SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > U.S. Naval Special Warfare > Navy SEALs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27 April 2013, 13:54
Octoberfest Octoberfest is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montana
Posts: 383
SEAL forced out of service?

Full article is on rangerup at: http://rhinoden.rangerup.com/citizen-seal/

General idea is:

1)SEAL writes a book containing personal opinions on political issues, attempts to go through his chain of command for clearance but is stonewalled
2)SEAL publishes book, almost immediately he is subject to retaliation from his command culminating in being stripped of his Trident and made to sign a DD-214 for "reduction in force", his discharge being "honorable"
3)Once a civilian he appears on a news show to promote his book and talk politics, and 4 days later receives a letter from the Navy informing him his discharge has been changed from "honorable" to "general" by a commander he never even served under.


I know nothing of the politics and policy at play in the military, figured some here might be able and willing to shed some light or offer perspective
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27 April 2013, 14:37
Justaclerk's Avatar
Justaclerk Justaclerk is offline
Drawing my cutlass
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 7,706
What a fucking travesty.
__________________
Quote:
Death is a farcical pile of bullshit.

I refuse to participate.

The Oatmeal
Quote:
...it could be raining pu$$y and troops will complain and blame the leadership for not providing an equal ration of a$$holes

Billy L-Bach
Quote:
In Special Forces we had a saying: "Work hard in silence, let your success do the talking."

Tracy
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27 April 2013, 14:57
SOTB's Avatar
SOTB SOTB is offline
Minus one, but more symmetrical....
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Clorox'ing the gene pool....
Posts: 33,022
This is a classic example of where it is likely best to wait for a a member of the forum-specific community (in this case a SEAL(s)) to weigh in before posting....
__________________
Losing faith in humanity, one assclown at a time....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27 April 2013, 15:24
bubblehead bubblehead is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: East Coast
Posts: 463
Never trust the first report.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27 April 2013, 17:34
Cass's Avatar
Cass Cass is offline
Valhalla July 4, 2016 RIP Frogman
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Valhalla
Posts: 5,932
I cannot get into rhino unless I sign up. But....

I have never heard of a Naval member being Discharged at mid term of enlisted contract against the wishes of the enlisted member unless there was a UCMJ action at work.

And I never heard of a Discharge being downgraded from Honorable to any other lower level after the Discharge date, in this case, General.

However, this whole scenario moves along at the wishes of the Chief of Naval Operations, or in this case, at the behest of the Chief of Naval Personnel. If the CNP says "Honorable" is not appropriate the member in question is taking on the Big Fish in the Navy which only under the most expensive circumstances can be brought to civil review, to wit: Court.

As far as a book containing less than acceptable dialog being stonewalled prior to printing, I would have to know what is really the definition of "Stonewalling" as the enlisted member puts it.

I have been on the inner circle of geeks who write books that are "no no's" in the classified world, and often the phrase "This is really not a good idea" is a soft, but definite "no".
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27 April 2013, 17:51
Fred's Avatar
Fred Fred is offline
ditch digger
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: TBD
Posts: 681
Travesty my ass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaclerk View Post
What a fucking travesty.
Travesty = so many weak books written by former Team guys
__________________
teams

Last edited by Fred; 27 April 2013 at 17:57.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27 April 2013, 17:52
Octoberfest Octoberfest is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montana
Posts: 383
Cass- I am not sure why you need to sign up to view the article. I am not a member of rhino den or ranger up or anything affiliated with that network, and I was able to click on the link and view it just fine. I have copied and pasted the article (minus some pictures) in its entirety below.

________________________________________________



There is an unquestionable chasm between the images presented by the American military as an institution and those of the individual troops on the ground. With modern social-media giving a growing voice to the proletariats of our armed forces, it appears the US Military has entered into a quiet battle between the top brass and ground troops in order to control who presents their image to the masses.

This internal conflict has correlated with the advent of tools like Facebook, Twitter, and an increasing access to the publishing industry. American troops are voicing their opinions in equally cerebral and lowbrow ways—the latter being confined to the sphere of private rants on Facebook over seemingly typical and age-old military gripes. But many of those who have tackled the establishment in larger capacities, namely in book publication or popular blogs, have faced severe repercussions from their leaders.

