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Old 22 November 2019, 11:34
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Thermals Anyone? Trijicon MK3 35 v. ATN ThOR 4 384?

A friend of mine has by some weird ruminations put in charge of population control of deer and coyotes on FAA land in GA. The coyotes are serious murder puppies!

It would literally be possible to go hunt the little bastards every night they're so pervasive in some parts of the State apparently.

He's supplying the Gemtech Daggers, I only need to supply my own thermal.

I can get the Trij Mk3 at cost. But then again, the ATN ThOR 4 is at a VERY attractive price point, with some very cool tech. Spec'd out, it's still substantially less expensive than the Mk3.

What am I missing? Is the premium from Trijocon name that much, or are they legitimately that much better?
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Old 22 November 2019, 11:54
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You get what you pay for. I tried the ATN "cheap" route. I took it back and wound up buying a $3K Pulsar thermal.

Remember that there is a difference between IR and Thermal. The ATN I bought was an IR with an external light source requirement. The Pulsar I have now is a true thermal.
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Old 22 November 2019, 12:12
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Thanks!

Kinda thought that had to be the case and points well taken.

Once I read your post, I went back and looked, and considered all of the "stuff" that ATN purports to do, at a lower price point, which seems to boil the ocean. That doesn't usually end well.
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Old 22 November 2019, 12:13
Shark0311 Shark0311 is offline
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It appears that they both use the same microbolometer 640x480 @ 60Hz, though ATN has an option for a lower resolution 384x288 @ 60Hz. From there it's really about the features, housing and cost.

My uncle is a Pulsar dealer so I've used and like their products.
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Old 22 November 2019, 13:07
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Cut and paste from my NV guy, Ed Wilcox. He's an AF Vet who has been doing this for decades and is a true SME, has contracts with all kinds of agencies, etc.. He does custom builds with enhanced features (aluminum instead of plastic) at pretty much the same price point as you'd pay otherwise. I waited 4 months for Harris to be able to provide him with an OMNI IV 72lpm auto-gated tube with zero spots for my enhanced PVS-14 build. A true professional and I can't recommend him highly enough. When I was working in Iraq and we had no way to mount our PVS-14's to a helmet, he put 2 dozen Rhino mounting setups, strap and bracket, in a box and mailed them to me to hand out, one to each team. Gratis. I had a question on thermal gear and this is his response.

"As for Thermal, Scott Henry's company made some of the best gear with the best software. He sold his company to Trijicon E-O so that company may now have the best gear. Stay away from ATN. Their stuff looks fantastic and has really great features, but.... ATN not really know for quality or Customer Service and Support.

Also, if you want to have a handheld view and fusion for your PVS-14, their is a company that makes an "eyepiece" lens that clips on to the fusion thermal devices so that you can use it in both modes. Nivisys makes good Thermal too, having the same quality and features as Insight Technologies makes in their gear, more or less they are Insight Technology products."

One feature that helps keep the price down is the "resolution" aka pixel count of the sensor; 320 x 320 is less in cost than 640 x 640. Magnification is also another costly feature, 1 x to 10x will cost less than 5x to 40x. Keeping the SW features to a minimum also keeps the cost down.

As for the thermal hand held device, I would recommend the Trijicon Electro-Optics IR Patrol LE100 Series Thermal Monocular which has the higher 640 x 320 sensor (resolution) and would run you about $5,700.00 Vic has the best price for these. See: https://tnvc.com/shop/ir-patrol-le10...41839599609375

HTH.
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Old 23 November 2019, 07:01
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Helmet mounted Fusion is the tits, that's all I know. FLIR Breaches come up a lot. There's an NV section on arfcom (in Armory) - good info.
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Old 23 November 2019, 12:13
Shark0311 Shark0311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Helmet mounted Fusion is the tits, that's all I know. FLIR Breaches come up a lot. There's an NV section on arfcom (in Armory) - good info.
.

