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  #1  
Old 20 February 2015, 17:16
zmp zmp is offline
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Icon5 Nos Defions skull and arrows

I was having a spirited debate with some Team members regarding the "Nos Defions" skull and arrows emblem. Our confusion revolves around who uses (entitled to) the emblem. Most guys regrettably do not know the history of it and I feel a little gun shy about using it on a standard ODA. As I understand it, the symbol was originated during Project Blue Light out at Mott Lake. It has never been institutionalized by SF, but is a powerful symbol that invokes a state of mind. Does CIF regularly use it as a heritage right or is it acceptable for ODA Team guys to fly the flag? Any insight would be great.
~z
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Old 20 February 2015, 17:30
AKAPete AKAPete is offline
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Blue Light

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Originally Posted by zmp View Post
...Project Blue Light out at Mott Lake. ....
Talk about a blast from the past - Blue Light.

To put that in perspective - that was when all the line companies for 5th and 7th Groups were located east of Reilly Road and North of Gruber Road on Smoke Bomb Hill.
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Old 20 February 2015, 18:29
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That is my understanding. I still had guys on my team that had custom parts for their issue 45's.
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Old 20 February 2015, 20:10
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Accurate. But stop it, you're causing us old guys to have flash-backs
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  #5  
Old 20 February 2015, 22:10
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Damn, you guys are old.

I first ran across it during SOT training at the lake.
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Old 20 February 2015, 22:19
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Red face LOL!

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Originally Posted by MDH View Post
Damn, you guys are old.

I first ran across it during SOT training at the lake.
I only remember seeing "targets" that were good and/or bad guys.

Stay safe.
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Old 20 February 2015, 22:34
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Old days

In the "Old" days the 5th Group Isolation area was out at the west end of Ft Bragg and the 7th Group Isolation area was at Mott Lake.

Blue Light took over the Mott Lake compound and everything evolved from there.

Now it's just an asphalt driveway with a rusty guard shack and a FLS. All the building and other stuff is gone.
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Old 21 February 2015, 03:52
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Back in the day, post-Blue Light, it was appropriately displayed by graduates of the old SOT course. I was on a city team. We came back from Mott Lake with t-shirts.
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Old 21 February 2015, 04:13
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#Doyouevenoperatebro?
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Old 21 February 2015, 06:15
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Actually...I'm going to be the decenter here, even in the depth of knowledge here. The original use was in the OSS, hence why it is French. I read this term in a book about the OSS but I am no where near said book at this time.
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Old 21 February 2015, 09:32
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Dissenter?

Sorry, not trying to sharpshoot. Just trying to ensure that I understand what you mean.
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  #12  
Old 21 February 2015, 09:49
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The original nous defions that the SOT types used came into its own after mike bellinger drew it up. I used to have that old mott lake compound post 5th group. SGM Jakevenkos crew adopted it from belingers drawing. When I got there they had just started using the range 37 ranges and the cadre / students / classrooms still satyed at the mott lake area.

The nous defions emblem was everywhere but the originals where painted in the kitchen area (along with a full sized painting of Paul Poole - the stud that he was .

even when I first went there in 79? they used the nous defions logo on the best team plaques - I still have one from 1980. - they dropped the old 3 week course while i was there and the sfartietc course became the only course out there (13 weeks at the time) then we pulled in the SOTIC crew to the lake .

I still hate the day that they made us paint over the helicopter landing pad that was the nous defions because they linked the symbol to the nazi death head "tottenkopf" - it wasnt nazi it was OSS and french resistance - the old jedburgh crew have more on that ( I was involved in filming and archiving interviews with the old jedburgh crews with american montage films in NYC) - still havent figured what to do with that archive

I always thought it was a bad ass symbol and was perfect for the CQB / CT mission. I have had it on the side of every tactical and motorcyckle helmet i have ever owned.

I also have the web site nousdefions.com registerd to my company (anyone want it?)
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Old 21 February 2015, 09:51
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Originally Posted by magician View Post
Dissenter?

