread be turned into. I would just like to put this information out to the SOCNET airwaves I hope that the long arm of SOCNET can reach out and share this in support of some of those who served our nation.

Here is a link for more detailed information:
http://www.ems1.com/ems-advocacy/art...onal-sponsors/

To find your legislators click here:
http://bfy.tw/2Mfn
All 68Ws are NR-Bs and one of our SOF Medics might be able to let us know if those in the JFK pipeline are getting their P cert. PJ,s do, not sure on the rest of the branches.

National Registry is working on making sure people in the service can get the certs they need for civilian employment. It's taken a long time.
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Old 20 October 2015, 11:48
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
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This has been a contentious issue since, oh, well....forever. I know some programs are advocating on behalf of the advanced tactical provider like the new PA program at UNC-CH; there is the ATP cert for those more field-oriented. But, it used to be that being a Navy IDC would net you your first year of PA school, and that has long since gone the way of the dinosaur.

As a former mil medicine provider I would love to see some more inroads of our vets getting traction in this area.
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Old 20 October 2015, 11:53
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Moved here because the section titles aren't suggestions.
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Old 20 October 2015, 12:34
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Originally Posted by Devildoc View Post
This has been a contentious issue since, oh, well....forever. I know some programs are advocating on behalf of the advanced tactical provider like the new PA program at UNC-CH; there is the ATP cert for those more field-oriented. But, it used to be that being a Navy IDC would net you your first year of PA school, and that has long since gone the way of the dinosaur.

As a former mil medicine provider I would love to see some more inroads of our vets getting traction in this area.
I agree with DevilDoc, some veterans have to take some training to qualify for certain jobs, an state requirements. The military is changing the way training is done now that all medical MEDIC are trained the same, A combat Medic training, has increased (The last time I looked up it up it was a year long, again this depended on the MOS an they type of unit.
Special Ops Medic would have more specified training. Correct me if I am wrong but I think it is about 18 months for them or longer now. Ft Sam is doing most of the Medic training now for all branched of the Military in order to have all MEDIC to be trained the same.
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Old 20 October 2015, 12:46
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There are arguments against this and that there should be some bridge course to civilian medic equivalency, but I would prefer that not what this thread be turned into.
As already stated here, line medics (at least in the Army) come out of the pipeline with NREMT-B.

SOCM/18D at one time received a paramedic card but no longer due to a number of factors. There has been talk of going back to it but it hasn't happened.

And, this discussion CANNOT be had without mentioning that one of two things MUST happen to ensure requisite knowledge of the provider and safety for the civilian patient: (a) the military training pipeline would have to adapt to teaching all of the civilian reqs of EMS, which tend to not be applicable to the working environment; OR (b) a military medic would need to take a brief "transition" course when coming out in order to gain civilian certification - OR - test out in written and skills (whereas right now many advanced providers do wind up having to sit through an entire school from scratch).

For EMT, this would not be so much of an issue as many of the KSAs are essentially the same (and if a medic keeps their NREMT-B cert there is no issue whatsoever), but in higher-level EMS certifications, there is some discrepancy between mil/civ sector (although more guys at SOCM/18D are getting ACLS and the like these days, there are still some small holes throughout curriculum).

The proposed bill you mention is not intended to blanket hand-over national/state EMS certs of any level to all medics. It is intended to create a standard transition program (either automatic equivalency for lower level certs or standard short curriculum for transition for higher level), as there are currently very limited options in only select states (some states do actually allow ATP to challenge state Paramedic licensure).

It is in fact a travesty that it has taken this long to begin a discussion of a standardized transition program across the country, but again, it would highly benefit everyone (medic and patient alike) for there to be a brief refresher/transition course (nowhere near the full school time) as this will re-hone the knowledge and skills as they apply to the civilian environment.

There are many more intricate details than what I have put above, and we can get into them if you want. I just didn't want to write a book on here right off the bat.

