Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > The Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 20 March 2017, 18:02
Expatmedic's Avatar
Expatmedic Expatmedic is offline
Anesthetized User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,334
Brain Scans and Culpability

Well, we are on our way. This is concerning. These will muddy the legal waters like Polygraphs.

"People can commit exactly the same crime in all of its elements and circumstances, and depending on their mental states, the difference could be one would go to jail for 14 years and the other would get probation," Read Montague, a neuroscientist at Virginia Tech who led the study, said in a press release. "Predicated on which side of the boundary you are on between acting knowingly and recklessly, you can differentially be deprived of your freedom."

I can act knowingly if I whack some armed intruder, but wonder if I will be deemed reckless.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/03/...ecklessly.html
__________________
"If there is a bright center to the universe, I'm on the planet that it's farthest from".

Support SOCNET.

Last edited by Expatmedic; 20 March 2017 at 18:07. Reason: Change Content.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20 March 2017, 18:51
specwarnet specwarnet is offline
Researcher @ Large
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: USA
Posts: 400
"reckless" is fairly subjective so this would really only benefit the lawyers.
__________________
It is useless for sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion
-William Ralph Inge
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20 March 2017, 18:56
Shadow's Avatar
Shadow Shadow is offline
Problem Solver
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 3,677
This shit almost sounds like the prequel to "Minority Report" or something...
__________________
"If you force me to do violence, I shall be so savage and so cruel, and hurt you so badly that the thought of revenge shall never cross your mind" --Machiavelli

"Oderint, dum metuant" ("Let them hate, so long as they fear") - Caligula

"Those that know don't talk and those that talk don't know."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20 March 2017, 19:08
8654maine 8654maine is offline
Another pool cleaner
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
This shit almost sounds like the prequel to "Minority Report" or something...
Yup, that's my fear.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20 March 2017, 19:32
Expatmedic's Avatar
Expatmedic Expatmedic is offline
Anesthetized User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,334
Want to bet that down the road these researchers will find some kind of protein, catecholamine, neurotransmitter or "other" that tells them after the fact the persons state of mind after a violent event? I wonder who is funding the study? This is important, perhaps I missed it in the article.

Nothing good can come from this.
__________________
"If there is a bright center to the universe, I'm on the planet that it's farthest from".

Support SOCNET.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20 March 2017, 19:56
MixedLoad's Avatar
MixedLoad MixedLoad is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: CONUS
Posts: 7,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expatmedic View Post
Want to bet that down the road these researchers will find some kind of protein, catecholamine, neurotransmitter or "other" that tells them after the fact the persons state of mind after a violent event?
One would hope that science continues to evolve, or at least I do.

Quote:
I wonder who is funding the study? This is important, perhaps I missed it in the article.
From the actual study:

"We thank Frank Tong for useful discussions and all of the members from the Human Neuroimaging Lab, especially Alec Solway, Andreas Hula, and Sébastien Hétu, for helpful comments and discussion. We are also thankful for the support of the Wellcome Trust, the Kane Foundation, the Brown Foundation, and the National Institute on Drug Abuse. This study was supported by a grant from the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation to Vanderbilt University, with a subcontract to Virginia Tech. Its contents do not necessarily represent official views of either the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation or the MacArthur Foundation Research Network on Law and Neuroscience (www.lawneuro.org)."


Quote:
Nothing good can come from this.
Why?
__________________
“Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re"

"Operator much like rock and roll, is dead." - ClearedHot
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 20 March 2017, 20:01
CV's Avatar
CV CV is offline
Ungood
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: US
Posts: 7,287
I welcome unlocking the secrets of the brain. It's frightening just how little we (humans) know. Even today, it's fascinating to see how veterans with similar TBIs to mine have completely different outcomes.
__________________
It's a hipster filter. Keeps your kind out. -Jimbo


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 20 March 2017, 20:08
Expatmedic's Avatar
Expatmedic Expatmedic is offline
Anesthetized User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
Why?

