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  #121  
Old 19 December 2017, 15:30
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Purple36 Purple36 is offline
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Originally Posted by wowzers View Post
Purple36, what is your issue with with pits when I can do a search for German Shepard attacks and get all kind of horrifying hits like? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...cked-dogs.html
I have two searches set on Google. Dog attacks and Pit attacks...Pits account for more and more serious..and the CDC's tracking show the same. I didn't know a Pit from a Bull dog until my neighbor got attacked...I am now very cautious and carry pepper gel when I walk my dog...as I don't want to end up a statistic on the CDC .
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  #122  
Old 19 December 2017, 15:34
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Originally Posted by wowzers View Post
Colleen is full of shit...

http://www.insuranceowl.org/bslnews/the-real-dog-bite-statistics-plus-media-myths-colleen-lynn-exposed/

http://socnet.com/showthread.php?t=123174&highlight=pit+bull&page=3
I was interested in DogBites.org as well, so I decided to see where they got their information from...they were from local news articles of attacks....so if she's full of shit, the local news organizations are as well.
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  #123  
Old 19 December 2017, 15:35
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Originally Posted by Ferryman View Post
A gun isn't going to dig a hole under your fence and then go attack some random person. A gun isn't going to just bust loose from its holster and attack the neighbors glock. A gun isn't going to rip out your toddlers throat if he gets too close to the food bowl.

A gun is a tool. A dog is an animal with a brain, emotions, and cunning. You can't seriously put guns and dogs in the same argument.
No shit, right?
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  #124  
Old 19 December 2017, 15:39
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Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
Well, shit....11 deaths out of hundreds of thousands of dogs?

We definitely need to get rid of them all.

This thread is based off of emotions very similar to the geniuses who think we need to get rid of sharks.
Emotions...after seeing reports of someone torn to pieces...yeah, you are right there. After seeing my neighbor still trying to recover, yep...emotion..sharks and Pitbulls...not the same argument at all. Never saw a shark swimming down my street, although that would be kinda cool.
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  #125  
Old 19 December 2017, 15:42
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hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
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At my day job it's not too unusual to fly a 10 or 11 day trip with someone you just met 30 minutes before being locked in a cockpit with them for eight hours. There are a few subjects you kind of avoid on day one until you get to know them a little better. This is one of them
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  #126  
Old 19 December 2017, 15:43
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I would say that there needs to be a licensing process to own any sort of pet, but then I drive and notice all the people that have licenses and I realize that licensing would not help the problem.

If you neglect your animals and they eat you... sounds like justice. I've met a hell of a lot more people that would be more useful as ballistic gel than I have dogs. People that mistreat animals deserve a special place in hell and since I'm agnostic, I'll settle for them dying a horrible death.

Since some of you don't like the Pits vs. guns analogy, how about Pits vs. bad cops. Ban all cops? What about sharks? Ban them? They attack about the same number of people as Pits per year. Look at the number of animals out there vs. the number biting people. A fraction of a percent? Get rid of CCW permits since some of them illegally use their guns. No CCWs for people.

I am well aware of what the breed was created for, but if you raise them right, to include proper socialization (people, cats, and other dogs) from early on and then THROUGHOUT their life, and do not neglect them, then there won't be any issues.

I am not sure that I could make my Pit/Lab mix hurt someone without abusing him first.
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  #127  
Old 19 December 2017, 15:47
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From this past week:



Pit bulls on the loose after killing 2 mini-ponies, horse
Jennifer Baker, Fox 19 Published 11:28 a.m. ET Dec. 18, 2017 | Updated 7:40 p.m. ET Dec. 18, 2017

ST. CLAIR TOWNSHIP, OH (FOX19) – Authorities confirmed Monday they are searching for two pit bulls on the loose in Butler County after the dogs killed two mini-horses and an adult horse.

Three pit bulls attacked the ponies, named Bella and Pablo, and an adult horse in the 1900 block of West Elkton Road in St. Clair Township on Friday, confirmed Deputy Kurt Merbs, supervisor of the Butler County Sheriff's Office Dog Warden Unit.

One of the mini-ponies' owners, Mike Powell, shot and killed one of the pit bulls after it killed one of the mini-ponies, Bella, and was eating it, Merbs confirmed.

