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  #81  
Old 15 July 2015, 10:21
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
I excuse fmr-Pres Carter, as he was a useless president -- more worried about which woman's pants he could get in than anything going on in the world -- including Iran -- but from Presidents Reagan and onward, each of them are responsible for Americans dying at the hands of the govt of Iran. And each of them will share in the future events should Iran succeed and develop nuclear weapons (or any other serious WMD).

We should all be sickened by the events leading up to, and the signing of this treaty....
Fuck that, I don't excuse Carter or policies/actions/non-actions that led to the overthrow of the Shah.
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  #82  
Old 15 July 2015, 10:24
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Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
This is going to be a shit-show.

Israel is pissed....and should be.

Mark my words, we will see Israel and Iran tossing nukes at each other in our lifetimes. My money is that this will escalate faster than the DPRK.
Knowing that the U.S. will respond? I doubt it. They better do it while Obama is still POTUS.
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  #83  
Old 15 July 2015, 10:38
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Originally Posted by Hoepoe View Post
Other than a device delivered by a warhead, Iran is the biggest supporter of terror against the West and Israel. Imagine is the car in 1983 had a "dirty device", or Times Square, or Tel Aviv. On multiple occasions, even in the past few weeks and days, Iranian leaders have publicized rhetoric about "wiping Israel off the face of the Earth", and now they will, in my opinion, get nuclear weapon capability..
Dirty bombs are not nearly as effective as you may think, it's seriously a waste of very expensive material that shows little in terms of "damage". It's scary, true, but in reality is a big "meh".

I have no doubt Iran, if it does build a device, would use it.

However, utilizing a terror cell to deliver a device (or Iranian agents, whatever) would still point the finger directly to Iran. Devices have very distinct fingerprints, it wouldn't take very long to find the origin.

Iran knows full well there would be repercussions for an attack on Israel hence not attacking Israel right now. A nuke device would be a nice tool but that certainly isn't going to be their only reason for an attack.

Who knows? Maybe Iran is that naÔve, perhaps they actually think this would be "The Sword of Allah" or some such shit. Our own politicians do some pretty stupid shit thinking it's a great idea so nothing really surprises me anymore.

Logically though, it's not as straightforward as most people may think.
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  #84  
Old 15 July 2015, 11:05
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I have no special insight to the polictics of Iran or Israel or that of our own country -- but I wonder how much retaliation would occur if the govt of Iran reported that the nuke just detonated on/inside the borders of Israel were stolen by fanatics and said actions not authorized by the state of Iran? I'm guessing that with the world's acceptance of errors and apologies (even if it weren't an apology), that nothing would really happen -- EXCEPT serious and undeniable street creds for Iran from Muslims the world over....
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  #85  
Old 15 July 2015, 11:13
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
I have no special insight to the polictics of Iran or Israel or that of our own country -- but I wonder how much retaliation would occur if the govt of Iran reported that the nuke just detonated on/inside the borders of Israel were stolen by fanatics and said actions not authorized by the state of Iran? I'm guessing that with the world's acceptance of errors and apologies (even if it weren't an apology), that nothing would really happen -- EXCEPT serious and undeniable street creds for Iran from Muslims the world over....
Do all Muslims mean Israel ill will? I doubt it.
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  #86  
Old 15 July 2015, 11:49
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
-- but I wonder how much retaliation would occur if the govt of Iran reported that the nuke just detonated on/inside the borders of Israel were stolen by fanatics and said actions not authorized by the state of Iran? I'm guessing that with the world's acceptance of errors and apologies (even if it weren't an apology), that nothing would really happen -- EXCEPT serious and undeniable street creds for Iran from Muslims the world over....
Seeing how Israel has the F16 with conformal tanks, and the distance from Tel Aviv to Tehran is less than 1,000 miles, and the range of the Falcon without the conformal tanks is something like 1,600 miles, I'd venture that you'd see a very quick and dramatic response, despite any claims made by Tehran about "it wasn't us."


ETA: Does anybody keep track of the IDF's Dolphin class subs?
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Last edited by B 2/75; 15 July 2015 at 11:57.
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  #87  
Old 15 July 2015, 11:52
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Do all Muslims mean Israel ill will?
Not all Germans hated Jews...
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  #88  
Old 15 July 2015, 11:58
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
I have no special insight to the polictics of Iran or Israel or that of our own country -- but I wonder how much retaliation would occur if the govt of Iran reported that the nuke just detonated on/inside the borders of Israel were stolen by fanatics and said actions not authorized by the state of Iran? I'm guessing that with the world's acceptance of errors and apologies (even if it weren't an apology), that nothing would really happen -- EXCEPT serious and undeniable street creds for Iran from Muslims the world over....
I'm sure Iran would get a serious finger shaking directed at them.
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  #89  
Old 15 July 2015, 12:00
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Do all Muslims mean Israel ill will? I doubt it.
Only the ones that take the scriptures of their own religion seriously enough to act on their beliefs.
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  #90  
Old 15 July 2015, 12:01
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Not all Germans hated Jews...
Exactly. In the end it didn't matter that there were exceptions.
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  #91  
Old 15 July 2015, 12:26
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Do all Muslims mean Israel ill will? I doubt it.
Arabs and Muslims are not the same thing.
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  #92  
Old 15 July 2015, 12:30
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Originally Posted by Hoepoe View Post
Arabs and Muslims are not the same thing.
True.