Gone are the days of the American war fighter being perceived as a bloodthirsty Myrmidon willing to defend public policy at all costs. What we’re now beginning to recognize is that modern American servicemembers are, the majority of the time, as socially diverse and politically involved as their peers in the private sector.

090331-N-1810F-049So begins the troubling story of former Navy SEAL Carlton Higbie and his role in a legal battle that stemmed from a 173 page personal manuscript that he released last year.

Every aspect of Higbie’s ordeal leading up to and shortly following the publication of his book, Battle on the Homefront: A Navy SEAL’s Mission to Save the American Dream, appears to be—at times—as maddening as the current conflict he has become embroiled in.

“I put this in a book not to bash the military, but to improve the system,” Higbie, who currently resides in Virginia Beach, VA, told me during a phone interview. “If I’m going to put my life on the line for my country, I want to make sure things are right across the board.”

In the spring of 2004, after walking away from an athletic scholarship at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, CT during his sophomore year, Higbie enlisted in the Navy with an immediate goal to serve as a SEAL. From there he served the majority of his eight and a half year enlistment with SEAL Team 10. He left the Navy—shortly after his book’s release—with the rank of Petty Officer First Class after two combat deployments to Iraq, where he was awarded a Joint Service Commendation Medal with a Valor distinguishing device among numerous other decorations.

His opening chapter is a brief autobiographical account of his well-to-do upbringing in Greenwich, CT and how he often butted heads with authority figures who were, according to him, “the definition of wimpy progressives and liberals.” The former high school and collegiate wrestling standout went on to write that he “would not adhere to the preppy ways of tennis, golf, and popped-collar polo shirt cliques.”

The main text itself is a compilation of his personal opinions regarding numerous matters both facing the American military and people as a whole. These short sections cover everything from his views on America’s founding principles to the often dangerous consequences of military bureaucracy—with a significant allotment of commentary on social controversies and President Obama within the eleven chapter book, ending with a chapter dedicated to his proposed solutions.

The subsequent release of his book in early April of 2012—which didn’t violate any operational security and was clearly stated in the opening pages that it’s not an official stance by the Department of the Navy or the Department of Defense—set forth a chain of events in which Carl Higbie was forced out of the Navy under suspicious conditions, lost his security clearance and, under more egregious circumstances, had his honorable discharge downgraded shortly after his separation from the Navy from a commander he never met. This particular injection, according to Higbie and his lawyer, Guy Reschenthaler, may possibly be the first known case where the United States Navy reduced a sailor’s character of service after his honorable separation.

Here’s how the events transpired.

In September of 2009, Carl Higbie, who was serving on his second deployment as a Special Operations Petty Officer Second Class in SEAL Team 10, was involved with the secret mission that captured Iraq’s most-wanted terrorist, Ahmed Hashim Abed—the mastermind of the 2004 Fallujah bridge hanging which resulted in the death and mutilation of four Blackwater USA contractors and was, for all intents and purposes, one of the contributing factors to the increase in sectarian violence throughout Iraq.

After his capture, Abed falsely accused the SEALs of physically abusing him immediately after his detention, an unsubstantiated allegation. Three of the SEALs ended up getting charged and going to court martial. Higbie, having been a part of the mission, served as a defense witness during one of the trials. All three SEALs were eventually acquitted, despite intense pressure by top military brass to convict.

IMG_0061It was during this time that Carl Higbie met his current lawyer, Guy Reschenthaler, who at the time was a lieutenant JAG lawyer representing one of the accused. The two formed a quick friendship based off mutual political leanings and their disenfranchisement with the Navy’s treatment of its personnel in areas of conflict.

As the trials for the accused SEALs were underway in the Spring of 2010, Higbie—whose mounting frustration with the trial was compounded with the loss of a teammate who he felt died because of the restrictive rules of engagement set by SEAL leadership—exercised his First Amendment rights and began writing the manuscript for the aforementioned book. After its completion in April of 2010, Higbie notified his chain-of-command that he would be publishing the book. According to him, they “laughed it off.”

