SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > U.S. Naval Special Warfare > Navy SEALs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #141  
Old 23 November 2019, 16:22
Gray Rhyno's Avatar
Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NoVa
Posts: 11,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Why do I even know there is a such a thing as a "Trident Review Board?" This seems a lot like whether a SEAL is PNG or not. None of my business. I didn't like big Navy prosecuting SEALs but if the SEALs themselves had convened this board in lieu of prosecution, more power to them. A prosecutor saying he committed war crimes is a hell of a lot different than a group of SEAL master chiefs saying he should no longer wear the trident. The only reason this has blossomed into a cluster fuck is that he was very publicly prosecuted instead of being sent before this review board. Hopefully the learning is that this review board process comes first and SEALs choose their own members. Horrible precedent if politicians start deciding who wears the trident or who doesn't.
What if the SEALs making the decision ARE politicians/politically motivated?
__________________
"The most HSLD stuff ever taught was the basics. So-called 'advanced training' is often no more than the very fluid and expert application of those basic skills." - SOTB
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 23 November 2019, 17:39
AZ5326's Avatar
AZ5326 AZ5326 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sltwtr1 View Post
That is exactly what I said in my OP.

Hence, I am trying to figure out what I am missing?

Thanks

Sltwtr1

OUT
General Order #1. The drinking happened in country (I think).
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 23 November 2019, 17:40
AZ5326's Avatar
AZ5326 AZ5326 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
What if the SEALs making the decision ARE politicians/politically motivated?
Never trust anyone with a star.
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 23 November 2019, 19:01
Gray Rhyno's Avatar
Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NoVa
Posts: 11,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sltwtr1 View Post
Hence, I am trying to figure out what I am missing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
General Order #1. The drinking happened in country (I think).
If it's not GO #1, then I imagine it fall under the general idea of fraternization with enlisted men, punishable under either Article 133 or maybe 134.
__________________
"The most HSLD stuff ever taught was the basics. So-called 'advanced training' is often no more than the very fluid and expert application of those basic skills." - SOTB
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 23 November 2019, 19:33
Steve40th Steve40th is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Posts: 1,910
Drinking with Team members, whether Os or Es is simply comradery. Big Boy rules.. If you cant drink with your team mates, for Gods sake.
I know the UCMJ is what our Military follows, but drinking a beer with your team is sacred..
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 23 November 2019, 20:00
WGH0922 WGH0922 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Never trust anyone with a star.
LOL. That's GO #1 for us enlisted pukes.
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 23 November 2019, 20:11
Gsniper Gsniper is offline
Shakin' the bush Boss
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 8,905
That's precisely why I spent most of my career trying to NOT interact with anybody above the rank of O2.
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 24 November 2019, 16:51
CLEARED HOT's Avatar
CLEARED HOT CLEARED HOT is offline
Chlorox Doctor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Behind Enemy Lines
Posts: 2,969
Clown Show.
__________________
You'll ride a black tornado across the western sky.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 24 November 2019, 22:05
Frog's Avatar
Frog Frog is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,802
Learning point: If POTUS steps into your legal investigation, he has the final say. Cant resist the pun, the Trump card.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 24 November 2019, 23:27
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
Did...did I do that?
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Green Country, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,226
SECNAV is out.

Quote:
Defense Secretary Mark Esper forced out Richard Spencer, the secretary of the Navy, over his handling of a Navy SEAL whose demotion for a war crimes charge had sparked objection from President Donald Trump.

Esper asked for Spencer's resignation "after losing trust and confidence in him regarding his lack of candor" because he failed to tell Esper of a "private proposal" he made to the White House that would have allowed Navy Chief Petty Officer Eddie Gallagher to keep his rank and SEAL status, Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said in a statement.

"I am deeply troubled by this conduct shown by a senior DOD official," Esper said. "Unfortunately, as a result I have determined that Secretary Spencer no longer has my confidence to continue in his position. I wish Richard well."
__________________
This message is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.
Reply With Quote
  #151  
Old 25 November 2019, 04:46
RichTales RichTales is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pope, Lockbourne, Howard
Posts: 38
I'm just curious and couldn't find out online, did CPO Adam Matthews have his trident taken away?

If not, what's worse, taking a photo with a dead Taliban, drinking with your comrades, or killing an SF workmate?

In my way of thinking, if you went through, and finished, what it takes to earn that trident, it should be yours for life..., regardless.
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 25 November 2019, 12:40
peter28 peter28 is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLEARED HOT View Post
Clown Show.
To this point: maybe POTUS doesn't really give a damn - as long as the media are not talking about impeachment, Ukraine, quid pro quo, etc...

Look at the cnn.com. THe impeachment conversation isn't on top. I'm not watching it on TV, but I'd conjecture that it's not the lead story.
__________________
This is my signature.
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 25 November 2019, 13:30
DC Photog's Avatar
DC Photog DC Photog is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter28 View Post
To this point: maybe POTUS doesn't really give a damn - as long as the media are not talking about impeachment, Ukraine, quid pro quo, etc...

