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  #41  
Old 5 February 2018, 11:28
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I wish they'd stop saying that it's only a select few people that have behaved poorly. That's the entire problem - our government has legalized this type of misbehavior. They have written and passed countless laws that allow the government to act with impunity in matters that would send a member of the working class to prison for the rest of their life.

Nothing this dirty gets done with just a "few" people knowing what is going on.
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  #42  
Old 5 February 2018, 11:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedition
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678,  1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII,  330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII,  330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/t...-I/chapter-115

Anyone see any possible problems with applying these in this case?
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  #43  
Old 5 February 2018, 14:50
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Sedition would be relatively easy, IMO. Prevent/hinder/delay seems almost ridiculously easy to prove, what with these morons retweeting the #resist garbage every chance they get. Treason could be wormed out of by a sufficiently slimy lawyer - e.g. "That depends on what your definition of the word enemy is".

Now if you could pin the recent stock market fuckery being perpetrated by those who were against the 'memo' being released......then I guess you could charge Treason, as in the financial warfare aspect of a phrase. Eh, if I was a judge I'd allow it.
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  #44  
Old 5 February 2018, 15:07
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Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
You can't fight a tide of lawyers with just one honest marine by your side.
Depends what the Rules of Engagement are, no?
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  #45  
Old 5 February 2018, 15:44
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The definition of the word "enemy"???

Hell, Bill Clinton couldn't tell you what the word "is" meant...

You expect anyone in the government to be able to define a 5 letter word? Jesus, we'd be in court for years just explaining to them why their behavior was wrong...
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  #46  
Old 5 February 2018, 16:34
KillRoy KillRoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB View Post
Here's the bottom line:

Obama was able to do "legally" what Richard Nixon attempted to do illegally: Wire tap the headquarters of your political opponent in a presidential election.
This is a brilliant summary of the entire situation.

I have a real problem with the FISA court and all other confidential/sealed proceedings in any court. I am idealistic enough to believe that before the government is allowed to get a search warrant, convict someone or take away there freedom, they should be required to stand up in a public forum and explain why. Then, someone like CB should be allowed to challenge those arguments. No closed proceedings, no confidential informants, no shielded witnesses, no sealed records for anything. Nothing. Court proceedings by their nature, should be open to public review.

We cannot just take the cops, DAs, or US Attorneys word for it. While most are no doubt well intentioned, the temptation to take short cuts is just too great. It just opens up the system for way too much abuse.

I did some research and found that since the FISA court was founded in 1978, a secret search warrant has been requested over 35,000 times. The number of times a request for a search warrant has been denied ...... 12.

This reeks of a legal rubber stamp that allows the government to what Nixon tried to do without court approval. Just like CB said.
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  #47  
Old 5 February 2018, 16:46
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Very good point on the word "is"
We had a US president that was willing to query the interpretation of the word "is"
...its an absolute miracle that anything at all gets done in this country
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  #48  
Old 5 February 2018, 17:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box View Post
...its an absolute miracle that anything at all gets done in this country
You're assuming anything does, at that level. I think 99.9% gets canceled out during the fuck you contests.

For cross thread points, I personally think that's why Gowdy is stepping down.
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  #49  
Old 5 February 2018, 17:23
WGH0922 WGH0922 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
No, I do understand the Judges acted in good faith, except I understand they "rubber stamp" approve 99.9999% of FISA applications. That bothers me.
That was when they "trusted" the information they were givenin the FISA apps. I'd say that trust is questionable now if it even exists. I'm not at the point to say the judges were complicit but............
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  #50  
Old 5 February 2018, 20:07
DB8541 DB8541 is offline
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Kind of odd the Stock market has been tanking the last three trading days, just as pandoras box is being opened in DC. Not derailing to a conspiracy thread buuttttt...
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  #51  
Old 5 February 2018, 20:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillRoy View Post
This is a brilliant summary of the entire situation.

No closed proceedings, no confidential informants, no shielded witnesses, no sealed records for anything. Nothing. Court proceedings by their nature, should be open to public review.
I could potentially agree with this in criminal matters. But I don't know if I would say for ALL court proceedings, however. Custody proceedings or divorce proceedings, for example, are an entirely different animal.
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  #52  
Old 5 February 2018, 21:21
Fu King Lawyer Fu King Lawyer is offline
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In the House Memo, I think that the Chairman's chief assistant, a member of Congress who was a former AUSA, sent a message to the American people when one word was emphasized in the House report, that word was "not" telling us that the application was not under Title VII, the amendments to the FISA. I'm still waiting - but if this thing comes full circle, it will be revealed they were trying to get beyond minimization requirements for wires and gather and disseminate raw data on US persons.