For the next two years, Carl Higbie’s chain-of-command had a sufficient amount of opportunity to read his manuscript before its publication and address any concerns they may have had. Furthermore, Higbie took personal initiative and ran the manuscript through a gauntlet of non-SEAL JAG lawyers and senior Naval Criminal Investigative Service officials to ensure that his writing did not violate any operational security or other Dept. of Defense regulations. All of them, according to him, gave their unofficial clearance, but continued to instruct him to go through his command. Still, his superiors and SEAL JAG officers refused to look at the text.

“He continually tried to have the public affairs officer look at it,” Guy Reschenthaler, who is currently out of the Navy and practicing law privately, told me. “They were icing the book. The Navy went out of their way to make sure his First Amendment rights weren’t being upheld.”

In September of 2011, roughly a year and a half after he completed the manuscript and notified his command of his intentions, Carl Higbie released his manuscript for publication after repeatedly telling his superiors that he was going to release the book which, again, was within his First Amendment rights both as a citizen and member of the United States Military.

In early April of 2012, two years after he completed his manuscript, Battle on the Homefront was published by Ameriman, LLC based in Riverside, CT.

On the very same day of his book’s release, Higbie received a preformatted letter from his chain-of-command citing “possible ethical violations.” Soon after that, he received a Page 13 written counseling form for “potentially inappropriate political speech.” Nevertheless, there was no non-judicial punishment brought against him. His record, minus the new Page 13, had been spotless throughout his career.

It was at this junction that Carl Higbie, who by then was serving as an instructor for air operations for all SEAL teams in Little Creek, VA, began receiving what he claims was systematic, unjust harassment from his superiors.

This alleged persecution came mostly in the form of receiving counseling chits for uniform violations—which he had never received before in his eight year career. These ranged from minor uniform violations to potentially treasonous behavior. The most notable case included an incident where a superior officer, who was wearing gym attire, wrote Carl up for showing up to work in gym attire. Moreover, his command began to assign him menial tasks that wouldn’t have otherwise been given to SEALs of his rank and experience.

Soon after that, an independent review from a reserve naval officer, Commander Grant Staats, recommended that Carl Higbie’s security clearance be removed along with his removal from the SEAL community.

After Staats’ recommendation, the situation culminated with Carl Higbie having to attend a Trident Review Board made up of high-ranking SEALs and Navy personnel. On this board, which was to determine his future eligibility as a SEAL, he claims that he was castigated by numerous sailors who had previously told him, during personal conversations, that they agreed with his stances.

Additionally, Carl entered the board with over seventy letters of character recommendation from peers and senior members of the Special Operations community.

A notable excerpt reads (for the sake of OpSec, names have been redacted):

"I have served in the United States Navy for 17 and half years as a member of the SEAL community, I have completed 13 deployments throughout my career and I feel that I am very capable of recognizing effective leaders and outstanding operators for our armed forces. I can say without a doubt that it would be a devastating blow to our community if SO1 Higbie is not permitted to continue to share his wealth of knowledge and experience as a SEAL operator with his current rank and qualifications."

Another from a Lieutenant Commander in the community reads:

"The quality of his work and desire to learn his job were only indicators of the person he is and what drives him. It was always clear to me that what motivated him was not self, but something much greater. His belief in our country and our mission stood out among dedicated warriors who were willing to put their lives on the line without hesitation. I’m sure that I am not alone when I say SO1 Higbie would be one of the first SEALs that I would pick to serve with.

In summary, I highly recommend SO1 be absolved of all charges against him and that he be allowed to continue to serve his country in the dedicated and faithful manner he has to date. He will continue be a highly valuable asset to any unit he serves with."

“The decision was made before I set foot in there,” Carl tells me. “This came from way higher than the people on that board.”

Higbie told me that during his board he openly fought back.

“I know some of you,” he claims to have said. “We sat around campfires in Iraq bitching about this stuff [the contents in the book].”

“It makes the military look bad,” one board member allegedly said.

Carl Higbie was stripped of his Naval Special Warfare Trident after the board convened—dropping him of his status as a Navy SEAL.

The Navy’s next step was to give Higbie a captain’s mast—a non-judicial punishment that would have further disgraced his reputation. There was one kicker, though: the Navy knew that if they brought him to a captain’s mast, Carl would surely be requesting a court-martial and, according to Carl, “They weren’t going to take me on in a court-martial because they knew I’d win in a fair trial.”

