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Old 28 May 2012, 11:01
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Increased disability claims

http://www.mariettatimes.com/page/co...sap=1&nav=5020
Not because this is news to the members here, but rather it's
important for the civilian community to be reminded of these facts, (I've become aware of an increase in the last eight yrs in young veterans showing up in my AA/CD groups) and this article might be useful to refer.
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Old 28 May 2012, 11:35
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And yet multiple statistics show that less than 2% of active military during the last two wars ever took part in exchange of fire with the enemy.

Less than 2%.

Fucking pathetic, some people used the military like welfare, then seek that same sugar when they leave.

And the worst part is how many knowingly use the image of mangled fighting men to insinuate they were part of something else, while the average civilian thinks every single service member is door kicking.

I hope theyre proud of themselves.
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Old 28 May 2012, 11:47
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Seems like a lot of diagnosis from the "diagnosis community". My ears ring all the time too.
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Old 28 May 2012, 16:32
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And yet multiple statistics show that less than 2% of active military during the last two wars ever took part in exchange of fire with the enemy.
So what. Everyone wearing a uniform today stepped up to serve in a time of war. If they have a no shit service connected disability they deserve the compensation and medical care for it. I agree there is some misuse of the system, but any medical problem needs to be documented and claimed.

Even if something like a bum knee isn't as bad as it was now, that doesn't mean that it wont get worse later. The pounding it took in the military is worth about double it would have taken on the outside. I think that is a factor and deserves to be evaluated for compensation if that person has knee problems later in life.

Benefits shouldn't be exclusively for those who were in contact with the enemy.
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Old 28 May 2012, 16:52
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So what. Everyone wearing a uniform today stepped up to serve in a time of war.

Benefits shouldn't be exclusively for those who were in contact with the enemy.
Sure they did. And if that's the sentiment, everyone who ever volunteered for military service did so to either serve in a war, or to be prepared to serve in a war. So what. Does that mean that because they volunteered they are entitled to basically a lifetime pension for their time?

And no, benefits shouldn't be ONLY for those in contact. If you get hurt doing your job, that's what disability is for. But I don't see how in this partiulcar generation, apparently 50% of those serving suffer some sort of life altering injury, record numbers compared to previous generations, while also sending record low numbers of troops to the lines. The numbers don't add up.

And it's hard to deny that there are many recently discharged vets exploiting the disability system, shit the civi run TAPS class I had to go to spent an entire day teaching non deployed(ever) troops to word their aches and pains in a way that makes the "injury" appear related to combat.

If 1/3 of veterans today have PTSD, and less than 2/100 actually were exposed to traumatic actions...that doesn't add up either.

For the record, I don't believe in (so no, I didn't claim it) PTSD, especially not as an ailment treated with money.
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Old 28 May 2012, 18:35
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Originally Posted by Normex View Post
Seems like a lot of diagnosis from the "diagnosis community". My ears ring all the time too.
I don't see a single thing in your background saying you served in any capacity. Shut up.
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Old 28 May 2012, 20:04
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For the record, I don't believe in (so no, I didn't claim it) PTSD
Yeah. I used to bang a girl who "didn't believe in" PMS. Because it didn't affect her. So there's that.
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Old 28 May 2012, 20:13
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Yeah. I used to bang a girl who "didn't believe in" PMS. Because it didn't affect her. So there's that.
I certainly believe there are varying psychological effects that come with extreme danger. I will never deny that.

I dont believe (this is probably what I should have said first) that there are varying levels of PTSD that can be cured by different amounts of money. I don't believe that PTSD in a military setting can be caused by anything beyond combat, death, killing, etc. As in, the fear of deploying cannot cause such stress as to effect daily life.

I also believe that someone might have Post Traumatic Stress, but that if it doesn't hinder your ability to function, it is not a disorder.

Of course that's just my take on it.
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Old 28 May 2012, 20:33
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One of my friends ran.the Boston Marathon a couple months ago. he is a below tje knee amputee. by your reasoning he should not receive a check.
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Old 28 May 2012, 20:41
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One of my friends ran.the Boston Marathon a couple months ago. he is a below tje knee amputee. by your reasoning he should not receive a check.
What? No.

My reasoning would suggest that he should receive a check, and that it is fucked up for someone who isn't an amputee to demand the same check.

I never thought that the only disability that should be granted is combat related. I believe that all loss of limb, function, or permanent damage should be compensated based on severity.

I DO NOT believe that we should be giving MORE to individuals who insinuate or flat out lie that they are suffering from invisible disorders that are given to those who took part in combat, especially if those who are actually suffering are in dire need of help.

By your reasoning, everyone in that 50% of vets demanding disability are amputees.
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Old 28 May 2012, 20:42
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One of my friends ran.the Boston Marathon a couple months ago. he is a below tje knee amputee. by your reasoning he should not receive a check.
And to add, that is fucking awesome. Hats off to him, seriously.
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Old 28 May 2012, 21:06
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Originally Posted by Normex View Post
Seems like a lot of diagnosis from the "diagnosis community". My ears ring all the time too.


