SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > Veterans Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 6 January 2018, 17:15
Purple36's Avatar
Purple36 Purple36 is offline
Swimming Upstream
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 9,423
Alcohol Extinction, Is It Possible?

The Sinclair Method uses a 50MG dose of Naltrexone one hour prior to drinking to gradually cause an "extinction" of cravings for alcohol.

It is used in Finland, but is almost unheard of in the US, which seems criminal to me.

So if you are struggling with alcohol or other substances and are feeling out of control or frustrated, take a look at these links:

https://www.the-sinclair-method.com/
https://www.recoveringfromrecovery.com/
https://www.cthreefoundation.org/claudias-tedx.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ber-naltrexone
https://www.thefix.com/content/naltr...ent-alcoholism

The documentary "One Little Pill" available free on Amazon Prime
__________________
- Faith involves believing in the veracity of the unprovable and unobservable, whether that consists of religion or theoretical physics, which at the very subatomic level start looking rather similar. -ET1/SS Nuke

Last edited by Purple36; 6 January 2018 at 17:40.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 6 January 2018, 19:48
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,798
AA is not a treatment mechanism, it is a loose affiliation of support groups, and as such is not mutually exclusive from the Sinclair Method. AA is also completely nonprofit, whereas the Sinclair Method makes money. The "C Three Foundation" claim that AA makes lots of money off the sale of literature is misleading and deliberately mischaracterizes the nature of AA (and for the record, I am not an AA member).

I read through the websites. This may work for some alcoholics, but only some. There are already similar products available in the US, which also help some alcoholics, but only some. These products have been available for years.

In short, new spin on an old treatment modality.
__________________
Life’s barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 6 January 2018, 21:49
Purple36's Avatar
Purple36 Purple36 is offline
Swimming Upstream
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 9,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
AA is not a treatment mechanism, it is a loose affiliation of support groups, and as such is not mutually exclusive from the Sinclair Method. AA is also completely nonprofit, whereas the Sinclair Method makes money. The "C Three Foundation" claim that AA makes lots of money off the sale of literature is misleading and deliberately mischaracterizes the nature of AA (and for the record, I am not an AA member).

I read through the websites. This may work for some alcoholics, but only some. There are already similar products available in the US, which also help some alcoholics, but only some. These products have been available for years.

In short, new spin on an old treatment modality.
The Sinclair method is a methodolgy, it's the medication that cost money. You don't have go to any special clinic or doctor.

AA requires complete abstinence and sheer willpower while Naltrexone gradually kills the cravings. How Naltrexone is generally prescribed in the US requires abstinence, which is not what the Sinclair method is. I'd say an 80% success rate is pretty darn good.

For some folks AA is helpful, but it's not the only thing out there. My point in posting is not to argue, but to provide links to alternatives for folks who might never have heard about this option. I certainly had not and one of my best friend is an ASAP counselor....
__________________
- Faith involves believing in the veracity of the unprovable and unobservable, whether that consists of religion or theoretical physics, which at the very subatomic level start looking rather similar. -ET1/SS Nuke
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 6 January 2018, 22:02
NYwood914's Avatar
NYwood914 NYwood914 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Westchester, New York
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
AA requires complete abstinence and sheer willpower while Naltrexone gradually kills the cravings. How Naltrexone is generally prescribed in the US requires abstinence, which is not what the Sinclair method is. I'd say an 80% success rate is pretty darn good. .
Actually, AA asks that you turn your will over on a daily basis. It's the 3rd step. Perhaps I misunderstood your use of "sheer willpower" but it seems like you have totally missed the mark. Not trying to be an ass but it's an important distinction.

Also, my mother is a (CSAC) certified substance abuse counselor and has worked in the addiction field for 30+ years. Her view on Naltrexone is consistent with Gavin's.

Last edited by NYwood914; 6 January 2018 at 22:21.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 7 January 2018, 09:43
Purple36's Avatar
Purple36 Purple36 is offline
Swimming Upstream
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 9,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYwood914 View Post
Actually, AA asks that you turn your will over on a daily basis. It's the 3rd step. Perhaps I misunderstood your use of "sheer willpower" but it seems like you have totally missed the mark. Not trying to be an ass but it's an important distinction.

