Veterans Prone to Low-Testosterone

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by Doc P

Anyone taking testosterone boosting supplements? I've looked at some products from Onnit and Origin, but am going to wait until I get a physical and some blood work done as suggested in this threat. Good info, thanks all.

Snake Oil, don't waste your money. There are *some* herbs that can very minimally increase Testosterone, but it will only be 50-100 points. That will do absolutely nothing (your natural diurnal rhythm swings more than that - that's why Testosterone is always ((or should be)) drawn in the AM). At $50 a month for most of those snake oil products, you could have 4 months of actual Testosterone.

[CV]

My T is fine, but on the lower end of fine. Doctor said to lift weights. Not even anything crazy, just 3 times a week lifting. It has had dramatic effects.

[Sigi]

Originally Posted by Polypro

The only thing that sucks is that name brand hCG is expensive no matter what - you really need a compounding pharmacy for that. hCG is Human Chorionic Gonadotropin and is a Leutinizing Hormone mimetic - prevents Leydig Cell atrophy (due to exogenous testosterone) as well as binding to the LH receptors *all over the body* - they're there for a reason. All in, I pay under $300 every 4 months for all supplies.

So I would want to take hCG along with my shots?

Originally Posted by Fubar

Get it done. I'm in my late 50s and still have a high drive. No reason to live like an old man. It might also help you with the emotional swings you used to display on here. Haven't seen that in quite some time though, so you are doing something right.

She prescribed 12 weeks worth and will follow up on blood work after those 12 weeks. My last testosterone blood work from earlier this year was high 200's. Very low. My insurance won't cover this but if I remember correctly it was in the $100 range for 3 mos worth.

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by CV

My T is fine, but on the lower end of fine. Doctor said to lift weights. Not even anything crazy, just 3 times a week lifting. It has had dramatic effects.

How low? What were the Total and Free numbers? Was this dramatic effect documented by follow up blood work? Losing body fat helps, as it reduces the amount of the Aromatase Enzyme that converts Testosterone to Estrogen, thereby raising your Free Testosterone. Carbohydrates slightly lower Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, also freeing up some T. But total production isn't going to go from say 300 to 800 from working out.

But, if you feel great, you feel great - only you can be the judge - good doctors treat the symptoms and not the numbers - if you are symptom free, G2G.

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by Sigi

So I would want to take hCG along with my shots?

She prescribed 12 weeks worth and will follow up on blood work after those 12 weeks. My last testosterone blood work from earlier this year was high 200's. Very low. My insurance won't cover this but if I remember correctly it was in the $100 range for 3 mos worth.

The leaders in Interventional Endocrinology (Saya, Crisler, et. al.) recommend 10 units every morning. Since hCG needs to be refrigerated after it is re-constituted, any short travel trips can be covered by, for example, 20 units every 2 days, 30 units every 3 days, etc... And it's not a big deal to skip a week or so if you run out, etc... That is for male HRT - hCG was originally created for fertility purposes, and has many other dosing protocols.

HRT is for life. If you were Rx'd because of Primary Hypogonadism, it needs to be forever (and low 200's = YES), not just 12 weeks. Even Secondary Hypogonadisim may require HRT if they can't "fix" what is wrong with the Hypothalamus or Pituitary (like removing an Adenoma). I hope, hope, hope she is not going to look at your 12 week follow up bloods and say "ok, you're good, you don't need this any more" - you will crash even lower than before, while waiting for your endogenous production to (fingers crossed!) get you back to 200. Are you doing your own injections? If not, you don't want to go longer than a week between injections. I do 90mg every 3.5 days, SubQ into Glute Fat - nice peak and trough, no wild swings. There are some wingnuts out there that look at their laptops and say "once every 14 to 21 days" - NO!, the half life of Test Cypionate is 5-7 days. Depending on the dosage they Rx, you will either skyrocket at the beginning or crash before the next injection - or both.

There's another method of HRT that some doctors want to try. They Rx the orally dosed Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) Enclomiphene Citrate (ClomidTM) to try to get the "boys" pumping again. It tricks the HPTA into thinking you have no Estrogen, by blocking the receptors - thereby sending the signal via LH to the Testes to "make more!". It can work, but your then on a chemical for life. "Restarts" are rarely successful (where they take you back off, but your boys keep going). I'd rather be on a natural hormone for life, than a chemical drug.

By the way: I AM NOT A DOCTOR - I just relay what mine has taught me. Run everything by yours, see what they say, and if you don't like what you hear, get a second opinion - just like with every other health problem.

[Sigi]

Originally Posted by Polypro

I hope, hope, hope she is not going to look at your 12 week follow up bloods and say "ok, you're good, you don't need this any more" - you will crash even lower than before, while waiting for your endogenous production to (fingers crossed!) get you back to 200.

Are you doing your own injections?

We discussed the long term usage and she is on board with me staying on it as long as the results are there. Dummy me stopped on my own after 10 weeks (yes I did notice a difference/improvement) with no follow up blood work for her to review.

Yes I do my own injections.

[Sigi]

Originally Posted by Polypro

The leaders in Interventional Endocrinology (Saya, Crisler, et. al.) recommend 10 units every morning. Since hCG needs to be refrigerated after it is re-constituted, any short travel trips can be covered by, for example, 20 units every 2 days, 30 units every 3 days, etc... And it's not a big deal to skip a week or so if you run out, etc...