In a behind-closed-doors meeting shortly after his Trident Board, Higbie was brought in by leadership and told he could “get out peacefully” if he signed a DD-214 separation document. Worn from the destruction of his name and legal battles, along with the fact that he was a few months from his natural release date from the Navy, Carl signed the document on July 8, 2012. In Block 24 of the document, under “CHARACTER OF SERVICE,” it clearly reads, “HONORABLE.” Block 28 gives his reason for separation under “REDUCTION IN FORCE.” Higbie acknowledged and signed for his Honorable Discharge in Block 21a.

“I wouldn’t have signed if it didn’t say ‘Honorable,’” he says.

After eight and a half years serving with distinction in one of America’s most elite military units, Carl Higbie was a civilian again.

“He was a SEAL’s SEAL,” his current representation and friend, Guy Reschenthaler, tells me. “There were a lot of people who came out in support of him and, from what I understand, some of their careers suffered because of it.”



The events that transpired around Higbie’s discharge could arguably derive from a growing push within the Navy to construct and control their own image. With a growing number of SEALs publishing books, consulting for video games and films, and speaking with the media, top brass has taken increasingly harsh measures to combat these private endeavors. But while the brass has hampered individual activities within its lower ranks, they’ve simultaneously indulged in their own ventures—most notably the 2012 film Act of Valor, which was released shortly before Higbie’s discharge.

What separates Act of Valor from every other film in American cinematic history was the overwhelming control the Department of Defense had on the script, production, and release. It was, as Huffington Post writer Jordan Zakarin stated, “born not in Hollywood, but the Pentagon.”

AoV’s production came at a time when the SEAL community was making a drastic transition in numbers. There had been a call in Washington DC—which trickled down to the Navy command—to increase the amount of active-duty SEALs and, as a result, their answer was the creation of a feature length, cinematic recruiting commercial.

New York Times writer John Anderson elaborated in his February 17, 2012 articles titled, “On Active Duty For The Movies (Real Ammo).”

Rear Adm. Denny Moynihan, of the Navy Office of Information in Washington, explained that every four years the Defense Department “looks at itself and says, ‘What is it that you need to be moving forward, and where do you think you are?’ ” He added, “For the Navy and the SEAL community it was, ‘Hey, you need 500 more SEALs’ and that launched a series of initiatives to try to attract more people. This film was one of those initiatives.”

One of the Act of Valor stars was a real life SEAL, Lt. Cmdr. Rorke Denver, who wrote his own book, Damn Few: Making the Modern SEAL Warrior, in which he wrote about this push by Navy leadership.

…”We want more SEALs. You will get us more SEALS.” There was also an addendum to that, unstated but perfectly clear: “And if you won’t, we will find new leaders who will.”

…That spurred one of the greatest silent and under-the-radar wars in our community’s history. On one side were the senior commanders who were charged with creating more SEALs. Their superiors wanted it. So did the politicians in Washington. On the other side was, basically, the rest of the force junior to them. Without question, all the instructors were dead set against lowering the standards in any way that would get more guys to graduate….

“A lot of us in NSW [Navy Special Warfare] were really angry about our tactics and procedures being exposed in that movie,” Higbie tells me. “A lot of our insert/extract capabilities were shown, things that were fairly secretive before.”

We must ask an honest question: Is there a certain degree of hypocrisy in the Navy’s push to censor its lower ranking personnel while concurrently working on their own media projects with questionable releases of OpSec?



The story should be over at this point. This should be nothing more than a cautionary tale about a citizen-warrior utilizing the very rights he was not only sworn to uphold, but upheld in some of the most dangerous and secret missions one could ask of a servicemember. Carl Higbie took on Big Navy over a book that he had given them ample warning about… and lost.

What transpired after his separation is where things become patently outrageous.

Shortly after his separation, in early August, Carl went on Fox and Friends for two days to promote his book, discuss certain issues regarding the President and senior military leadership, and to talk about the upcoming election. Again, Carl Higbie was a civilian at this point and was not legally constrained by any aspects of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Like any citizen, he had free reign to voice his opinion.