Edited to add: In regards to a transition program and its necessity, think of the old adage of "use it or lose it". From personal experience, you forget allot of the nuances of treating emergency medical patients when you spend most of your time focused on trauma and primary care. When I came back to the civilian sector, I had to put my nose in a book for quite a while to get brought back up to speed, especially in pediatrics.

Last edited by O_Pos; 20 October 2015 at 13:02.
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Old 20 October 2015, 14:16
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Originally Posted by O_Pos View Post
Edited to add: In regards to a transition program and its necessity, think of the old adage of "use it or lose it". From personal experience, you forget allot of the nuances of treating emergency medical patients when you spend most of your time focused on trauma and primary care. When I came back to the civilian sector, I had to put my nose in a book for quite a while to get brought back up to speed, especially in pediatrics.
A long time ago (1992ish) when I was a civvy EMTP a couple 18Ds rode with me for some clinical time (EMS service about 100 miles from Bragg). We went to the usual EMS calls, and you could tell that there was dust on their neurons with regard to the little old ladies (geriatrics) and with general peds. But then....we went to a head-on MVC, police car went across the double-yellow line in high-speed pursuit, hit an oncoming car, driver pinned, AFU'd. Those medics were outstanding, really in their element. I just sit back and let them do their thing. Just an example of exactly what you had mentioned.

I have seen too many military medical providers, and not just the high-speed folks, beat their heads against the wall trying to make a life in a civilian medical job (or trying to get one anyway). This is many, many years past due and hope it really gets traction.
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Old 20 October 2015, 14:33
justamedic justamedic is offline
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Originally Posted by paramedic68whiskey View Post
All 68Ws are NR-Bs and one of our SOF Medics might be able to let us know if those in the JFK pipeline are getting their P cert. PJ,s do, not sure on the rest of the branches.
I did not know that 68W's got their B card. I am glad to hear that. In 2011-2012 many 68W's in Kuwait I encountered did not have that opportunity. Perhaps they went through training prior to this becoming the norm. There are, however, 4 other branches to account for. I think they all deserve to be recognized. I am happy to hear the Army is doing things right.

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Originally Posted by Devildoc View Post
This has been a contentious issue since, oh, well....forever...As a former mil medicine provider I would love to see some more inroads of our vets getting traction in this area.
Agreed 100%. I am glad there is finally legislation in the works.

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Originally Posted by Silverbullet View Post
Moved here because the section titles aren't suggestions.
Roger. It will not be an issue again.

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Originally Posted by O_Pos View Post
....
(b) a military medic would need to take a brief "transition" course when coming out in order to gain civilian certification - OR - test out in written and skills (whereas right now many advanced providers do wind up having to sit through an entire school from scratch).

For EMT, this would not be so much of an issue as many of the KSAs are essentially the same (and if a medic keeps their NREMT-B cert there is no issue whatsoever), but in higher-level EMS certifications, there is some discrepancy between mil/civ sector (although more guys at SOCM/18D are getting ACLS and the like these days, there are still some small holes throughout curriculum).
....
Agree 100%.

Quote:
The proposed bill you mention is not intended to blanket hand-over national/state EMS certs of any level to all medics. It is intended to create a standard transition program (either automatic equivalency for lower level certs or standard short curriculum for transition for higher level), as there are currently very limited options in only select states (some states do actually allow ATP to challenge state Paramedic licensure).
Correct, and it is also to ensure that the in demand vacancies in some states (it will be registry based) are filled with these particular civilian qualified providers who are discharged from AD.
Jobs for veterans, and enabling a platform for them to become civilian certified.

Quote:
It is in fact a travesty that it has taken this long to begin a discussion of a standardized transition program across the country, but again, it would highly benefit everyone (medic and patient alike) for there to be a brief refresher/transition course (nowhere near the full school time) as this will re-hone the knowledge and skills as they apply to the civilian environment.

