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  #21  
Old 9 March 2016, 10:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davelrrp
I am 6'1"+, 210-15 lbs, and I don't see ANY way your carry combo could be possibly be carried concealed without being rather obvious. What do you wear that won't telegraph, GUN?
Lose 10b, and carry AIWB. Carry close to belt buckle (centerline, but prob just a hair to the R/L), and if necessary, cant gun grip towards centerline. "Holsterless" carry methods are likely to cause less printing than those that have actual holster bodies.

Gun carry in this manner varies from relatively fast (depending upon clothing) to slow (if canting gun grip).

The aforementioned gun above, should have zero issues on printing over a gun without the red dot, in the carry method described....
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  #22  
Old 9 March 2016, 11:40
HF0311 HF0311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
Lose 10b, and carry AIWB. Carry close to belt buckle (centerline, but prob just a hair to the R/L), and if necessary, cant gun grip towards centerline. "Holsterless" carry methods are likely to cause less printing than those that have actual holster bodies.

Gun carry in this manner varies from relatively fast (depending upon clothing) to slow (if canting gun grip).

The aforementioned gun above, should have zero issues on printing over a gun without the red dot, in the carry method described....

Yep, I don't carry a Red Dot equipped pistol, but from what I've seen of people using them and the little I've used red dot's, extra bulk to conceal is a non-issue. If your carrying IWB, for 99% of holster setup's the red dot sight itself will be right about at your belt line.

To the OP, I don't think there are any issues with the durability or reliability of the Trijicon type red dot's. I think for the most part if its mounted right then no issues on losing zero, though if I was going to mount a dot I would have the slide milled for my specific sight over buying one of the from the factory- one size fits all- milled slides, they might be fine but I wouldn't chance it on that.....For me, given my eye sight being fine and all that, there just isn't enough benefit to getting a RMR mounted pistol, but I would have faith that if I needed one that the products on the market now are trustworthy enough.
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  #23  
Old 9 March 2016, 11:52
rgrjoe175 rgrjoe175 is offline
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I have a question... which is better, amber or green dot on the dual illum?
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  #24  
Old 9 March 2016, 11:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOTB
The aforementioned gun above, should have zero issues on printing over a gun without the red dot, in the carry method described....
Should have read "with or without"....
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  #25  
Old 9 March 2016, 12:18
Akheloce Akheloce is offline
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I have one of my 1911's set of as a range toy- Herret National Match grips, comp, and Burris FF3 red dot.

I find the red dot certainly feels like I get faster acquisition, but less accuracy than my normal 10-8 sights. Also, the battery cover irritatingly comes off every few hundred rounds.

I know there are better examples out there than the Burris, but other than acquisition speed, I can't say it helps me enough to make it worth it.
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  #26  
Old 9 March 2016, 18:54
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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Amber or Green

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I have a question... which is better, amber or green dot on the dual illum?
WITHOUT question, the green!!

Good shooting
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  #27  
Old 9 March 2016, 19:28
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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Dual Illum

I have 3 RMR dual Illums on pistolas (ie 13 MOA triangles, 2 green, 1 amber).

They work GREAT (ie green works the best) when the sight has "dual" light input & the target is under the same conditions.

They don't work great, when your sight has only the tritium & your target is in a "bright" area. This can be significantly offset, if your wearing some type of eye wear that reduces the glare of the target area (ie sunglasses/shaded eye pro).

Also, if your running a light on your pistol. If your going w/"white light"..it will washout your aim point. If you go w/a green "sharpie" marker to color your light lens, you'll be able to pick-up your aim point...if you run the green:)

Good shooting
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  #28  
Old 9 March 2016, 19:57
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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rain/moisture

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What is the effect of rain/moisture? Does it wash out like this?
...can you spell "Rain X"?

Good shooting
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  #29  
Old 9 March 2016, 20:43
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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RMR

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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockcqc View Post
I frequently carry a G20C w/an RMR & a Streamlight TLR-1.

RMR durability: I have not broken it yet; nor, have I had any zero creep. I've been carrying it for about 2 years. My concealment clothes seem to be wearing the paint off the right side corners of the sight; but, that's it

Good shooting

Good to see someone in my AO.