In early September of 2012, as Higbie was settled into his new life with a successful tree removal company in Virginia Beach, VA, he received a letter from the Department of the Navy that was dated August 28, 2012.

In this letter, he was informed that the “Honorable” discharge listed in his previous DD-214 had been due to a administrative error and that his character of service had been downgraded to a “General” in an amended DD-215 document.

This downgraded characterization of service can impinge on the quality of Carl Higbie’s life for many different reasons. Aside from the troubling reality that it can exclude him from many well-paying and coveted jobs offered to men of his experience, it also affects his access to his Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits—something he needs to rely on due to the fact he interrupted his collegiate wrestling scholarship to serve his country in a time of war.

The letter was signed by a Captain W.F. Denton—who had taken over for Carl’s previous commander after Carl was separated under honorable conditions. Higbie had never met or served under Captain Denton, yet this man was changing the nature of his discharge after he had signed it in person.

Furthermore, the amended discharge was dated August 10, 2012—four days after Higbie’s last appearance on Fox and Friends where he spoke candidly about his views on the President and other controversial issues. And again, he was doing this as a normal citizen, not as an active-duty sailor.

Captain Denton, in his notarized letter, cites the reason for Carl’s downgrade in Paragraph 3:

[picture]

That NAVPERS 1070/13 was in reference to Higbie’s previous Page 13 for “potentially inappropriate political speech.” What’s troubling is that the minor charge was not an issue and was not brought up when Higbie signed his Honorable Discharge under the guise of Reduction in Force policies.

Higbie’s chain-of-command were all fully aware that he was willfully signing the document under the acknowledgment, as plainly stated in his DD-214, that he would be receiving an Honorable Discharge.

Guy Reschenthaler quickly sent off a response letter to Captain Denton asking him to reconsider the clearly unmerited change of Higbie’s discharge.

One excerpt reads:

[picture]

He continues:

[picture]

Reschenthaler, in a memo to the media dated April 8, 2013, lays out a concrete explanation as to why the Navy’s change in Higbie’s discharge is contrary to its policy:

The characterization violates a Bureau of Personnel Instruction (BUPERSINST 1900.8C) which states that the “character of service must be appropriate and consistent with the reason and authority for separation.” As Higbie separated under “Force Shaping,” meaning that he left voluntarily due to overstaffing, he should not have been given a general discharge. A general discharge is typically reserved for involuntary separations where the servicemember has done something below standards to warrant separation. In short, a general characterization is inconsistent with “Force Shaping.”

Me at the crossed sordsWhat we’re possibly witnessing is a concerted effort by members of the Unites States Navy to slander the reputation of one of its own. And it is clearly evident to me that their efforts to inhibit Higbie’s post-service professional and educational prospects are purely retaliatory in nature.

I must state, in full disclosure, that my personal opinions do not necessarily coincide with or reflect those of Carl Higbie. I don’t have to agree with him. But what bothers me about this case is the Navy’s plain disregard for his First Amendment rights during the events leading up to the book’s publishing. They had every opportunity to review his manuscript beforehand, but instead opted to send him through a cyclone of bureaucratic red tape in an attempt to wear him out.

In addition, the most obvious wrongdoing on the Navy’s part has been their apparent drive to penalize him after his honorable service—a service that was both honorable through conduct and, more pertinently, legal documentation.

“I’m personally offended by what has happened to Carl,” Reschenthaler says. “Senior leadership doesn’t support Carl, but I think he’s a hero to a lot of the younger officers and enlisted personnel.”

Carl Higbie’s take on the matter is similar to certain arguments in his book about military bureaucracy.

“This is another example of military senior leadership doing what’s best for their career over their country.”