There are many more intricate details than what I have put above, and we can get into them if you want. I just didn't want to write a book on here right off the bat.
I concur with everything you said 100%. We are singing the same song. I don't imagine anyone just showing a mil ID and being handed a NR card or state certification. Transition courses and testing are necessary and I would imagine (IMHO) that Basic or Advanced NR certifications would be enough, as the DOT paramedic curriculum does not even compare to military medicine in adult and pediatric medical life support, pathophys, diseases, etc. An additional bridge to the paramedic level should be required just due to the wide array of KSAs.

I am just happy, again, that there is now legislation in the works. (I know this idea has had variations and proposals before, but I am not sure of it was at the level of becoming a federal law/program). This was proposed by the NAEMT (a civilian organization) not the military or VA, which I find to be probably one of the most useful things the NAEMT has done in quite some time.

As it stands currently, the movement requires you and the rest of us to contact all of your reps to express your support for this bill. It needs more congressional sponsors to get the ball rolling. This is the first step.
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Old 20 October 2015, 15:23
paramedic68whiskey paramedic68whiskey is offline
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I did not know that 68W's got their B card. I am glad to hear that. In 2011-2012 many 68W's in Kuwait I encountered did not have that opportunity. Perhaps they went through training prior to this becoming the norm. There are, however, 4 other branches to account for. I think they all deserve to be recognized. I am happy to hear the Army is doing things right.



Agreed 100%. I am glad there is finally legislation in the works.



Roger. It will not be an issue again.



Agree 100%.


Correct, and it is also to ensure that the in demand vacancies in some states (it will be registry based) are filled with these particular civilian qualified providers who are discharged from AD.
Jobs for veterans, and enabling a platform for them to become civilian certified.



I concur with everything you said 100%. We are singing the same song. I don't imagine anyone just showing a mil ID and being handed a NR card or state certification. Transition courses and testing are necessary and I would imagine (IMHO) that Basic or Advanced NR certifications would be enough, as the DOT paramedic curriculum does not even compare to military medicine in adult and pediatric medical life support, pathophys, diseases, etc. An additional bridge to the paramedic level should be required just due to the wide array of KSAs.

I am just happy, again, that there is now legislation in the works. (I know this idea has had variations and proposals before, but I am not sure of it was at the level of becoming a federal law/program). This was proposed by the NAEMT (a civilian organization) not the military or VA, which I find to be probably one of the most useful things the NAEMT has done in quite some time.

As it stands currently, the movement requires you and the rest of us to contact all of your reps to express your support for this bill. It needs more congressional sponsors to get the ball rolling. This is the first step.
That's odd, I think it was either 07 or 08 when all 68Ws had to transition. 09 we lost a lot of Medics due to being unable to pass NR. That was Big Army who put that down. I was close friends with a couple and they had to be re-classed. They were excellent line Medics, but were old school military, and the civy stuff got them. One was sent off twice before PDT and it sucked losing him.

Type O hit the nail on the head. I just hope we will see easier transition for our folks in SOF all across the board. Drop the bureaucrats and do the right thing.

It is amazing though, I had to take a test not long ago based off the text book and damn I passed by the skin of my teeth. Popping the books again myself, and along with the other books I have to read for school its a lot of info to retain when you don't use it all the time.
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Old 20 October 2015, 18:01
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I am not on the NR bandwagon. As long as each State has its own fiefdom to protect, national registry will not be taking over policy, procedure and or treatment protocols for individual States.

Hell the State of California has required NR for initial licensure, but still wants you to pass the State test, and you can dump it after being licensed. I do not see where they want it for the long term.
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Old 20 October 2015, 18:25
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I am not on the NR bandwagon. As long as each State has its own fiefdom to protect, national registry will not be taking over policy, procedure and or treatment protocols for individual States.
NREMT is not attempting to take-over SOPs/Protocols for states or licensed EMS agencies. NREMT only attempts to establish a standardized minimum/baseline competency for a given level. This is most definitely needed.

As far as states that accept NREMT (a majority of which actually require for initial certification/licensure), visit https://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/st...procitymap.asp

You'll note that basically all but MAYBE 5-10 require NREMT.

