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Old 15 December 2018, 14:40
Berndernald Berndernald is offline
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Barrelman Hoist

Howdy Ė

Does anyone know how or why this hoist technique gained the name "Barrelman"? If you google the word barrelman you'll find that the term is associated with a number of different things (use caution doing an image search!) . . .

I enjoy learning the origins of terms. Thought someone here might have a definitive answer for this one.

Thanks for your time.

Ė Bernd
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Old 18 December 2018, 18:05
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Old 25 December 2018, 00:11
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What's more important is asking....why do the barrelman hoist at all?
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Old 25 December 2018, 00:15
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What's more important is asking....why do the barrelman hoist at all?
Skis
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Old 25 December 2018, 02:43
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Skis
For when you have skis?
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Old 25 December 2018, 03:16
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For when you have skis?
For when the helicopter is equipped with them. Allows the PJ to directly control the stokes litter and keep it from banging into the ski. Works well without skis too.

I couldn't find a picture with a stokes but you get the idea. Technically hooking directly into the hook with a climbing harness, sling, and carabiner with or without a stokes is a barrelman, but most of the time I've heard the term used, it's in reference to hoisting with a stokes.


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Originally Posted by bugeater View Post
What's more important is asking....why do the barrelman hoist at all?
Out of curiosity, as opposed to what?
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Old 25 December 2018, 09:03
Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is offline
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What's more important is asking....why do the barrelman hoist at all?
We use it whenever we're raising or lowering a package that we don't want banged around; personnel in a stokes or sked, boxes of sensitive materials, etc. Having a man ride up with the package allows him to work it around obstacles and such. For people, when you're the one strapped to a backboard and in a stokes litter, there's a lot of comfort to be had with someone riding up with you.

No, I don't know why the term is called barrelman.
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Old 25 December 2018, 11:33
Dogwelder Dogwelder is offline
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Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
We use it whenever we're raising or lowering a package that we don't want banged around; personnel in a stokes or sked, boxes of sensitive materials, etc. Having a man ride up with the package allows him to work it around obstacles and such. For people, when you're the one strapped to a backboard and in a stokes litter, there's a lot of comfort to be had with someone riding up with you.

No, I don't know why the term is called barrelman.
Riding up also ensures that your crew chief isnít struggling alone to get a very heavy and awkward load into the aircraft. Plus there is the question of who is running the TAG Line on the SKED.
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Old 25 December 2018, 12:08
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Skis makes a lot of sense. A really senior guy was relating recently barrelman plus tag line is over kill and an ass-pain. Also that originally the intent was that the medic was there in case of complication/crash on the ride up, but sending the medic up first then hoisting the sked w a tagline can be easier.
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Old 25 December 2018, 12:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
We use it whenever we're raising or lowering a package that we don't want banged around; personnel in a stokes or sked, boxes of sensitive materials, etc. Having a man ride up with the package allows him to work it around obstacles and such. For people, when you're the one strapped to a backboard and in a stokes litter, there's a lot of comfort to be had with someone riding up with you.

No, I don't know why the term is called barrelman.
SOP for high-angle raise/lower, fending off the cliff-face. I always thought the name referenced stevedores riding the casks/load through sail rigging, deck hatches, etc.

Back in my lane.
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Old 25 December 2018, 13:31
Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is offline
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Riding up also ensures that your crew chief isnít struggling alone to get a very heavy and awkward load into the aircraft. Plus there is the question of who is running the TAG Line on the SKED.
IME, sometimes tag lines can be a real PITA, getting snagged on corners or when there's an overhang up top.
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Old 25 December 2018, 14:22
Rotor Strike please Rotor Strike please is offline
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Originally Posted by bugeater View Post
Skis makes a lot of sense. A really senior guy was relating recently barrelman plus tag line is over kill and an ass-pain. Also that originally the intent was that the medic was there in case of complication/crash on the ride up, but sending the medic up first then hoisting the sked w a tagline can be easier.
Taglines work well in some cases, but in a tactical environment, they are time consuming when you donít have time to burn. Other than hoists to ships and cliff faces (high angle), we rarely, if ever, used the tagline.
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Old 26 December 2018, 12:46
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Tagline are to make sure you don't get caught on stuff (ship antennas) and to make sure the bodies you may have in the litter. I had 6 bodies in 2 body bags and chose not to use a tagline in a tactical environment. 3 hours later we found all the body parts.

Who's the senior guy that said they are a waste of time? Never take anything out of the toolbox. Uneven terrain with helo rotor wash? Never gonna know if and when the spins come. Barrelmen would all be situationally dependent. Look up operation Bulldogbite. Good read
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Old 28 December 2018, 14:30
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Tagline are to make sure you don't get caught on stuff (ship antennas) and to make sure the bodies you may have in the litter. I had 6 bodies in 2 body bags and chose not to use a tagline in a tactical environment. 3 hours later we found all the body parts.

Who's the senior guy that said they are a waste of time? Never take anything out of the toolbox. Uneven terrain with helo rotor wash? Never gonna know if and when the spins come. Barrelmen would all be situationally dependent. Look up operation Bulldogbite. Good read
All of the options makes sense. Thank you for the knowledge.

Formerly Gunny Chris was educating me about it, sorry I said waste of time, that's me misspeaking. I think he was articulating that there isn't much you can do medically while hoisting, but I can speak to the hoisting w someone while in a stokes/sked is nice for the 'patient.'

Funny you mention Bulldog Bite, Koa just gave us a brief in it a couple months ago, incredible work by the men. I need to dig deeper into it.
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Old 29 December 2018, 11:19
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  #16  
Old 29 December 2018, 22:14
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
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Word origins...

First, apologies to the PJs for stepping out of my lane...

I don't know the answer for sure to where the name comes from but like you I enjoy finding the origins of terms. I'm finding three different things out as I dive through the old books on Google.

1. It doesn't seem to exist as a fixed term ["barrelman hoist"] before the 2000s, at least in what I've been able to find yet. However, I see that USAF rescuers working the litter in a rescue are referred to as the barrelman.

2. However, "acting as a barrelman" in reference to managing a hoist and belaying operation for a rescue of an injured climber seems to have been a regular term as late as 1969. I found the phrasing in a 1969 publication by the American Alpine Club, where someone acted as a barrelman to an injured climber while someone else lowered the injured party. It must have been a term that the climbing community understood then, for it is not used with any other explanation of the technique--the reader would have known what it was and that it was not an unusual act.

3. The barrelman was a particular kind of longshoreman or warehouse worker who could manipulate one of these while moving it around into its exact desire position--around obstacles, and into position with the necessary parts showing (like the bung). That could include hoisting it, but also the flipping it upright. A skill that we don't see much used anymore except in the wine and spirits world.

Lastly, I should note that the sailor in the crow's nest on a ship was the barrelman, so perhaps something in the early helicopter community picked up on that idea of the guy riding the hoist was the barrelman up or down--but I don't think this one is as plausible an origin.

Back to my lane...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berndernald View Post
Howdy –

Does anyone know how or why this hoist technique gained the name "Barrelman"? If you google the word barrelman you'll find that the term is associated with a number of different things (use caution doing an image search!) . . .

I enjoy learning the origins of terms. Thought someone here might have a definitive answer for this one.

Thanks for your time.

– Bernd

Last edited by Armitage12; 29 December 2018 at 22:20. Reason: Kept finding more
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