I do, however have a question. I am 6'1"+, 210-15 lbs, and I don't see ANY way your carry combo could be possibly be carried concealed without being rather obvious. What do you wear that won't telegraph, GUN?
Ah, now your asking me how a watch works. For now, let's just keep an eye on the time:)

Good shooting
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  #30  
Old 9 March 2016, 21:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davelrrp View Post
Good to see someone in my AO.

I do, however have a question. I am 6'1"+, 210-15 lbs, and I don't see ANY way your carry combo could be possibly be carried concealed without being rather obvious. What do you wear that won't telegraph, GUN?

In my mind from making several holsters with RMR's mounted, I'd have to ask, What are you wearing in the holster dept.? The RMR isn't wider than the slide. . .so?

No doubt AWIB, or OAIWB with/without cant can be easy-ish to conceal. Of course if you have a poodle on your lap (read fat) that ain't gonna fly.

A close fitting pancake can do an admirable job too.
Adding cant to the gun especially if worn on the hip 3 or 4 o'clock, 8 or 9 o'clock for lefties, will help hide it!
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  #31  
Old 11 March 2016, 02:11
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I personally am a big fan of "red-Dots" on pistols. Although a laser integrated into your light might have the exact same effect for those with diminishing eyesight.

Earlier in the post someone had mentioned using a green dot over a red one. I am also a fan of this and here is why (cross thread to medical if need be).

You guys remember from biology 101 that the eye has two light sensitive cells. These are Rods and Cones. Rods are effectively "black and white" and your Cones are full color HDTV. The other aspect of this is that the location of the Cones is centrally located on the retina. There are effectively no Cones located outside of the center. The Rods to allow for some night vision, which is why Common Task Manual / SH 21-76 stated to do night scanning by looking off center.

When you look at Rod sensitivity, though, Green wavelengths produce nearly double the sensitivity the Red Wavelengths - and nearly quadruple the Blue wavelengths.

What that means is that in low-light situations when the Cones are unable to produce a precise color image, your Rods will be able to pick out Green things (with a slightly loose definition of 'Green') more than other colors.

This might be why NVG's use Green, since they increase the Intensity of the light to our Rods. There are IIRC a 3 to 1 ratio for Green Cones in your eye as apposed to Red or Blue. So IMO use Blue colors if you don't want it to be seen and use Green when you want to see it.
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  #32  
Old 11 March 2016, 08:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockcqc View Post
I have 3 RMR dual Illums on pistolas (ie 13 MOA triangles, 2 green, 1 amber).

They work GREAT (ie green works the best) when the sight has "dual" light input & the target is under the same conditions.

They don't work great, when your sight has only the tritium & your target is in a "bright" area. This can be significantly offset, if your wearing some type of eye wear that reduces the glare of the target area (ie sunglasses/shaded eye pro).

Also, if your running a light on your pistol. If your going w/"white light"..it will washout your aim point. If you go w/a green "sharpie" marker to color your light lens, you'll be able to pick-up your aim point...if you run the green:)

Good shooting
I see the value of the triangles in a 10mm and that was my first choice. The entire shape to 25 m and the tip of the triangle beyond. The green works well, day (fiber) and night (Tritium). The electronic image causes a sparkle due to my astigmatism. More expensive, but IMHO, a much better sight.
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  #33  
Old 11 March 2016, 08:44
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
What is the effect of rain/moisture? Does it wash out like this?
Good question, I dont know. Since its not a "Light" that is beamed up to the reticle.. OK, so I put a spattering of water on each side of the lens, while the water makes for a distorted view through the lens. Water right over the dot distorts the shape a bit, but no sparkling.
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  #34  
Old 11 March 2016, 08:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
I have one of my 1911's set of as a range toy- Herret National Match grips, comp, and Burris FF3 red dot.

I find the red dot certainly feels like I get faster acquisition, but less accuracy than my normal 10-8 sights. Also, the battery cover irritatingly comes off every few hundred rounds.

I know there are better examples out there than the Burris, but other than acquisition speed, I can't say it helps me enough to make it worth it.
Another vote for the Trijicon
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  #35  
Old 11 March 2016, 15:27
Davelrrp Davelrrp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
Lose 10b, and carry AIWB. Carry close to belt buckle (centerline, but prob just a hair to the R/L), and if necessary, cant gun grip towards centerline. "Holsterless" carry methods are likely to cause less printing than those that have actual holster bodies.