It’s difficult to establish the fine line between the American warrior’s duty to uphold the ideals of our nation and when he or she rightfully feels the need to speak out against it. We do know, however, that the enduring tug-of-war between trigger puller and policy enforcer will continue as long as discourse is alive and healthy in this country. But who sets the standard… and how far can they go to punish those who preserve that very speech?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27 April 2013, 18:09
Remington Raider's Avatar
Remington Raider Remington Raider is offline
True Origin Not Known
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: peanut gallery
Posts: 2,002
Basic Contract Law

I think the Big Navy is gonna lose that last one. You have the offer of an honorable discharge, acceptance of the offer, and consideration in not taking it to a CM. The whole thing is depressing.
__________________
Wolves and alligators should be cross-bred to make wolfagators that will be silent and fast, and we'll never have to hear from those people, they will just be wolfagator shit.
-Eltrane

Are you fucking serious? That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all week...and I'm at a senior staff planning conference, so, the bar has been set pretty high. You should be proud. - Gavin
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27 April 2013, 18:20
MakoZeroSix's Avatar
MakoZeroSix MakoZeroSix is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 7,877
Quote:
would not adhere to the preppy ways of tennis, golf, and popped-collar polo shirt cliques.”
Well, as long as he's not with a "popped-collar polo shirt clique", then I guess he's alright with me. Because I hate those guys. Especially if they wear numerous polo shirts on top of one another, and proceed to pop all of the collars. That really gets my goat.
__________________
Quote:
there’s nothing in our country anymore that seems to suggest that selfless service to the nation is not only appropriate, but required.”
- General John F. Kelley
19 Oct 2017
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27 April 2013, 18:32
Matchanu's Avatar
Matchanu Matchanu is offline
Creepy ass cracka
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Isle of misfit toys
Posts: 12,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
Travesty = so many weak books written by former Team guys
X2.

I could give a rats ass about the rest of this.
__________________
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy,
Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 27 April 2013, 19:00
Cass's Avatar
Cass Cass is offline
Valhalla July 4, 2016 RIP Frogman
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Valhalla
Posts: 5,932
Octoberfest. Many thanks for posting the article on Higbie. It was my fault I could not get into rhinoden. My bad viewing of membership sign-up square.
.......................

I read every word of the rhino write up on Higbie. What he did was create and live his own nightmare. He swam upstream when all the signs said don't do this. To me Higbie was perhaps an excellent athelete with determination whom became a SEAL. But his attitude destroyed all he worked for. To me he was a closet hippie who was going to show the authoritive machine he could not be told to lay down. When he arose he found out there are people and authoritives bigger than he. He just did not know Navy or how hierarchy can work.
..................

It has been years since I knew Navy, but for those that may question. A page 13 (in my day) in a Personnel Record is a "catch all" page for any remarks or entries approved by senior personnel that apply to the service of the individual Naval Enlisted Member.
.............................
Carlson Milo Higbie, BUDS Class 253, April 2005.
......................
There is perhaps one thing I do not understand about NSW Security. There must be a current form of some nature that the members sign when placed in SEAL assignments, new programs, covert ops, and assignment to other than general SEAL Ops.

I know I had to sign many (17 to be exact) during my Government service that bound me to secrecy or a trip to Court. These were iron clad and backed by a General Counsel of the Agency. Several of my friends were assigned as Case Officers chasing down suspect authors, and when the writings were finally surfaced there were many omissions and editings.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 27 April 2013, 19:18
The Fat Guy's Avatar
The Fat Guy The Fat Guy is offline
The Sagacious One
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pushing string down the hall
Posts: 13,809
This guy's plight is rife with "Oh woe is me".

First, as a service member (yes, even SEALs) have no 1st amendment rightwhen it comes to denigrating the chain of command including POTUS.

NEXT, no one can make you sign a Dd 214. Even if you do not sign it, it is still valid with a service member not available for signature annotation.

Lastly, shit is fucked up. It always has been and always will be. The Officer corps is self serving. Get over it. If you do not like it, become one and tell your peers they are fucked up. That's what I did. While guys like Cleveland made General without passing a tape test, I slipped slowly under the radar.

Another weak ass book. No matter how "special" you think you are, everyone has to follow the rules. Period.
__________________
No one will take better care of us, than us: Suicide Hotline: 1-800-273-8255

Last edited by The Fat Guy; 27 April 2013 at 19:23.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27 April 2013, 19:19
MikeC2W's Avatar
MikeC2W MikeC2W is offline
Cry havoc
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ciudad Juarez
Posts: 12,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoZeroSix View Post
Well, as long as he's not with a "popped-collar polo shirt clique", then I guess he's alright with me. Because I hate those guys. Especially if they wear numerous polo shirts on top of one another, and proceed to pop all of the collars. That really gets my goat.
AHAHAHAHAHA I skimmed it up till that point and then decided I didn't care.
__________________
Cco 1/75
RLTW


Two eyes from the east.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27 April 2013, 19:23
Purple36's Avatar
Purple36 Purple36 is offline
Swimming Upstream
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 9,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
This guy's plight is rife with "Oh woe is me".

