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  #1  
Old 12 December 2017, 19:27
meatpaws meatpaws is offline
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Canít make this stuff up

A man who was killed by a deputy in Lauderdale Lakes is seen kicking and dragging another deputy moments before he's fatally shot in new body camera, cellphone and surveillance videos.

Iím all about deescalation but itís a little late when youíre on your back and the suspect has your leg. Then partner shoots perp instead of knuckling up. Just damn.

A colleague showed me this and stated the deputy on the ground must not have a strong ďwill to live.Ē

https://youtu.be/GAXlxrRF_6g
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Old 12 December 2017, 20:19
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The next time someone says my training scenarios are contrived, I'm pulling this one out.
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Old 12 December 2017, 20:26
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That was extremely painful and humiliating to watch.

That was not a lethal force encounter.

There should be some criminal issues with this one.
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Old 12 December 2017, 20:36
meatpaws meatpaws is offline
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Originally Posted by 34RX View Post
The next time someone says my training scenarios are contrived, I'm pulling this one out.
LMAO. Should be a great defense.
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Old 12 December 2017, 20:37
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Originally Posted by meatpaws View Post
A colleague showed me this and stated the deputy on the ground must not have a strong “will to live."
Seriously?
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Old 12 December 2017, 20:58
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Props to the idiot for taking it right to the two cops. He was bitch slapping them around. While that does deserve an old fashioned butt kicking by the cops in return, I don't think it should escalate to being shot. Easy to arm chair, but why TF didn't they tazer his ass?
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Old 12 December 2017, 21:00
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They did deploy tasers, but there still appears to be issues there. This will be a good one to watch judicially.
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Old 12 December 2017, 21:11
meatpaws meatpaws is offline
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Originally Posted by hawkdrver View Post
Seriously?
I didnít get if that was sarcasm or not?

He was pointing out that the deputy on the ground wasnít making too many efforts to get up or improve his defense besides swatting the assailant with his ASP and trying to negotiate with the guy. If ANYONE had the better reason to apply deadly force it was the first deputy who was compromised.

Waiting on the ground for backup to arrive while a perp has my foot isnít how I want to die.
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  #9  
Old 15 December 2017, 16:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
That was extremely painful and humiliating to watch.

That was not a lethal force encounter.

There should be some criminal issues with this one.
What a bunch of pussies. The suspect looked like he was having trouble even getting down the hall in the opening seconds of the confrontation. First officer fought to deploy taser. Shitty draw or malfunction in the holster; doesn't matter. Suspect is closing the distance. Go to something else.

Over reliance on tasers, not enough training or confidence in going hand to hand or using other intermediate weapons.

We are our own worst enemy sometimes.
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Old 15 December 2017, 16:21
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Originally Posted by meatpaws View Post
I didn’t get if that was sarcasm or not?

He was pointing out that the deputy on the ground wasn’t making too many efforts to get up or improve his defense besides swatting the assailant with his ASP and trying to negotiate with the guy. If ANYONE had the better reason to apply deadly force it was the first deputy who was compromised.

Waiting on the ground for backup to arrive while a perp has my foot isn’t how I want to die.
Yeah sorry, no sarcasm intended. Not sure what happened there but what I meant to do was agree with this:

Quote:
Waiting on the ground for backup to arrive while a perp has my foot isn’t how I want to die.
No LE experience but that was tough to watch.
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  #11  
Old 15 December 2017, 17:20
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A lot of people are getting shot these days because everyone is scared to death to beat suspects into compliance (the way cops used to be trained).

Tasers are supposed to solve every compliance problem these days. And, when they don't, there is usually an OODA loop until deadly force gets selected as the only other viable alternative.

My dinosaur opinion, anyway.
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Old 15 December 2017, 19:22
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I'm not a police officer.

I'd want to know what was found in the suspect's upcoming toxicology report...

I agree the officer on the ground could have done more; HOWEVER, I noticed the suspect didn't act aggressively when the officer didn't move. Playing devil's advocate, I'm wondering if the officer picked up on that, and tried verbiage one more time, while waiting for backup (that first went zooming past him at a low mach number...).

I also noticed the officer used verbiage, hand combat, taser, and impact weapon; to no effect. The responding officer walked into a shit show, had to start at guns and escalate from there.