Gun carry in this manner varies from relatively fast (depending upon clothing) to slow (if canting gun grip).

The aforementioned gun above, should have zero issues on printing over a gun without the red dot, in the carry method described....
Nah. I have earned that little extra.

I have had carry permits in several states continuously since 1974 in Georgia, when it was called a "Pistol Toter's Permit".

Fat guys do have an advantage........the gun just sorta gets enveloped. Know what I mean?

Seriously, I am familiar with, and have, multiple times carried in every way described. Maybe it is just me, but I can most always spot the carry position. Shirttail out 2x oversize doesn't print, but doesn't make the right fashion requirements for work.

I might be completely ignorant of the subject, but hanging a light and optic does make the size increase, and gives new requirements for snag free access on drawing that looks to me, will make concealment more problematic.
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  #36  
Old 11 March 2016, 15:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davelrrp
Seriously, I am familiar with, and have, multiple times carried in every way described. Maybe it is just me, but I can most always spot the carry position....
I agree that if you are carrying a gun on the body, chances are the concealment of same is going to always be a PITA. The better it is concealed, probably equates to the slower the access to the gun.

Still, I disagree that the red dot should add any amount of problem to hiding the gun. Where it is located should not add any bulk or snag to the carry. When I carry in hot environments, I either carry in a AWIB as described above OR in an iPad case. Both have their pros/cons, but I still don't see the red dot adding to carry woes....
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  #37  
Old 11 March 2016, 19:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davelrrp View Post
I might be completely ignorant of the subject, but hanging a light and optic does make the size increase, and gives new requirements for snag free access on drawing that looks to me, will make concealment more problematic.
Lights? I agree. Adding a light, such as the SurefireX300 to a G17 or many other FA's that come to mind is going to add complexity to a IWB carry, or even a well done OWB carry. They're Fatter and often longer too.


Optic? I still don't see that being an issue.
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Last edited by litepath; 11 March 2016 at 19:25. Reason: SIC
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  #38  
Old 11 March 2016, 20:16
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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triangle

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Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
I see the value of the triangles in a 10mm and that was my first choice. The entire shape to 25 m and the tip of the triangle beyond. The green works well, day (fiber) and night (Tritium). The electronic image causes a sparkle due to my astigmatism. More expensive, but IMHO, a much better sight.
I use the tip (ie no pun intended), as the aim point reference for all ranges.

I also have 1 of the battery operated RMRs & astigmatism:) That is what I have on my 20C.
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  #39  
Old 12 March 2016, 10:49
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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RMR

This is my G21 w/the dual Illum amber. I run a TLR2 (ie has a laser) w/this one, as the amber does not work well w/a light, green or otherwise.

This is a picture of the 185gr Barnes bullet (ie muzzle velocity 1100 fps), that I put in the neck of the below feral hog @ 15 yds. I watched a plume of clay dust come off the neck @ the hit. The hog casually trotted back into the thicket I hunt next to.

Two weeks later, we met again & as I was in less of a sporting mood, I put a 3" load of 00 heavy shot buckshot in it's head.

Interesting, that there was no .45 entry wound. It had sealed up. My skinning partner was just commenting, that I had not shot this hog w/my .45, when his knife hit the bullet. It was on the other side of the neck between the hide & fat.

Good shooting
Attached Images
File Type: jpg G21 hunting.jpg (36.6 KB, 179 views)
File Type: jpg .45 Barnes.jpg (26.4 KB, 177 views)
File Type: jpg .45 Barnes pig.jpg (23.9 KB, 173 views)
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  #40  
Old 12 March 2016, 19:17
glockcqc glockcqc is offline
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slide ride optic

I believe I have commented on this prior; but, I'll throw it out there again

When you put an optic on a pistol, w/the intention of using said weapon for defensive/offensive work. You must re-learn what you need to see & how to bring the pistol to that position from the holster, in the quickest manner.

This will initially be frustrating; though, once you learn..it becomes very fast.

I began w/the FS & RS on the pistol. But, reflecting on that, this hampered me. I was still using the irons. I removed them & re-learned what I needed to see & now I am faster than I ever was (ie w/young eyes) w/the irons.

Granted, this is not basic pistol marksmanship. This is "Beyond The Fundamentals" (ie Brian Enos forgive me..)

There you have it.

Good shooting
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