Also, my mother is a (CSAC) certified substance abuse counselor and has worked in the addiction field for 30+ years. Her view on Naltrexone is consistent with Gavin's.
Please ask your mother if she her understanding of medicating with Naltrexone requires abstinence from alcohol. If so, that is not the same thing. TSM requires that you drink if you use Naltrexone...its how you start changing the endorphin response in your brain, until you simply lose interest in alcohol.

Perhaps I have triggered an unnecessary discussion by labeling this as a AA Alternative.
__________________
- Faith involves believing in the veracity of the unprovable and unobservable, whether that consists of religion or theoretical physics, which at the very subatomic level start looking rather similar. -ET1/SS Nuke
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 7 January 2018, 12:17
NYwood914's Avatar
NYwood914 NYwood914 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Westchester, New York
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
Please ask your mother if she her understanding of medicating with Naltrexone requires abstinence from alcohol. If so, that is not the same thing. TSM requires that you drink if you use Naltrexone...its how you start changing the endorphin response in your brain, until you simply lose interest in alcohol.

Perhaps I have triggered an unnecessary discussion by labeling this as a AA Alternative.
She said they never encourage an addict/alcoholic to use any mild altering substance, ever. Abstinance is encouraged but not required for naltrexone to be effective. So yes, TSM is different then the common approach.

If you give me Naltrexone/Antabuse I'll just use cocaine/xanax/Molly. From my experience, that is true for most of the addicts/alcoholics I know.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 6 January 2018, 22:07
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,798
I'm not looking to argue, either.

I started reading the links with interest. As I've written about on here before, I am a recovering alcoholic, and I have recently started getting more interested in various treatment and recovery (for many years after getting sober I had little interest in recovery issues).

After reading a bit, I began to get a whiff of snake oil. When I read what others who are pushing the Sinclair method (CThree), I found a whole lot of dishonesty.

That written, as I wrote before, this may work for some alcoholics. It would have never worked for me, and most alcoholics I know. The denial and lack of self-awareness common in most alcoholics would prevent most from trying this.
__________________
Life’s barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 7 January 2018, 09:45
Purple36's Avatar
Purple36 Purple36 is offline
Swimming Upstream
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 9,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
I'm not looking to argue, either.

I started reading the links with interest. As I've written about on here before, I am a recovering alcoholic, and I have recently started getting more interested in various treatment and recovery (for many years after getting sober I had little interest in recovery issues).

After reading a bit, I began to get a whiff of snake oil. When I read what others who are pushing the Sinclair method (CThree), I found a whole lot of dishonesty.

That written, as I wrote before, this may work for some alcoholics. It would have never worked for me, and most alcoholics I know. The denial and lack of self-awareness common in most alcoholics would prevent most from trying this.
That's interesting Gaviin, why do you say it wouldn't work when it actually requires that you drink for it to work?
__________________
- Faith involves believing in the veracity of the unprovable and unobservable, whether that consists of religion or theoretical physics, which at the very subatomic level start looking rather similar. -ET1/SS Nuke
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 7 January 2018, 12:29
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
That's interesting Gaviin, why do you say it wouldn't work when it actually requires that you drink for it to work?
For me, I had no desire to stop drinking for many years, because being a hard-drinking man was a huge part of who I was and how I saw myself. Most of the folks I spent time with were the same.

By the time I faced reality, and knew I was an alcoholic, and that my drinking was killing me, I no longer really cared. My standard thought was “no one likes a quitter.” I was fine with where things were. I had become an empty shell. My soul was dead.
__________________
Life’s barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12 January 2018, 19:40
bm2bob's Avatar
bm2bob bm2bob is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: the Road to Happy Destiny
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
The Sinclair method is a methodolgy, it's the medication that cost money. You don't have go to any special clinic or doctor.

AA requires complete abstinence and sheer willpower while Naltrexone gradually kills the cravings. How Naltrexone is generally prescribed in the US requires abstinence, which is not what the Sinclair method is. I'd say an 80% success rate is pretty darn good.

For some folks AA is helpful, but it's not the only thing out there. My point in posting is not to argue, but to provide links to alternatives for folks who might never have heard about this option. I certainly had not and one of my best friend is an ASAP counselor....
The Sinclair Method is based on sketchy research and a reliance on Naltrexone.


ASAM which is the organization for addiction MDs is clear that the best treatment for Alcohol Use Disorder Severe which is th closest medical equivalent to alcoholism is best treated by abstinence That is the EBP for it. Sinclair is not and most of the docs that do support it are quacks. Not all most
__________________
...the sea's in my veins...my tradition remains..."
Mother Mother Ocean, I have heard your call..."