"The dog was almost on top of the deceased horse," Merbs said. "You have the right to protect yourself and your livestock. You don't have the right to shoot them for trespassing, but you can shoot to protect."

The adult horse was in such bad shape, it was euthanized by a veterinarian on Saturday, said Paul Huesing, Powell's cousin and the other owner of the mini-ponies.

The two surviving pit bulls ran off and remain at large, Merbs said.

He is working Monday to track them down - and their owner.

He said he went to a possible location for the dogs at a residence along Sipps Lane on Friday, but no one was home. He left a note asking the occupants to call.

"We are following up today. We left notice and, of course, got no phone call, so we are going back today on this. If we get any of the normal games we get out of this 'oh they are not my dogs' we will take custody of the two dogs," Merbs said.

Huesing is upset and vowed Monday to take matters into his own hands.

"I am going hunting today," he said. "I am going to go out in the field. I have a CCW (license to carry a concealed weapon), so I am always armed. There's 20 people within this quarter mile radius. There are small children. It could have been them."

Huesing broke down in tears Monday as he talked about the violent way he lost his mini-ponies.

"They're irreplaceable. They are family members," he said. "It tore my heart out. I'll never be the same."

He said they were the last of his horses.

Bella was 8 years old and just 28 inches tall.

Pablo was 6 years old and about 31 inches tall.

"There's a special bond with a person and a horse You have them 30 years and it just tore my heart out to have to go through this," he said, crying.

"I don't want nobody to be hurt."

Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones is sympathetic to Huesling's loss and said he would be upset, too.

The sheriff said he is not a fan of pit bulls, but acknowledges residents who live in unincorporated areas of the county are permitted to have them. The animals must be licensed like all other dogs, however, he notes.

"We tell people to let us know when they see them running around loose Call the dog catcher or your local police. Don't try to catch them yourself."



And then there is this horror out of Houston:


A 4-year-old Texas boy who reportedly survived a near-debilitating dog attack is recovering thanks to doctors at Texas Children’s Hospital in Houston, according to a profile in People Magazine.


As the boy recovers, his parents are warning others about the dangers posed by family dogs:

His family says Zion Alexander and his cousin tossed a ball outside their aunt’s house in Liberty, Texas, on December 8th when five dogs attacked.



According to the cousin, the aunt’s pitbull first attacked the little boy, and her other dogs soon followed, tearing into the child.

“The dogs are eating Zion!” the child shouted to their parents, according to an interview with People.

Investigators say the boy’s father Trevion Alexander saved his son’s life, after he broke up the dog fight; as the dog’s also bit at him, Alexander said he pulled his son free.


“When I saw Zion freed, I picked him up and ran into the house,”his mother Tiffany McHan said in an interview with PEOPLE. “There was blood everywhere. I didn’t think he was gonna make it. I remember him telling me, ‘Mommy, I’m okay. I’m okay.’”

Despite the boy’s assurances, his parents soon learned the extent of his injuries.

“His ears were all bitten up. His ears weren’t even attached,” McHan said in an interview. “We noticed he wasn’t moving the right side of his face. During surgery, they found out that the nerve that operates the side of his face was shredded.”


Doctors at Texas Children’s Hospital, which is ranked 4th in the nation for pediatric care, confirmed Zion suffered a fractured skull, internal damages to the right side of his head, injured ears and numerous lacerations.

Since one of the dogs bit through the boy’s ear canal, his family says he may not hear well even after he has recovered.


Although the parents say they do not blame the aunt, who is said to be very upset over Zion’s injuries, they are questioning her decision to keep the dog’s at her home, which she reportedly continued to do in the days after the incident.

This is reportedly the second tragedy to touch the family this year after they lost their home to Harvey.

If you’d like to donate to Zion’s recovery, you can donate to the family’s Go Fund Me page, funds for which are reportedly going toward medical expenses.
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  #128  
Old 19 December 2017, 16:43
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is online now
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Nature vs Nurture. Pit Bulls have it in their DNA to be ruthless attack dogs bred for violence. People saying that it's the owner not the dog are simply using emotional "evidence" and are not being honest with themselves regarding the overwhelming evidence as to what the breed is. The "Bell Curve" concept applies here as it does other places we talk about genetic pre-dispositions. Dogs are no different. Anyone trying to suggest otherwise is ignoring absolutely overwhelming evidence that points explicitly to the contrary. All because "I know this one dog that is nice and sweet and has never hurt a fly".