The suspect CLEARLY didn't care what was aimed at him, had a cop in a bad position, and continued his assault on BOTH officers. Anyone notice the grunting and growling from the suspect?

I'm sad the suspect died, but I'm also mad because the suspect made the responding officer shoot him.
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Old 15 December 2017, 22:06
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I listened to it a couple times. Suspect sounded like an Island guy. . . .And at some point I thought he muttered something about a baby. The way Suspect was was farkin around perhaps he thought the Officer was hitting on his Missus?

Sounded like he tased him. Billowy shirt?
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Old 15 December 2017, 22:18
Stretch Stretch is offline
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The thing I don’t understand is why the officer entered the residence, even if he was invited...
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  #15  
Old 16 December 2017, 00:33
havok88 havok88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
A lot of people are getting shot these days because everyone is scared to death to beat suspects into compliance (the way cops used to be trained).

Tasers are supposed to solve every compliance problem these days. And, when they don't, there is usually an OODA loop until deadly force gets selected as the only other viable alternative.

My dinosaur opinion, anyway.
no, it doesn’t work that way at at all. Yo want to “beat suspects into compliance”, but what happens when that suspect whoops your ass? You’re going to pull out a gun and shoot them because you were in fear for your life. That mentality needs to go.

I’m not an LEO, but I I’m in favor of using tasers over fighting for both that reason, and for what I feel should be the obvious, that it’s not the officers job to decide the punishment.

Last edited by havok88; 16 December 2017 at 00:39.
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Old 16 December 2017, 04:25
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OK, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, granted, but why didn't Mr. Personality catch two center mass when he came charging out the door like that?
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  #17  
Old 16 December 2017, 04:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
That was extremely painful and humiliating to watch.

That was not a lethal force encounter.

There should be some criminal issues with this one.
Why? I'm not a LEO or close to it, but it looked like a clean shoot to me. What idiot charges a cop like that and doesn't expect to get shot?

If this was not a lethal force encounter, please, school me.
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  #18  
Old 16 December 2017, 11:35
ExSquid ExSquid is offline
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Havock:

I am going to have to disagree with you on the Taser. Despite what Taser would like you to believe, they are often ineffective. This has less to do with how the device works and more to do with an officer's ability to get two solid connections with both prongs. (Yes, I have been Tased and am well aware of their effectiveness on normal folks who get hit solidly with both prongs.) Good luck employing a Taser once the weather turns cool and everyone starts to put on extra layers of clothing. The other issue is the public is far more likely to get upset over the liberal use of Tasers than nightsticks and fists. Let's face it, public perception plays a huge part in how police conduct themselves, right, wrong, or indifferent.

x/S
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Old 16 December 2017, 11:54
havok88 havok88 is offline
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Originally Posted by ExSquid View Post
Havock:

I am going to have to disagree with you on the Taser. Despite what Taser would like you to believe, they are often ineffective. This has less to do with how the device works and more to do with an officer's ability to get two solid connections with both prongs. (Yes, I have been Tased and am well aware of their effectiveness on normal folks who get hit solidly with both prongs.) Good luck employing a Taser once the weather turns cool and everyone starts to put on extra layers of clothing. The other issue is the public is far more likely to get upset over the liberal use of Tasers than nightsticks and fists. Let's face it, public perception plays a huge part in how police conduct themselves, right, wrong, or indifferent.

x/S
I understand that. Youíll get no disagreement from me on those points. I was just saying for the reason of not requiring the officers to basically get into a brawl with the suspects beforehand knowing that they wonít be able to win.

As far as public perception, night sticks, fists, and boots gave us the LA riots, but there was silence when police tased someone for not showing ID that they never asked for.
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  #20  
Old 16 December 2017, 11:57
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Originally Posted by havok88 View Post
I understand that. Youíll get no disagreement from me on those points. I was just saying for the reason of not requiring the officers to basically get into a brawl with the suspects beforehand knowing that they wonít be able to win.

As far as public perception, night sticks, fists, and boots gave us the LA riots, but there was silence when police tased someone for not showing ID that they never asked for.
Haters will hate! One day it's good to taser someone. The next day...exact same scenario...they should have used physical force rather than a taser. People are fickle at best! There will never be a best answer that satisfies everyone, and in the end, it doesn't have to. It only has to meet the level of force that the jury hearing the trial says it had to meet.
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