If what I suspect is so, the violation of the civil rights of US persons, is a felony. Title 18 US Code 242. The failure of the FBI to tell the FISA Court that the informant was fired, during the renewals means either the FBI engaged in knowing violations of civil rights - or the deviation from the US Attorney Manual requirements for reliability of informants under Aguilar-Spinelli was authorized by a political appointee, possibly Acting AG Sally Yates.

Last edited by Fu King Lawyer; 5 February 2018 at 21:28.
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  #53  
Old 5 February 2018, 21:56
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
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This gets to the Title I vs. Title VII issue Fu King Lawyer raised.

I'm still trying to process this, but the group blog Conservative Treehouse is suggesting this stunning development: Carter Page's contacts with the Russians that formed the basis for the fear that Page was the agent of a foreign power came because he was...an undercover employee of the FBI during the period in question (2013-2016). He had contacts with Russians because that was his job.

The blog is here:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com...urt-hes-a-spy/

It also suggests that this explains John Carlin's departure. Carlin was the Assistant Atty. General overseeing the National Security Division, until his departure in September/October 2016, about the time the FISA application came together. The implication is that he would have resisted his agent being sold out this way, and quit when he saw what was happening. This last bit is my supposition.
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  #54  
Old 5 February 2018, 23:25
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I saw that too Armitage. Things are getting very interesting.
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  #55  
Old 5 February 2018, 23:47
19MIKE 19MIKE is offline
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Obama had to spy on Trump to protect himself

Another interesting article from Horowitz's page, this one by Daniel Greenfield on 'Why Obama Really Spied on Trump'.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/267...iel-greenfield

His references show just how deep and dirty the last admin was, starting with the guy at the top. The Muslim Bro'hood, the Iran deal, Benghazi....sickening. The Carter Page set up stuff, if true.....deeply disturbing. Now I hear talk of the Fed possibly purposely crashing the economy to spite POTUS.

The only reason these people (the left) are considered 'Americans' IMO, is because they happened to be born here. Other than that, I share no kinship nor moral or ethical values with them. Some convoluted ideological evil shit here.
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  #56  
Old 6 February 2018, 00:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19MIKE View Post
Another interesting article from Horowitz's page.
Last fall I posted that exact same link in another thread here (the article is from last September). Reading it again now, Horowitz's predictions and analysis were remarkably spot on.
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  #57  
Old 6 February 2018, 06:42
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage12 View Post
This gets to the Title I vs. Title VII issue Fu King Lawyer raised.

I'm still trying to process this, but the group blog Conservative Treehouse is suggesting this stunning development: Carter Page's contacts with the Russians that formed the basis for the fear that Page was the agent of a foreign power came because he was...an undercover employee of the FBI during the period in question (2013-2016). He had contacts with Russians because that was his job.

The blog is here:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com...urt-hes-a-spy/

It also suggests that this explains John Carlin's departure. Carlin was the Assistant Atty. General overseeing the National Security Division, until his departure in September/October 2016, about the time the FISA application came together. The implication is that he would have resisted his agent being sold out this way, and quit when he saw what was happening. This last bit is my supposition.
I should add, this supposition by the Conservative Treehouse writers comes from their analysis of publicly available news articles about the investigation with which Page was involved, and apparently Buzzfeed outed Page early in 2016 as the court case was unfolding. No rumors.
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  #58  
Old 6 February 2018, 07:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage12 View Post
apparently Buzzfeed outed Page.
If Page really was a covert operative, then revealing that was a crime, or at least it was called one back when W was POTUS.
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  #59  
Old 6 February 2018, 12:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage12 View Post
This gets to the Title I vs. Title VII issue Fu King Lawyer raised.

I'm still trying to process this, but the group blog Conservative Treehouse is suggesting this stunning development: Carter Page's contacts with the Russians that formed the basis for the fear that Page was the agent of a foreign power came because he was...an undercover employee of the FBI during the period in question (2013-2016). He had contacts with Russians because that was his job.

The blog is here:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com...urt-hes-a-spy/

It also suggests that this explains John Carlin's departure. Carlin was the Assistant Atty. General overseeing the National Security Division, until his departure in September/October 2016, about the time the FISA application came together. The implication is that he would have resisted his agent being sold out this way, and quit when he saw what was happening. This last bit is my supposition.

Interesting theory. I will say that, based on his TV interview with Laura Ingraham last night, I doubt he was an "Agent" (not really the correct term) in the traditional sense. More likely he was just being debriefed after his visits. His interview last night didn't do him any favors. I'm sure it can be found on YouTube.
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  #60  
Old 6 February 2018, 12:53
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Carter Page talked to George Snuffalupagus this morning as well - I don't know why anyone on the right would grant an interview with a partisan hack like Snuffalupagus. No matter what, he is going to ask snarky questions and insure he always gets the last word to make sure he makes HIS point better than you can make yours.

Slanted
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