I understand why it's done. Each dog IS uniquely different with it's own distinct personality. I think we can all agree on that. However, to the extent to which the personality overrides the underlying inherent nature of the breed is a dynamic arrangement. It is not a 'love pit bull XX amount and you'll overcome any violent nature'. Some individuals have an overwhelming sense of this violent nature. Some have less so. Hence the "bell curve".

That being said, the statistics clearly show that the Pit Bull breed, as it is today, has an innate nature that produces relatively few individuals possessing the potential to overcome their instincts to attack and kill other creatures in a non-survival scenario. Some cannot overcome their nature no matter how much love and affection you give it. This is a huge problem.
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  #129  
Old 19 December 2017, 16:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
Emotions...after seeing reports of someone torn to pieces...yeah, you are right there. After seeing my neighbor still trying to recover, yep...emotion..sharks and Pitbulls...not the same argument at all. Never saw a shark swimming down my street, although that would be kinda cool.
Like this guy?

http://www.imdb.com/videoplayer/vi3999373593
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  #130  
Old 19 December 2017, 17:00
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
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Maybe thats why my two pitbulls were okay - either they managed to overrule their killer nature by their personality or I managed to dominate them enough for them to put a cap on the whole 'i'm a murder machine' schtick.

Thats why I wrote about frail women - many dogs require to feel physical strength and willpower of the owner to recognize him as the leader.

I knew a mastiff that had to be put down because no matter what was tried on it it would not listen and behave, and this inability to behave almost led to it killing a girl.
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  #131  
Old 19 December 2017, 17:00
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Nature vs Nurture. Pit Bulls have it in their DNA to be ruthless attack dogs bred for violence. People saying that it's the owner not the dog are simply using emotional "evidence" and are not being honest with themselves regarding the overwhelming evidence as to what the breed is. The "Bell Curve" concept applies here as it does other places we talk about genetic pre-dispositions. Dogs are no different. Anyone trying to suggest otherwise is ignoring absolutely overwhelming evidence that points explicitly to the contrary. All because "I know this one dog that is nice and sweet and has never hurt a fly".

I understand why it's done. Each dog IS uniquely different with it's own distinct personality. I think we can all agree on that. However, to the extent to which the personality overrides the underlying inherent nature of the breed is a dynamic arrangement. It is not a 'love pit bull XX amount and you'll overcome any violent nature'. Some individuals have an overwhelming sense of this violent nature. Some have less so. Hence the "bell curve".

That being said, the statistics clearly show that the Pit Bull breed, as it is today, has an innate nature that produces relatively few individuals possessing the potential to overcome their instincts to attack and kill other creatures in a non-survival scenario. Some cannot overcome their nature no matter how much love and affection you give it. This is a huge problem.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I have a little dog daisy, she is a jack russle/poddle mix. She is the sweetest dog you could ever meet loves everyone wants nothing more then to kiss you and sit with you. Until a little critter comes with in her view. Its like a switch is flipped and she turns into this snarling predator bent of destruction.
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  #132  
Old 19 December 2017, 17:06
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
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I saw a killer poodle engage in combat with a cat while its owner, a small blonde, kept asking and begging for it to stop
Cat ultimately decided he's seen enough shit from this well manicured poodle clown and just ran up nearest tree. Poodle kept barking up the tree, calling the cat to go down and finish the duel. Woman was apoplexic.

I also never saw bigger loudmouths than Yorks.

Last edited by Paul85; 19 December 2017 at 17:14.
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  #133  
Old 19 December 2017, 17:32
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Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
your post...
Yup, I just do not commonly hear about roaming packs of out-of-control shitheel German Sheppards or Golden Retrievers killing animals or people and eating them. Maybe I'm wrong.
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  #134  
Old 19 December 2017, 17:39
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I saw a killer poodle engage in combat with a cat while its owner, a small blonde, kept asking and begging for it to stop
The typical outdoor cat will walk up one side of a poodle and down the other leaving it in shreds before the poodle knows what happened. A "tame" (soft) house cat maybe a different story. Buddy used to work animal control...most afraid of "wild" cats.
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  #135  
Old 19 December 2017, 17:51
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I never cared for them. They will turn on there owners.
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  #136  
Old 19 December 2017, 18:05
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
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Yes, it was probably a house cat. Or maybe it didn't want to stoop down to the level of the poodle. I mean cats have their pride; fighting a German Shepherd might boost your creds in cat world, but a poodle? A poodle with a goddamn bow no less???
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  #137  
Old 19 December 2017, 18:14
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Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
Emotions...after seeing reports of someone torn to pieces...yeah, you are right there. After seeing my neighbor still trying to recover, yep...emotion..sharks and Pitbulls...not the same argument at all. Never saw a shark swimming down my street, although that would be kinda cool.
Let me know when it gets to the point that you're seeing even 1 in 10 people owning the breed getting shredded by their dogs and I'll agree that you're making a sensible argument.