Fair Winds and Following Seas SOTB & Cass

Last edited by bm2bob; 12 January 2018 at 19:52.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12 January 2018, 20:38
Purple36's Avatar
Purple36 Purple36 is offline
Swimming Upstream
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 9,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm2bob View Post
The Sinclair Method is based on sketchy research and a reliance on Naltrexone.


ASAM which is the organization for addiction MDs is clear that the best treatment for Alcohol Use Disorder Severe which is th closest medical equivalent to alcoholism is best treated by abstinence That is the EBP for it. Sinclair is not and most of the docs that do support it are quacks. Not all most
How would you respond to folks who have completely turned their lives around with the help of Naltrexone?

https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/36/1/2/137995

The APA is recognizing Natltrexone as a mainstream treatment

https://www.psychcongress.com/articl...l-use-disorder
__________________
- Faith involves believing in the veracity of the unprovable and unobservable, whether that consists of religion or theoretical physics, which at the very subatomic level start looking rather similar. -ET1/SS Nuke
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12 January 2018, 21:51
bm2bob's Avatar
bm2bob bm2bob is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: the Road to Happy Destiny
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
How would you respond to folks who have completely turned their lives around with the help of Naltrexone?

https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/36/1/2/137995

The APA is recognizing Natltrexone as a mainstream treatment

https://www.psychcongress.com/articl...l-use-disorder
I would say good for them. Recovery is not easy, I'm not in a position to judge anybody's recovery.

I personally have worked with dozens of people who have been helped by Naltrexone. I know a guy who would predictably relapse soon after his monthly vivitrol would wear out.

I personally don't think MAT is the best long term answer for most, but it saves lives. It may be the only thing that works for some.

The APA is talking about using it for abstinence. That is not the Sinclair Method.
__________________
...the sea's in my veins...my tradition remains..."
Mother Mother Ocean, I have heard your call..."

Fair Winds and Following Seas SOTB & Cass
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 6 January 2018, 23:45
Sigi's Avatar
Sigi Sigi is offline
Life is simple, not easy.
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 4,100
Nothing stopped me from drinking. Not sheer willpower, not Antabuse, not smoking pot. It has taken me several attempts at leaving and coming back, but AA is the only thing that has kept me sober. The success rate isn't great but that's because alcohol is cunning, baffling and powerful.

I had to surrender or I'd be dead by now.
__________________
.
bravodelta: "If they start taxing lapdances, I think I'll call it quits and become a chaplain."
Chaplain: "God moves in mysterious ways...", but ... well.... uhh... welcome aboard!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12 January 2018, 18:34
Dutch8654's Avatar
Dutch8654 Dutch8654 is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Key West Isle of Misfits
Posts: 1,211
I am not getting this. Do you need help to STOP drinking and are committed? Then try HARD and get on Naltrexone for at least a year. If you fall off the wagon get back on it and continue to try. Sure you can "cheat" on Naltrexone but thats not the purpose now is it? They also have it in injections, the VA now uses it. The shit is not cheap, I recently heard $1400 a shot. Many DRS dont even now what it is but I would give it a try if you really need help to quit.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 6 February 2018, 20:39
ramzmedic's Avatar
ramzmedic ramzmedic is offline
I really don't care
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hastings, MN
Posts: 1,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
The Sinclair Method uses a 50MG dose of Naltrexone one hour prior to drinking to gradually cause an "extinction" of cravings for alcohol.

It is used in Finland, but is almost unheard of in the US, which seems criminal to me.

So if you are struggling with alcohol or other substances and are feeling out of control or frustrated, take a look at these links:

https://www.the-sinclair-method.com/
https://www.recoveringfromrecovery.com/
https://www.cthreefoundation.org/claudias-tedx.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ber-naltrexone
https://www.thefix.com/content/naltr...ent-alcoholism

The documentary "One Little Pill" available free on Amazon Prime
Or you GP with Vivotrol, the injectible version of Naltrexone that lasts an entire month. It takes away the challenge of some people taking a pill.

I spend a great deal of time in this environment with Vets. For most alcoholics, just one things will not work. Meds, AA and/ot Smart Recovery. Disulfram (antabuse) in various combinations is what works most. Of course this is only once the person wants to stop.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:27.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
© SOCNET 1996-2018