This is a sensitive subject around here as you can see. I will allow the thread to continue as long as it stays professional, but since the extent of YOUR service is limited to the Merchant Marines, I suggest that you tread lightly. My ears ring also, to the point that I will probably need hearing aids before I am 45, and I have never filed for any compensation whatsoever, nor will I. And I would guess that my ears ring for a very different reason than yours. As I said, tread lightly if you want to continue to enjoy this site.
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Old 28 May 2012, 21:27
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I agree that many people, especially in the current generation are abusing the system.

If you earned it, then by all means, get it. Many of us know people who are drastically different from who they were before the deployed. The system is designed to compensate and help them for their sacrifices.

My fear is that everyone and their brother thinks they deserve a claim now and this creates several problems:

1) Backlog. People who really deserve the claims are being delayed by people who don't.
2) If we abuse the system, it WILL be reduced or drastically changed.
3) Seems to create a weird sense of entitlement that should not be there.


Like I said... if your experiences or the abuses you have put on your body have changed your life in a way that deserves compensation, then get it. But for those who want the money, get a little integrity instead.
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Old 28 May 2012, 23:04
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Originally Posted by SOW_0331 View Post
And yet multiple statistics show that less than 2% of active military during the last two wars ever took part in exchange of fire with the enemy.

Less than 2%.

Fucking pathetic, some people used the military like welfare, then seek that same sugar when they leave.

And the worst part is how many knowingly use the image of mangled fighting men to insinuate they were part of something else, while the average civilian thinks every single service member is door kicking.

I hope theyre proud of themselves.
Thank you.

Are there people that may have serious PTSD? Maybe, I don't know. I can't speak to it because I don't feel that I do, but then there are others that experienced far worse things than I did. But with that said, if a person thinks they have PTSD simply because they carried a gun around for a year in a sandy place, fuck that and fuck them.

I don't get some people's thinking. People VOLUNTEER for service, just like any other job. You aren't immediately entitled to disability for it because "it's hard". You got paid to do a job, period. If something legitimate happened (blow out a knee, lost a leg, saw true combat and have issues, etc...) then by all means, disability is deserved. I have too many of my fellow service members tell me: "go to the VA and get disability for ____" or "you can get 10% automatically for ____" and "I'm getting X% because of (insert stupid reason here)".

I went to the VA for a while to try to get some help with some things that I believe to be caused by TBI. I was very clear that I just wanted to figure out what was wrong and if there was a way to make it better and was not interested in any compensation. In my opinion, they didn't think I was at all serious about it or that I was faking and just looking for them to tell me something I could use to file a claim. After getting what I felt was pretty shitty help and some BS comments, I decided I would deal with it and work through it on my own. I also would get a bill for every visit to the VA, likely because I didn't have a claim filed--even though I was told I wouldn't. I think the reason I got the level of help I did was because of all the people doing everything they can to pull every dime of compensation out of the VA they possibly can, whether they deserve it or not. And I also think the VA is operating in a way that encourages people to file claims. I just refuse to do it.

There are plenty of people that need assistance and all these fucks that go in for some BS reason just to get money make it harder for those who need it to get it (IMHO). This isn't meant as any disrespect to anyone that is receiving disability, only those that are getting it and know they had to make up some BS to get it.



ETA: Balls, you say if so much better.
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Old 28 May 2012, 23:22
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Originally Posted by TPT_1113 View Post
One of my friends ran.the Boston Marathon a couple months ago. he is a below tje knee amputee. by your reasoning he should not receive a check.
Unless he retired from the service, I would indeed say that he should not receive a check.

If he can run the Boston Marathon, please feel free to expand on how he is disabled in some way.

No doubt that $100K+ leg that he has for running, is in addition to the $28K+ leg that he has for walking / daily use. And to be sure he didn't have to pay for either. Nor did he pay for his prosthetist, his fittings, his surgery, his meds, his continued care for the same. He has in all likelihood been compensated to the tune of greater than $1M in medical care alone.

He has rehabilitated himself to the point where he can run the Boston Marathon. Please tell me what disability he now demonstrates that deserves continued monetary support?

He is an amputee. But it would appear that he has aptly demonstrated that he has overcome this condition and is no longer disabled.

If he worked for IBM, Morgan Stanley, ATT, or any other major organization...received an on the job injury that resulted in an amputation which the corporation covered all medical for, and then he claimed disability and was spied running the Boston Marathon - do you think that he would be sued for fraud and his disability check stopped? I do.
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Old 29 May 2012, 01:14
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Please tell me what disability he now demonstrates that deserves continued monetary support?

He is an amputee. But it would appear that he has aptly demonstrated that he has overcome this condition and is no longer disabled.
I agree and disagree with this. I agree that he may no longer be disabled because he can run.

However, with all due respect (and knowing that you have a very impressive medical background), I have a slightly different opinion. Here's why:
  1. He can run. But can he swim, climb, bike, make love to his wife, or any number of other things the same? Probably not quite.
  2. What is the price of a leg? So, he got an expensive replacement or two. Do you think that he would gladly trade his good, useful leg for a couple million dollars worth of prosthetics and healthcare? (And I'm not directing these at you in particular, sir).
  3. There is, without a doubt, an extreme amount of emotional and physical pain that comes with the loss of limb. He was serving and protecting his country, not working at IBM.