Until then it's an admitted emotional reaction to witnessing something that hit close to home.

I don't blame you for feeling emotional about seeing that. I am sure it was. It's just that we don't tend to be all that logical with big picture stuff after having an isolated incident happen to us or in our immediate circle.

The data simply contradicts the anti-PB message. If all were just waiting to kill their owners we would see tens of thousands of articles every day expressing the incidents. Instead the best argument is that someone knows someone who got attacked.

Wikipedia listed less than a dozen recorded fatalities. Ignoring the datasets that we present to substantiate our own arguments is somewhat pointless, unless those were the only Pits in America.

As for the Shark, I was making the reference to irrational fear. Sorry I didn't explain that in more detail.
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  #138  
Old 19 December 2017, 18:38
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It's not about 'what percentage'. That's a non-sequitur. It's what are the consequences of the worst case scenario? And what does common sense say? I've never been bit by a poisonous snake, but I kill every copperhead, water moccasin, rattlesnake that I come across.......and I leave the water snakes, rat snakes, garter snakes, and corn snakes alone.

If you wouldn't allow a dog breed to be alone with your 4 year old because the increased likelihood of them being mauled to death is beyond your comfort threshold, why is it somehow some horrible thing to point out the fact that out? And I point out "worst case scenario" because we're not talking about all those little shitty rat dogs that bite and nip and are generally cantankerous pieces of garbage. Those present no mortal threat to anyone. A pit will KILL you or a loved one -- AND they have an innate disposition to do so at the drop of a hat without any provocation. You can NEVER tell which 'friendly' pit is going to all of a sudden start trying to kill you. That's the big difference. Many of these pit bull attacks have been from dogs that previously have shown no sign of being aggressive. Then they just "snap" and revert to killer mode in a nanosecond. Don't see why this is such a difficult subject to objectively grasp.
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  #139  
Old 19 December 2017, 18:49
Azatty Azatty is offline
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Since the neighbor has a pit bull, I've decided that I should get another cat. Like a tiger. Or maybe a honey badger instead.

Dog already bit my daughter and a roofer they had working at their place. Under AZ law, it should be dead already--two reported bites and Animal Control puts any dog down. I try to be a good neighbor, but when the thing is trying to scale the wall to eat me when I'm trying to mow the lawn, I start thinking about a dedicated weapons platform like DH's roof raccoon setup to deal with the issue.
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  #140  
Old 19 December 2017, 18:59
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
It's not about 'what percentage'. That's a non-sequitur. It's what are the consequences of the worst case scenario? And what does common sense say? I've never been bit by a poisonous snake, but I kill every copperhead, water moccasin, rattlesnake that I come across.......and I leave the water snakes, rat snakes, garter snakes, and corn snakes alone.

If you wouldn't allow a dog breed to be alone with your 4 year old because the increased likelihood of them being mauled to death is beyond your comfort threshold, why is it somehow some horrible thing to point out the fact that out? And I point out "worst case scenario" because we're not talking about all those little shitty rat dogs that bite and nip and are generally cantankerous pieces of garbage. Those present no mortal threat to anyone. A pit will KILL you or a loved one -- AND they have an innate disposition to do so at the drop of a hat without any provocation. You can NEVER tell which 'friendly' pit is going to all of a sudden start trying to kill you. That's the big difference. Many of these pit bull attacks have been from dogs that previously have shown no sign of being aggressive. Then they just "snap" and revert to killer mode in a nanosecond. Don't see why this is such a difficult subject to objectively grasp.
Based on your argument we should go ahead and kill all humans. Those bad people out there that are murdering, raping, etc.. Put us all down before the next child gets hurt.

You never know when someone is going to turn on you... FFS.
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