$45k? You must really hate coyotes.
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Old 23 November 2019, 15:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark0311 View Post
.

$45k? You must really hate coyotes.
Retail. You can get into fusion goggles sub $30K.
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Old 24 November 2019, 08:33
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Are thermals a must have?

I have killed more nocturnal animals than I can count.. everything from jackals and coyotes to pigs, raccoons,, etc .. with a simple high lumen green flashlight ($100 including a decent mounting system)..

NV and thermals definitely have their advantages.. but if you’re looking to yote hunt on a budget.. a $119 fox pro and a $100 green or red high lumen flashlight will fill the bed of a pickup with those fuckers if you’ll do your part..
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Old 24 November 2019, 10:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdwest View Post
Are thermals a must have?
.
Not at all.
Frankly speaking... I went coyote hunting with my buddy, used one of his Mk3's, and damn.... it was fun...

It's a shallow want, of a nice to have piece of kit that's motivated me to get back into hunting after a very long time. Lost the taste of hunting during the day years ago, not long after ETS'ing. Hunting at night is simply scratching an itch.

Looking at it from a buy once, cry once POV. But not $30k crying. That would be a full on tantrum
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Old 24 November 2019, 11:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark0311 View Post

$45k? You must really hate coyotes.

I just read enough to be dangerous, LOL! I'm not in the Thermal game yet.
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Old 26 November 2019, 00:29
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I have a FLIR PTS536(~$3200). It is pretty slick. The guy I bought it from upgraded to a HALO thermal(~$7500). I have another friend that has the FLIR PT233(~$1900). Looking through all three, you get what you pay for.

The three of us hunted coyotes one night a couple weeks ago. The thermals allowed us to shoot at all 6 coyotes we called in, we killed 3 that we found. I missed one, the other two were hit, but made it into a standing cornfield. Hands down the best night of calling I have had East of the Mississippi. There is nothing more frustrating than calling in these North East coyotes, and not getting a shot. I tried the visible light and you get one or two shots a season up here, usually first couple weeks in October, or on the snow when you can use the snow to get your gun on them before turning on the light.... Everyone is trying to call coyotes up here.
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Old 26 November 2019, 01:05
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I have a Trijicon (formerly IR Defense) REAP-IR. A buddy had one, I told him he was fucking crazy for spending that kind of money on an optic, then I made the mistake of looking through one.

I justify the expense because I use the shit out of it during our 8 month winters up here, and not always mounted to a rifle. I'm convinced that pixel for pixel it's better than the million dollar FLIR we had in the helicopter.

Use caution, this kind of shopping gets spendy fast
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Old 26 November 2019, 09:36
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here's what I was talking about for FUSION - The $6500 COTI:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...hermal-imager/

Nick Chen is pretty good at the NVG game - dude manages to gets his hands on *everything*.
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Old 27 November 2019, 00:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
here's what I was talking about for FUSION - The $6500 COTI:
$3500.00 for the COTI unit. Maybe $6500 if that includes the PVS-14 it's mounted on.
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Old 27 November 2019, 08:00
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Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
$3500.00 for the COTI unit. Maybe $6500 if that includes the PVS-14 it's mounted on.
Where'd you find it that cheap? Cheapest I see is $4995 at NV4Less.
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Old 27 November 2019, 08:43
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Quote:
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Where'd you find it that cheap? Cheapest I see is $4995 at NV4Less.
It's been a couple months since I was looking on eBay, there were a couple there at that price point then, but not now. If you're actually ready to buy, PM me and I'll put you in contact with the guy I mentioned in a previous post.
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Old 27 November 2019, 10:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
It's been a couple months since I was looking on eBay, there were a couple there at that price point then, but not now. If you're actually ready to buy, PM me and I'll put you in contact with the guy I mentioned in a previous post.

Ah, gotcha. Not a buyer, regular NV good enough for my use, but thanks.
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