As I said, these are not directed at anyone, just airing a difference of opinion in this particular case and my reasons for holding that opinion. I think this creates a pretty good discussion topic, to be honest.
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Old 29 May 2012, 07:46
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I agree and disagree with this. I agree that he may no longer be disabled because he can run.

However, with all due respect (and knowing that you have a very impressive medical background), I have a slightly different opinion. Here's why:
  1. He can run. But can he swim, climb, bike, make love to his wife, or any number of other things the same? Probably not quite.
  2. What is the price of a leg? So, he got an expensive replacement or two. Do you think that he would gladly trade his good, useful leg for a couple million dollars worth of prosthetics and healthcare? (And I'm not directing these at you in particular, sir).
  3. There is, without a doubt, an extreme amount of emotional and physical pain that comes with the loss of limb. He was serving and protecting his country, not working at IBM.

As I said, these are not directed at anyone, just airing a difference of opinion in this particular case and my reasons for holding that opinion. I think this creates a pretty good discussion topic, to be honest.
Your point of view is noted. No hostilities taken.

That being said, your response has an emotional content to it (vs an objective one) that says he "deserves something more" because he lost his leg. You did in fact state that you agree he may no longer be disabled.

He volunteered for the military (a dangerous job, certainly so in the time of war) and all the job security, health care, education benefits etc that come with it. He was injured by someone other than the military (i.e. the enemy) so it wasn't outside his scope of work to have this happen to him (or any of us). His injury has been attended to and he has demonstrated his level of recovery by running the Boston marathon (and others I am sure in order to qualify). The primary purpose of a foot / leg is to ambulate. It appears that he does this quite well.

Were he a foot model, competitive climber/guide, etc...I would agree that his injury does indeed warrant a stipend to cover that gap.

The primary purpose of a disability PAYMENT is to assist in closing the gap between earnings you would have made were you not injured, and lesser monies you now earn DUE TO YOUR DISABILITY. It is not for "pain and suffering" unless there is a mental heath issue that need be addressed and this mental health issue then prevents someone from working in their environment.

There are a tremendous number of DISABLED veterans in our population. Veterans who NEED the monies that are being dolled out to individuals who "feel they deserve something more" simply because they served. Men and women who are unable to work either a full day or full week due to their unalterable condition. These are the men and women who need help with daily bills, home rebuilding to accommodate their appliances needed to get around, daily care givers, their families who have lost income (present and future) because their spouse can no longer function at more than a grade school level. SO MANY Veterans are in NEED.

While the military isn't IBM, it is still a choice to join the military.

It's good to support the men and women who serve. Yes it sucks that folks get hurt doing so. But there are other tangible benefits bestowed on all of us for our service to our country. I'd rather put disability monies towards those folks who are indeed disabled.
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Old 29 May 2012, 09:05
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My reasoning would suggest that he should receive a check, and that it is fucked up for someone who isn't an amputee to demand the same check.
Negative. Traumatic brain injuries have all rights to the same if diagnosed and documented. It affects me daily in regards to focus, logic, and executive functions.
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Old 29 May 2012, 09:18
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I certainly believe there are varying psychological effects that come with extreme danger. I will never deny that.

I dont believe (this is probably what I should have said first) that there are varying levels of PTSD that can be cured by different amounts of money. I don't believe that PTSD in a military setting can be caused by anything beyond combat, death, killing, etc. As in, the fear of deploying cannot cause such stress as to effect daily life.

I also believe that someone might have Post Traumatic Stress, but that if it doesn't hinder your ability to function, it is not a disorder.
Fair enough. I'm tired of seeing faggots who heard a mortar round hit their base once or saw some people get smoked on a Predator feed claim PTSD.

But there are guys who will get totally debilitated by witnessing events that have no effect on other dudes.

And one other thing I have noticed is that PTSD seems to be cumulative. It doesn't always have to be caused by one or a handful of horrific events, but months and months of little events like mortar barrages, firefights and near misses by IEDs over 3 and 4 deployments before a guy all of a sudden notices that he can't sleep right anymore and has anxiety responses in situations that shouldn't be causing them.

Not that that guy should get a huge payout for that, but having a set of frayed nerves, to go along with the fucked up back from all the assholish parachute jumps where the JM was too much of a pussy to cancel the jump in 30 Mph winds because the unit doesn't want to pay for the aircraft's fuel, and the shot knees from carrying a heavy pack filled with about 10 times as much shit as you should be carrying....it adds up to the guy deserving some compensation.

No compensation for PAC clerk who was all nervous and shit at Bagram.
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Old 29 May 2012, 09:34
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Negative. Traumatic brain injuries have all rights to the same if diagnosed and documented. It affects me daily in regards to focus, logic, and executive functions.
Absolutely. I meant that if someone doesn't have their leg amputated, then they don't get to claim that the ankle sprain they got at MCT rates the same compensation.

Also I think there are a lot of variables that should take be considered and currently are not, such as conditions of service. I don't like the idea of paying for disability for someone that got hurt from a drunk driving wreck while on active duty. But I digress.
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