Hope I am not wasting your time here - do I need a script for hCG? Can I grab this from Amazon? They're advertising them as weight loss/ slenderizing drops.

[Doctor_Doom]

Originally Posted by Polypro

And I apologize in advance - no harm, no foul my friend Just have seen and heard too many idiots in the GenPop medical industry that are clueless about HRT, because they entered residency in 1955 and haven't cracked a book since.

Peace

No worries man, didn’t take what you said as anything!

[Maverick]

For those that are considering this, I've got insurance through Blue Cross Blue Shield, and they cover TRT. I go in once a week for an injection and get blood work done ever 3 months. The place I go was even kind enough to wave my co-pay as they do with all veterans, LEOs and first-responders. So I pay nothing for the treatment! I love it :)

[MixedLoad]

Originally Posted by Maverick

For those that are considering this, I've got insurance through Blue Cross Blue Shield, and they cover TRT. I go in once a week for an injection and get blood work done ever 3 months. The place I go was even kind enough to wave my co-pay as they do with all veterans, LEOs and first-responders. So I pay nothing for the treatment! I love it :)

That's great. I'm hoping I can connect with Poly's guy before too long.

[Mars]

Originally Posted by Maverick

For those that are considering this, I've got insurance through Blue Cross Blue Shield, and they cover TRT. I go in once a week for an injection and get blood work done ever 3 months. The place I go was even kind enough to wave my co-pay as they do with all veterans, LEOs and first-responders. So I pay nothing for the treatment! I love it :)

Are those injections for "life" now? I was told that once you start, you stay on them since they curtail your bodies normal testosterone from being produced.

[Maverick]

Originally Posted by MixedLoad

That's great. I'm hoping I can connect with Poly's guy before too long.

Hurry up and land a job in DFW, and you'll get the same deal

[Maverick]

Originally Posted by Agoge

Are those injections for "life" now? I was told that once you start, you stay on them since they curtail your bodies normal testosterone from being produced.

No, they have a means of taking you off, but you may return back to your low-t status. Since I'm on HCG, my 'stuff' still works, so I have no plans on ever stopping the treatment.

[Mars]

Originally Posted by Maverick

No, they have a means of taking you off, but you may return back to your low-t status. Since I'm on HCG, my 'stuff' still works, so I have no plans on ever stopping the treatment.

Thanks! I have my annual checkup this coming Monday and I will certainly be talking to him about this.

[Maverick]

Originally Posted by Agoge

Thanks! I have my annual checkup this coming Monday and I will certainly be talking to him about this.

As Poly has outlined already, I've heard stories that some family doctors are opposed and really just aren't up to speed with the treatment. I myself opted to see a specialist.

[Mars]

Originally Posted by Maverick

As Poly has outlined already, I've heard stories that some family doctors are opposed and really just aren't up to speed with the treatment. I myself opted to see a specialist.

I can certainly check with my urologist. His office is across the street from my GP. Makes it great for stuff like this. Thanks again!

[ExSquid]

Low T is a real problem with high mileage SOF guys and many require TRT. Unfortunately guys abused the system in the past so USASOC released an Androgen Deficiency Clinical Practice Guideline (CPG) to help guide providers through the initial evaluation and treatment of patients. They diagnose hypogonadism based on consistent signs and symptoms of androgen deficiency and (2) consecutive unequivocally low serum testosterone (below 300 ng/dL). This isn't to say these hurdles are untenable, but it takes more time to work the process now than it did five (5) years ago. One thing that hangs guys up is sleep apnea which is also a big problem in high mileage SOF guys. They make you get tested for sleep apnea first and if you have it, they make you get that under control first before you can continue the process toward receiving TRT. Apparently, sleep apnea can negatively affect your testosterone levels. And yes, TBI can play havoc with your pituitary system and is a big contributor as well.

x/S

[256]

Originally Posted by ExSquid

And yes, TBI can play havoc with your pituitary system and is a big contributor as well.

x/S

That was my issue. I did an injection and 3 days later my endo pulled blood to check my levels, 800’s, good to go. She called me back and said she was going to take me off because my levels were normal. I told her yeah, because I just injected 3 days ago. I have zero complaints with the Cleveland VA, I’ve had exceptional care there. I just couldn’t understand why she was going to take me off after finally getting back into shape, and feeling 1000% better. She said in some cases natural test levels come back after TRT. I got a second opinion from my family doc that diagnosed me first. He said that her opinion was completely wrong, and taking me off would be “fucking dumb” (he’s a cool doc). So I’m now I am getting it through my work insurance for 10 bucks a month; 200mg every 10 days.

I’m not bashing her opinion because that the hell do I know, but it shows how each doc either doesn’t understand treatment options or maybe my natural levels would have stayed up, but he says he strongly doubted it. How can it go back, he said, your natural production is gone. With that being said, I absolutely need to talk to him about HGC.

[wildman43]

To dam old to worry about it, beside I have to fine some young lady that would like to have a Sugar daddy

But you younger guys go for it.

[1RiserSlip]

Poly could probably hit more home runs than Mark McGuire and Jose Canseco combined with all the supplements he's on.