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  #41  
Old 14 November 2017, 12:46
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
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I met a lot of Navy and Marine mouth-breathers and window-lickers; like, for-real low IQ. But they did their jobs and didn't have mental illness. Mental illness is on a continuum and there are more people in the military with mental illness that hasn't been officially diagnosed than you can shake a dead chicken at. And if you diagnosed them and booted them, there would be no more Army. Navy. Whatever.

With as difficult as it is to recruit and retain, some conditions should be waverable. It's fucking ridiculous to deny because someone used an inhaler at age 14, or a kid needed an antidepressant when his deadbeat dad left the family. Every case is unique and deserves its own look.

This needs to trickle up to the body fat/PFTers, and drunks, and everyone else who gets booted when some for-real mentoring, NJP, and mast might be what they need to get on the right track.

The fucking military is bipolar (see what I did there?): let's let mental illness in, but kick out the guy for being 2% overfat for a year. They need to examine every bit of it.
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  #42  
Old 14 November 2017, 12:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
That sounds easier than it is when leaders get punished for holding their subordinates accountable, and are the subject to investigation after investigation for holding people to standards. The army has not made being a good leader a priority at all.
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Fire for effect! That is spot on, Purple!
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  #43  
Old 14 November 2017, 13:10
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Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
That sounds easier than it is when leaders get punished for holding their subordinates accountable, and are the subject to investigation after investigation for holding people to standards. The army has not made being a good leader a priority at all.
Rock and Hard place.
Very true. It is important to identify issues for what they are. The Army has major shortcomings in maintaining standards and holding leaders accountable for everything they do or fail to do. That is an issue which needs to be addressed, and is a leadership failure that is hampering everything the Army does.

Second- and third-order effects from that failure should not become the focus of the discussion, which is what is happening in this case.
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  #44  
Old 14 November 2017, 14:04
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Second- and third-order effects from that failure should not become the focus of the discussion, which is what is happening in this case.
Quite true. You can't cure the disease by treating the symptoms.
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  #45  
Old 14 November 2017, 14:32
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Army Regulation 40-501, Standards of Medical Fitness, is more than just a simple policy but like everything else in the military, there is a formal waiver process that allows you to skip the more inconvenient parts. In this case, it is just like Gavin has detailed - the Army has done nothing more than delegate the authority down to a lower level.

The over-dramatization is from the press corps suggesting that the Army has somehow reversed some sacred, long-standing policy. Behavioral problems may be waived under specific conditions. On the downside, bipolar and psychotic disorders are disqualifying conditions for deployments. So, downplay your condition, join the Army with your problems, and THEN seek medical attention without the threat of having to deploy and even THAT can be overlooked depending on the unit commander. Same as it ever was.

Excerpted from the December 2016 edition on 40-501:

Soldiers with a psychiatric disorder in remission or whose residual symptoms do not impair duty performance may be considered for deployment duties. The commander makes the ultimate decision to deploy after consulting with the treating physician or other privileged provider.


No bans have been lifted - the Army just delegated approval to a lower level. It just makes the SJW crowd feel good when they can make it look like they have won another victory against the evil, patriarchal, male dominated military industrial complex.
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  #46  
Old 14 November 2017, 15:18
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I imagine it gets pretty easy to develop a case of "what the fuck is even the point" when you have literal traitors being lauded by a commander in chief, others having their sentences commuted because they're a mentally ill tranny freak, while simultaneously that same system adjudicates honorable men for stopping blatant child-rape and fails to stop communists and other left wing radicals from apparently running roughshod over the Mil academic community with complete impunity. And don't even get me started on the troop demoralization regarding the women and gays in combat roles......

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  #47  
Old 14 November 2017, 15:44
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I didn't know people took the ban seriously to start with...on much of anything. Pretty sure any history of asthma and ADD/ADHD were both banned, right? I had childhood asthma (cleared up around the time I turned 7...go figure) and a childhood ADD diagnosis. I just never told the recruiter. It seemed a lot simpler than getting a waiver.
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  #48  
Old 14 November 2017, 15:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOFH View Post
I didn't know people took the ban seriously to start with...on much of anything. Pretty sure any history of asthma and ADD/ADHD were both banned, right? I had childhood asthma (cleared up around the time I turned 7...go figure) and a childhood ADD diagnosis. I just never told the recruiter. It seemed a lot simpler than getting a waiver.
I don't think it's necessarily those types of medical diagnosis that people have issue with as much as those concerning "cutting" and things of that nature. Cutting, Bi-Polar, etc...are the buzzwords that certainly catch one's attention and get their message across - as it did with me. JMO....

Last edited by Agoge; 14 November 2017 at 15:54.
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  #49  
Old 14 November 2017, 15:53
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there.was.no.ban.
The Army regulation has always provided a waiver process for most of the medical conditions being discussed. ADD/ADHD in the absence of academic impact and no drug intervention in the last 12 months is treated as though there is no condition.

there.was.no.ban.
no ban
at all

smoke and mirrors to make it look newsworthy
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Last edited by Box; 14 November 2017 at 16:01.
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  #50  
Old 14 November 2017, 16:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box View Post
ADD/ADHD in the absence of academic impact and no drug intervention in the last 12 months is treated as though there is no condition.
So is with meds not now waiverable?

Last edited by ramzmedic; 14 November 2017 at 16:15.
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  #51  
Old 14 November 2017, 16:17
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AR 40-501 is a searchable PDF available all over around the interwebz
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