Sorry, not trying to sharpshoot. Just trying to ensure that I understand what you mean.
Roger. I really Rangered that up

Annnnnnnnd I reread the OP. I'll just go ahead and keep my cock beaters off the keyboard now. I stand corrected, the questions was about the graphics and not the term.
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Old 21 February 2015, 12:46
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I went to the second SOT class conducted at Mott Lake by the former BLUE LIGHT cadre. Literally still have the t-shirt w/ logo.

Teams have used that image for decades. Several ODAs in my last company/battalion had long incorporated it into their team patches (and as late as 2012 when I left for good). I assume they still do. It isn't the exclusive property of the CIFs or the Committee.

If your ODA wants to use it... drive on.
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Old 22 February 2015, 20:20
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Every guy that went to Mott Lake from1/75 back in the late 70's and early '80's came back with that t-shirt...
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Old 23 February 2015, 00:59
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Evidently, some skinny stud snuck into my house and swapped his for the one that fit me. I'd have to shed some years of silverback spread to fit into it.

Still a bad to the bone t-shirt. Then and now.
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Old 23 February 2015, 07:23
AKAPete AKAPete is offline
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Must have been....

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Originally Posted by Astronomy View Post
Evidently, some skinny stud snuck into my house and swapped his for the one that fit me. I'd have to shed some years of silverback spread to fit into it.

Still a bad to the bone t-shirt. Then and now.
Must have been the same guy who swapped out my UDT shorts!

Now he has the hot ticket - ND T-shirt and UDT shorts.
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Old 23 February 2015, 09:57
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This is a good thread. Not much said anymore about Blue Light and SOT out at Mott Lake, where it all started.

A/3/5 took over Mott Lake SOT tng from 2/5 in '86 and I was on the .45 committee. My TM actually had the sniper committee, but I got snagged by another TM to be on the .45 committee, I don't remember how that happened, but I didn't argue. Each TM ran a different committee. We ran the .45 range, the wharehouse, linear apparatus and michelin city, probably one or two more I can't remember..

Man, were those fun days....

It transitioned overe to SFARTIC (sp) or something like that late 86 early 87 when a guy from "you know where" came over and they changed the POI. Shortly after that SWC took it over.

ETA: To the OP, I guess you could use it, I doubt it's patented, but is was mostly used by the SOT TMs and by those who went through the tng. I suppose in a CIF Co it would be appropriate...

Before, it was a rotating responsibility amongst the GPs to run if for a yr or two.

II still have my Nouis Defion ceramic coffee mug to this day :) Unfortunetly the T shirts shrank and who knows where they are...
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Old 23 February 2015, 10:46
AKAPete AKAPete is offline
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Maritime Company

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Originally Posted by Glebo View Post
...A/3/5 took over Mott Lake SOT tng from 2/5 in '86 and I was on the .45 committee....
Yeah, missed out on that good deal when they formed the Maritime Company by putting 575 and 595 into B Company.

Another "Great Idea" that didn't work out so well.
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Old 23 February 2015, 12:39
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Lightbulb

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Originally Posted by Glebo View Post
This is a good thread. Not much said anymore about Blue Light and SOT out at Mott Lake, where it all started.

A/3/5 took over Mott Lake SOT tng from 2/5 in '86 and I was on the .45 committee. My TM actually had the sniper committee, but I got snagged by another TM to be on the .45 committee, I don't remember how that happened, but I didn't argue. Each TM ran a different committee. We ran the .45 range, the wharehouse, linear apparatus and michelin city, probably one or two more I can't remember..

Man, were those fun days....

It transitioned over to SFARTIC (sp) or something like that late 86 early 87 when a guy from "you know where" came over and they changed the POI. Shortly after that SWC took it over.

ETA: To the OP, I guess you could use it, I doubt it's patented, but is was mostly used by the SOT TMs and by those who went through the tng. I suppose in a CIF Co it would be appropriate...

Before, it was a rotating responsibility amongst the GPs to run if for a yr or two.

II still have my Nouis Defion ceramic coffee mug to this day :) Unfortunetly the T shirts shrank and who knows where they are...
I'm pretty sure SOT transitioned in the 90s to whatever they call it now. Our entire ODA attended after Desert Storm...

Stay safe.
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