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  #21  
Old 3 June 2018, 21:07
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Well shit, that's different then, he's a BAD guy.

256, hope your friend heals quickly. I also hope this guy raided did something more significant than some bullshit admin gun crime, like trafficking to shitheads or something. S/F....Ken M
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  #22  
Old 3 June 2018, 21:19
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
There's about a 0% chance of an arrest like that these days and the hand wringing public would be calling for heads and probably get them. Possibly black officers/white suspect but a sap or anything similar would be career suicide.
Easier to use a Mk19.

Speedy recovery.
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  #23  
Old 3 June 2018, 23:53
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Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
What about the "have someone smack him behind the ear with a blackjack while he's buying his Big Gulp at 7-11" option?
Did exactly this just a few weeks ago. Task Force, all plain clothes in non-standard, unmarked vehicles. House is too isolated to approach safely and make the arrest. Mobile surveillance to a convenience store once he left. When he came out we approached him in the parking lot cutting of his avenue to get back inside. One of my team mates literally got hit in the side of the head with the 64 oz thirst-buster the guy was holding giving the bad guy time to draw his concealed pistol and get off a couple of shots (that thankfully went wild) before he got himself killed.

We were still criticized about attempting the arrest in public. Some people will NEVER be satisfied about the chosen solution.
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  #24  
Old 4 June 2018, 00:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Did exactly this just a few weeks ago. Task Force, all plain clothes in non-standard, unmarked vehicles. House is too isolated to approach safely and make the arrest. Mobile surveillance to a convenience store once he left. When he came out we approached him in the parking lot cutting of his avenue to get back inside. One of my team mates literally got hit in the side of the head with the 64 oz thirst-buster the guy was holding giving the bad guy time to draw his concealed pistol and get off a couple of shots (that thankfully went wild) before he got himself killed.

We were still criticized about attempting the arrest in public. Some people will NEVER be satisfied about the chosen solution.
Good job Sir. I like to think I can tell the difference between police brutality and doing what it takes to get the job done. This was getting the job done.
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  #25  
Old 4 June 2018, 07:43
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The suspect was wanted for firearms violations; so it seems to me the LAST place I'd want to take him down would be in an open public area. If the suspect had a lick of sense, he'd know he was being stalked if the LEOs waited to grab him in public.

Unfortunately, I think the only way to go was what the SWAT did: go into to the suspect's place and pry him out old school.
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  #26  
Old 4 June 2018, 12:16
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I’m not going to question their tactics. I wasn’t there and I don’t know what was done, what wasn’t done, in what order, or what their reasons or time frames were. It is a good reminder however taking someone on their own turf puts them at the advantage, which unfortunately isn’t always up to us. My team will gas the ever loving shit out of a guy and let them marinade in it for a good long while, followed by other options not involving putting a live person inside. Entry is a last resort, but if it must be done then it must be done.
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  #27  
Old 4 June 2018, 13:34
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Prayers for a good outcome.
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  #28  
Old 4 June 2018, 14:33
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Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
My team will gas the ever loving shit out of a guy and let them marinade in it for a good long while, followed by other options not involving putting a live person inside. Entry is a last resort, but if it must be done then it must be done.
"Me 'rikey".
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  #29  
Old 4 June 2018, 15:13
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Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Mobile surveillance to a convenience store once he left. When he came out we approached him in the parking lot cutting of his avenue to get back inside. One of my team mates literally got hit in the side of the head with the 64 oz thirst-buster
We had this scenario with a guy but two of our rather large team mates in work clothes just straight up tackled him while he was filling up a Big Gulp. Other dudes immediately ran in the store in POLICE gear to make it clear what was happening. No guns drawn and no drama other than a big lump on the bad guys head. Funny thing was it was in the ghetto and half the people in the store just kept shopping as if nothing happened. Other half ran out and jumped in cars and hauled ass. Probably the ones holding.
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  #30  
Old 4 June 2018, 15:29
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JR was moved from critical to serious condition. I would like to awnswer your questions, but as you all know the invest is ongoing. Once it’s complete I would be more than happy to share the good and bad of this situation so we can all get better. I will share this: taking him in the open is a great idea and we’ve done it before, but sometimes isn’t possible. Thank you for all the insight, still no visitors.
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  #31  
Old 4 June 2018, 15:33
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Glad to hear there was some improvement in his condition. Continuing to pray for more!
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  #32  
Old 4 June 2018, 15:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
JR was moved from critical to serious condition. I would like to awnswer your questions, but as you all know the invest is ongoing. Once itís complete I would be more than happy to share the good and bad of this situation so we can all get better. I will share this: taking him in the open is a great idea and weíve done it before, but sometimes isnít possible. Thank you for all the insight, still no visitors.
Buddy I wouldnít worry about answering anything right now. We arenít second guessing, just talking. Glad to hear heís improving, just take care of your boy and let him know that others are thinking of him as well.
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  #33  
Old 4 June 2018, 15:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgleason View Post
We had this scenario with a guy but two of our rather large team mates in work clothes just straight up tackled him while he was filling up a Big Gulp. Other dudes immediately ran in the store in POLICE gear to make it clear what was happening. No guns drawn and no drama other than a big lump on the bad guys head. Funny thing was it was in the ghetto and half the people in the store just kept shopping as if nothing happened. Other half ran out and jumped in cars and hauled ass. Probably the ones holding.

Sounds like my preferred technique.

If the guy is that dangerous, and you have the time available, you run technical and/or physical surveillance, build a Pattern of Life, figure out where he has the least advantage and you have the most advantage. It could be as simple as bumper locking him at a red light or tackling him in the 7-11 as said above. Dynamic Entry on his home gives him all the advantages of preparation, access to weapons, failed breach, funneling you, booby traps, escape routes, hostages and the list goes on. The USMS has this shit down to a science. Bangers and rams are fun, until they're not, and in my opinion should normally be the last option. If time and circumstance allow, stack the deck in your own favor.
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  #34  
Old 4 June 2018, 15:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
Buddy I wouldnít worry about answering anything right now. We arenít second guessing, just talking. Glad to hear heís improving, just take care of your boy and let him know that others are thinking of him as well.
Yep. Glad he is alive and hope he is better soon.
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  #35  
Old 4 June 2018, 15:52
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Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
Iím not going to question their tactics. I wasnít there and I donít know what was done, what wasnít done, in what order, or what their reasons or time frames were.
This^^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
JR was moved from critical to serious condition.
Good. Little victories.
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  #36  
Old 4 June 2018, 17:37
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Situations like this are why explosively breaching through an exterior wall and using multiple breach points was invented. Unfortunately that is not always an option either. Sometimes you get served a shit sandwich and you just have to take a bite. I will say this though, your friend is lucky this happened today and not 15yrs ago. The shit that I have seen guys at work recover from is amazing. Guys that probably should not be able to walk and talk due to their injuries are make outstanding recoveries and doing amazing things. The War on Terrorism has been a boon to the medical community and its ability to save and treat trauma victims. Hopefully your buddy gets the treatment he needs and makes a speedy and full recovery.

x/S
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  #37  
Old 4 June 2018, 18:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
JR was moved from critical to serious condition.
Wishing your teammate the best in his recovery.
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  #38  
Old 4 June 2018, 18:34
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Prayers out for his health and recovery.
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  #39  
Old 4 June 2018, 18:47
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Your friend stays in our thoughts, as do all those who risk their life so we can enjoy ours.

Stay safe.
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  #40  
Old 5 June 2018, 21:01
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Prayers out brother.
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