Look at the cnn.com. THe impeachment conversation isn't on top. I'm not watching it on TV, but I'd conjecture that it's not the lead story.
Congress is on recess for the holiday. There won't be as much impeachment buzz without new hearings.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 25 November 2019, 13:50
peter28 peter28 is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Photog View Post
Congress is on recess for the holiday. There won't be as much impeachment buzz without new hearings.
Good point. However, I don't think the media needs congress to be in session to run "analysis" on the impeachment proceedings.

Overall, I think the administration benefits from having us talk about this pardon, reinstatement of rank, anything but Ukraine, etc, vs Ukraine.
__________________
This is my signature.
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 25 November 2019, 20:57
CLEARED HOT's Avatar
CLEARED HOT CLEARED HOT is offline
Chlorox Doctor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Behind Enemy Lines
Posts: 2,969
I was referring to the clown show that ensued prior to POTUS stepping in. NSW allowed the shoe Navy to come in and take over thus leaving Eddie behind. Something in the NSW Community that is a banishable offense and transcends SOF as a whole. SECNAV is only the beginning IMHO. It's not about the Trump Card effect, which was the right thing to do btw, it's about what NSW did to Eddie prior to. To the press... these are all my opinions and my opinions alone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peter28 View Post
To this point: maybe POTUS doesn't really give a damn - as long as the media are not talking about impeachment, Ukraine, quid pro quo, etc...

Look at the cnn.com. THe impeachment conversation isn't on top. I'm not watching it on TV, but I'd conjecture that it's not the lead story.
__________________
You'll ride a black tornado across the western sky.
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 26 November 2019, 00:36
peter28 peter28 is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLEARED HOT View Post
I was referring to the clown show that ensued prior to POTUS stepping in.
ok, got it - I thought you were referring to the clown show in itís entirety...
__________________
This is my signature.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 26 November 2019, 16:59
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 2,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichTales View Post
I'm just curious and couldn't find out online, did CPO Adam Matthews have his trident taken away?

If not, what's worse, taking a photo with a dead Taliban, drinking with your comrades, or killing an SF workmate?

In my way of thinking, if you went through, and finished, what it takes to earn that trident, it should be yours for life..., regardless.
I have been just reading this thread, learning. But to this point, if it is like every other warfare device in the Navy, it can be revoked for offenses from the relatively minor all the way to the significantly major. But the offenses are clear, and there is a process.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 26 November 2019, 18:04
Sharky's Avatar
Sharky Sharky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: SOCNET
Posts: 20,758
I don't know the dude at all. Maybe he is guilty as sin and a dirtbag. Maybe the opposite. But I do know that the prosecution and big Navy did some low down shit to try to lock him up and because of that I am glad he went free. Prosecutorial misconduct like that should be prosecuted just as hard as what they went after him for. If you are going to take away someone's freedom and destroy their life, you better have your shit together and make sure you do it right. You dont get to commit a crime to be able to lock someone else up for committing a crime.

I was removed from a case once by the FBI for pointing out something very similar where they were doing something that was shady as fuck (entrapment) to get a dude to flip on a US Customs Special Agent, and they justified it by saying it was okay since it wasn't going to court. Not cool.
__________________
I was born my papa's son
When I hit the ground I was on the run
I had one glad hand and the other behind
You can have yours, just give me mine
When the hound dog barkin' in the black of the night
Stick my hand in my pocket, everything's all right

-ZZ Top
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 26 November 2019, 18:18
Gray Rhyno's Avatar
Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NoVa
Posts: 11,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoc View Post
I have been just reading this thread, learning. But to this point, if it is like every other warfare device in the Navy, it can be revoked for offenses from the relatively minor all the way to the significantly major. But the offenses are clear, and there is a process.
And it wasn't a big deal (at least it wasn't in the media that I saw) until POTUS told Big Navy they couldn't reduce him to E-6. I still think "they" are mad they got caught railroading a sailor (whether or not he was guilty; the prosecution did some shady shit) and are trying to get even with the Chief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
I was removed from a case once by the FBI for pointing out something very similar where they were doing something that was shady as fuck (entrapment) to get a dude to flip on a US Customs Special Agent, and they justified it by saying it was okay since it wasn't going to court. Not cool.
Good on you for pointing it out. Bad on them for the course they chose. I've had to lay my dick on the table over similar problems (nothing this egregious) and I've been fortunate that it never got nailed down.
__________________
"The most HSLD stuff ever taught was the basics. So-called 'advanced training' is often no more than the very fluid and expert application of those basic skills." - SOTB
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 26 November 2019, 18:42
Mars's Avatar
Mars Mars is offline
Renuo Victima Esse
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Shadow Gallery
Posts: 8,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
...I was removed from a case once by the FBI for pointing out something very similar where they were doing something that was shady as fuck (entrapment) to get a dude to flip on a US Customs Special Agent, and they justified it by saying it was okay since it wasn't going to court. Not cool.
Yep... for when the law breaks the law...there is no law. The end does not justify the means. If you can't get them the right way, then don't get them at all. If they are criminal, they will do it again and then you can get them the right way.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:30.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
© SOCNET 1996-2020