First, as a service member (yes, even SEALs) have no 1st amendment rightwhen it comes to denigrating the chain of command including POTUS.

NEXT, no one can make you sign a Dd 214. Even if you do not sign it, it is still valid with a service member not available for signature annotation.

Lastly, shit is fucked up. It always has been and always will be. The Officer corps is self serving. Get over it. If you do not like it, become one and tell your peers they are fucked up. That's what I did. While guys like Cleveland made General without passing tape test, I slipped slowly under the radar.

Another weak ass book. No matter how "special" you think you are, everyone has to follow the rules. Period.
Hey now, give the man a break, he is after all "A Patriot trying to save the American Dream." Who can be against that?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 27 April 2013, 19:40
John6719's Avatar
John6719 John6719 is offline
?
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: MN
Posts: 1,264
The only thing that concerns me is the change AFTER the fact. Does this mean I now can't write a book or speak out about my old CoC (to include the POTUS) or possibly have my Honorable discharge changed? If this has something to do with what Cass speaks about, non-disclosure type forms, then I'll bow out completely as that is his shit he's stepping in (which is most likely the case---I hope).
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw

"OK, thankfully my wife doesn't read SOCNET -- something to do with it being filled with likeminded, immature people. Fuck her." - SOTB
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 27 April 2013, 21:00
Frog's Avatar
Frog Frog is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,580
There is obviously more to this story -only one side is presented. The CO took administrative action to drop his NEC and security clearance, something not done lightly or without a strong legal premise. The fact he was administratively discharged is most likely something Higbie agreed to.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 28 April 2013, 09:33
trident86's Avatar
trident86 trident86 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 2,361
Don't forget that he was one of the three who went to court for allegedly "punching" a detainee. Carlton seemed an alright guy, the couple of times I ran into him. He was warned not to release his book, then did it anyway. His choice, his consequences. I'm sure he'll still do fine on the outside.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 29 April 2013, 01:19
3/5Light-Fighter 3/5Light-Fighter is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 245
My only question is if his whole argument is that they pulled a "bait and switch" in regards to his DD-214, then when signed the one in front of him that read "honorable" in block 24...shouldn't it be just as easy as producing his member 4 copy for proof that his character of service was indeed honorable when he signed it?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 29 April 2013, 06:51
PinkMist's Avatar
PinkMist PinkMist is offline
Send it....
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Miami, Fl.
Posts: 311
Was he on Terminal Leave burining days that he had left in the books following him signing the DD-214? I could see the fall out from being on T.L. and then going on a news show and......
__________________
“Hit quickly, Hit hard, and keep on hitting! ~LGen Smith, 1949″
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 29 April 2013, 09:32
JAFO's Avatar
JAFO JAFO is offline
33,024 - R.I.P.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Not so "Great" Plains
Posts: 3,392
My question for SO1 Higbie is this...Why not wait until your EAOS to publish the book?

Write the manuscript. Peruse it a buhzillion times for OPSEC. PERSEC, Nick-nack-paddywack. Ask peers, JAG, etc to do the same. And release it for publication …when your contract is up.

I don't ever recall being able to exercise my 1A rights while being on active duty. Or, any other rights for that matter. It's a different set of rules for those of us serving.Yup, we all bitch about having to buff floors, paint rocks white, stand the late watch or any other daily Navy life tasks. I'm sure there's different menial tasks for SPECWAR, but they are still tasks that need to be done...whether an E1 or an O3.

As stated above, many in the officer section, and senior enlisted, have their own agendas. Most of which are self/career serving. It is what it is. The culture has to change from within or simply wait out the tour of those offending.

A little patience could have benefitted this sailor/SEAL, at the same time making him richer in the wallet. Some fish…errr…frogs swim just have upstream
__________________
"It's understanding that allows people like us to tolerate a person such as yourself." -Ferris Bueller
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 17:40.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
© SOCNET 1996-2018