Indonesia has 204 million Muslims. Do they give a shit about Israel and its destruction?

I honestly don't know. I know there are some extremists there, but my sense is that the majority don't give a damn about the Arab Israel squabbles even though they are Muslim.
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  #93  
Old 15 July 2015, 12:59
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It seems they follow the party line: LINK
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  #94  
Old 15 July 2015, 13:07
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Originally Posted by B 2/75 View Post
Seeing how Israel has the F16 with conformal tanks, and the distance from Tel Aviv to Tehran is less than 1,000 miles, and the range of the Falcon without the conformal tanks is something like 1,600 miles, I'd venture that you'd see a very quick and dramatic response, despite any claims made by Tehran about "it wasn't us."


ETA: Does anybody keep track of the IDF's Dolphin class subs?
The Israelis also have the F-15I Ra'am (Israeli variant of the Strike Eagle) and given it's greater load-carrying capability, I think they'd would probably be the aircraft used to deliver a strike on any Iranian nuclear sites... with escort from the F-16I Sufas.

As for their Dolphins - not sure you really can keep a good track on them. It's a pretty secretive fleet as well as when and where they deploy from what I can tell. Given the stealthiness of a submarine with modern tech and a well-trained crew they'd be elusive alright. The Iranians have five P-3F Orions and a dozen or so SH-3D Sea Kings as their ASW platforms - and most likely have had little in the way of sensor upgrades since they got delivered in the mid-70's.

Also, there is no way to know for sure, but there are persistent rumours of a Popeye Turbo SLCM/cruise missile variant armed with a nuclear warhead and would offer the Israelis a sea-based nuclear deterrent.
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  #95  
Old 15 July 2015, 13:10
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Originally Posted by Streck-Fu View Post
It seems they follow the party line: LINK
Sigh....

You do realize Malaysia and Indonesia are two different places?
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  #96  
Old 15 July 2015, 13:26
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Originally Posted by Fofo View Post
* * * Your Post * * *

Translation: Don't fuck with Israel unless you're ready to get body slammed in return.

Listening to the PM's speeches, they're getting more and more direct and to the point.
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  #97  
Old 15 July 2015, 13:55
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Lifting sanctions could unfreeze $150 billion of Iranian money and open borders for business...
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  #98  
Old 15 July 2015, 13:57
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Do all Muslims mean Israel ill will? I doubt it.
All the Arab ones do.

From another site, but an inspired bit of photoshopping......
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  #99  
Old 15 July 2015, 13:58
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I'm still confused and unclear in regards to congress and its ability to keep the sanctions in place.

I've heard they will be lifted under the deal but have also heard that congress can keep them in place without a veto proof majority.
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  #100  
Old 15 July 2015, 14:05
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The Persians and Israelis had excellent relations under the Shah, I doubt they have declined that much that Israel would be a target before Riyadh or perhaps some Sunni holy site.

I think the Israelis are playing this up trying to get the US to carry their water for them. If they decide to do the work themselves, cool, but I'm tired of being the world's goon squad. What are our interests? As long as the oil flows, who gives a shit how many dead durkas there are?

If the Iranians make a bomb, they'll openly test it. Nukes are bargaining pieces, if you don't make it public, why have them? Israel is an exception because they must stay on our good side to keep the free shit flowing. I think the Iranians have used this as a bargaining chip to get sanctions lifted in the knowledge they're going to be ahead of their real enemies, the Sunnis, in a decade or so anyways, nukes or not.

If the idiots nuke up, they lose the best protection they had, the US policy not to use nukes vs non-nuclear powers. Our population (stupidly) obeys and fetishes arbitrary and totally meaningless words on paper, things like the Hague Accords, the Geneva Conventions, international laws in general. Yeah, the current POTUS is weak sauce, but that won't always be the case, and if the durkas pull some underhanded terrorist shit like Sep 11, a POTUS with balls could erase Iran with complete freedom. Yeah, they'll be the historical revisionists, just like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but he'll be in the history books regardless. S/F.....Ken M
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