If this proposed legislation established a standard transition pathway from military cert to civilian cert, based on filling gaps in national curriculum, that would be ideal.
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Old 20 October 2015, 18:33
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O Pos looking at it from your POV I agree it can be a a very good way to standardize various pathways as folks transition from military to cert/license in the civilian world. Will this act cover other providers such as RT's, and other providers?
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Old 20 October 2015, 18:54
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This motion was started by the NAEMT (National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians) which is an association of paid members of the EMS community, and not the NREMT (National Registry of Emergency Medical Technicians) which is the registry body that is responsible for primary testing of skills and didactic knowledge in standardized form. EMS folks already know this, but for the lay folks out there: obtaining an NREMT card at any level is not a certification or license to practice at that level. (Including those 68W's that have the card). It is merely that you have met the baseline competencies established by the DOT nationally and meet the minimum standards. Most states, including mine, have their own tests on local protocols and knowledge that you must pass to gain a certification to practice, yet you are still required to hold an NREMT card and a course completion certificate from a school prior to testing. Re: NREMT vs. NAEMT - They are separate entities; at this point I have seen word none from the NREMT on the topic.

As far as this bill goes- it is exclusive to EMS, and specifically to fill much needed EMS vacancies by veterans who were medics. Essentially creating a registry and being sort of middle man in getting military medics NREMT and state/county certified to be employable in places with high demand.

It is not the ultimate door opening action that gives blanket reciprocity (as was mentioned previously). It is however a great start and a progression.
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Old 20 October 2015, 19:00
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Here is a bullet point summarization of what this bill will do. It's a federal program that leaves a lot of autonomy to the states as well.

Quote:
The Veteran Emergency Medical Technicians Support Act of 2015:

Amends the Public Health Service Act to direct the Department of Health and Human Services to establish a demonstration program for states with a shortage of EMTs to streamline state requirements and procedures to assist veterans who completed military EMT training to meet state EMT certification, licensure and other requirements;

Determines the extent to which the requirements for the education, training, and skill level of emergency medical technicians in the state are equivalent to requirements for the education, training, and skill level of military emergency medical technicians;

Identifies methods, such as waivers, for military emergency medical technicians to forego or meet any such equivalent state requirements; and

Gives priority to states that demonstrate a shortage of emergency medical technicians.
The way I am reading it, it appears geared at the EMT basic level. However, it leaves room for states to decide what skill level a veteran fits into and what further training/testing they would require, but also allows for waivers.
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Last edited by justamedic; 20 October 2015 at 19:05.
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Old 15 April 2016, 10:50
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The ball is still rolling on this. If you live in the DC area, please join-in so congress will listen.

From JSOM's briefing today:

Hundreds of Emergency Medical Services (EMS) professionals will assemble April 20th on Capitol Hill to request support from Congress for important legislation. One of the topics that are of great importance is: S. 453/H.R. 1818, the Veteran Emergency Medical Technicians Support Act of 2015 - to streamline the process for military medics, trained to provide medical care on the battlefield, who seek certification and licensure for employment in EMS upon their return to civilian life.
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Old 15 April 2016, 12:51
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Good news.
I hope they get enough numbers to turn out; if I weren't on the other side of the country I'd be there.
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Old 16 April 2016, 09:50
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April 20, 2016 (briefing April 19) Washington, D.C.​

The headquarters hotel for these events is the Hilton Crystal City at Washington Reagan National Airport.

Detailed info at below link.

https://www.naemt.org/advocacy/emson...heHillDay.aspx
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  #18  
Old 12 May 2016, 22:27
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Today the bill passed in the US House as amended.
Progress.
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Old 13 May 2016, 07:56
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what about other occupations that were military certified but can't be civilian certified?
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Old 13 May 2016, 12:20
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Well... I'm not sure. This was specifically for medics. It still has to work its way through the rest of the chain before becoming law.

MP and firefighter MOSs do not get reciprocity in the civilian world either to my understanding. I'm sure there are a host more.
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