My concern is seeing physicians growing involvement in the regulation of guns/gun owners. I'm stuck in CA.It stems from that.
__________________
"If there is a bright center to the universe, I'm on the planet that it's farthest from".

Support SOCNET.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 20 March 2017, 20:45
Tracker's Avatar
Tracker Tracker is offline
MSMD
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expatmedic View Post
Well, we are on our way. This is concerning. These will muddy the legal waters like Polygraphs.
Polygraph results are not generally admissible in a courtroom and there is no chance this will be either anytime in the near future.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 20 March 2017, 21:31
MixedLoad's Avatar
MixedLoad MixedLoad is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: CONUS
Posts: 7,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expatmedic View Post
My concern is seeing physicians growing involvement in the regulation of guns/gun owners. I'm stuck in CA. It stems from that.
I don't see the issue with the fact that neurologists are exploring brain activity. We have a lot to be thankful for when it comes to scientists. Anyone who doesn't believe that can partake in some world-class spirit healing.

Although it was tongue in cheek, which I get being in CA myself, I wouldn't even worry about something like that affecting our rights here. There's so much that's broken in that regard, it won't even appear on our radar.
__________________
“Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re"

"Operator much like rock and roll, is dead." - ClearedHot
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 20 March 2017, 21:32
MixedLoad's Avatar
MixedLoad MixedLoad is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: CONUS
Posts: 7,796
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracker View Post
Polygraph results are not generally admissible in a courtroom and there is no chance this will be either anytime in the near future.
Thank science for that. Polygraph examinations are a fucking joke.
__________________
“Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re"

"Operator much like rock and roll, is dead." - ClearedHot
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20 March 2017, 21:37
Expatmedic's Avatar
Expatmedic Expatmedic is offline
Anesthetized User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracker View Post
Polygraph results are not generally admissible in a courtroom and there is no chance this will be either anytime in the near future.
Yes and no. In some states, part of a Polygraph is. And they are used by LE agencies for pre-employment.

My concern is the unintended consequences of the research. I guess that is the best way I can state how I feel about this. I would love to see this research simply to help those who need it.
__________________
"If there is a bright center to the universe, I'm on the planet that it's farthest from".

Support SOCNET.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 21 March 2017, 13:38
CAVmedic CAVmedic is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: OH
Posts: 694
I've had several friends and acquaintances that I worked with doing security that have gone on to police departments say they've lied on polygraphs and passed because they didn't see what they did as bad or really care. One instance was downloading music online illegally, another was smoking weed so I guess it's all on the individual. One guy did roids and is now a sheriff.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 21 March 2017, 14:00
Tracker's Avatar
Tracker Tracker is offline
MSMD
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVmedic View Post
I've had several friends and acquaintances that I worked with doing security that have gone on to police departments say they've lied on polygraphs and passed because they didn't see what they did as bad or really care. One instance was downloading music online illegally, another was smoking weed so I guess it's all on the individual. One guy did roids and is now a sheriff.
Conversely, I have a very good friend who was turned down for a police job because of "questionable results" on his polygraph. We were in the infantry together he went on to do two more enlistments in Counter Intel with the commensurate security clearance. He tried to call the polygraph tech out on their bullshit, but they were not inclined to listen. Fortunately it turned out well and he's making a lot more money than I am doing EP work.

Like MixedLoad said, Polygraph examinations are a fucking joke.
__________________
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way.
~ Heraclitus
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 21 March 2017, 16:46
Azatty Azatty is offline
Spice Weasel
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
Although it was tongue in cheek, which I get being in CA myself, I wouldn't even worry about something like that affecting our rights here. There's so much that's broken in that regard, it won't even appear on our radar.
Coming soon to a TSA checkpoint near you...
__________________
"Bureaucracy always runs out of control and creates abuses...but without some regulations, people are just going to shit in your meat." --MakoZeroSix
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 18:06.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET