SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > Law Enforcement

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 24 April 2018, 08:25
Maverick's Avatar
Maverick Maverick is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
One of our guys was sporting a Craft Industries skull, another was rocking an infidel patch. No place in Law Enforcement for that. Not a fan of the “us vs them” mentally in LE, doesn’t help one bit with all the BS press our profession is getting these days.
They rocking the "fuk you" ejection port covers as well?
__________________
"Improving team morale, one compliment at a time."
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 24 April 2018, 08:54
256's Avatar
256 256 is offline
Navigating
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
They rocking the "fuk you" ejection port covers as well?
All SOF guys have those, sooo yeah! It's easier to do that than run a mile or two once in a while.
__________________
Kiowas are small, carrying just two people; they fly so low the two flying soldiers are practically infantrymen.

- Excerpt from Gates of Fire, Michael Yon
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 24 April 2018, 09:12
GPC's Avatar
GPC GPC is offline
Bitter old man.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LOFD
Posts: 5,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Attachment 36832

Tell me about it...
Isn't that the CG SMU that Costa commanded?
__________________
Steel Rain Brings The Pain!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 24 April 2018, 10:21
Polypro's Avatar
Polypro Polypro is offline
BTDT
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: A Noisy Bar In Avalon
Posts: 12,771
My opinion - Blue clothing, SWAT lettering, and whatever logo your employing agency has. If you don't like that uniform, you should have joined the ARMY or MARINES, instead of the POLICE.

I would think NOT looking like an occupying military would be high on the list when you're trying to get the public on your side.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 24 April 2018, 10:26
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
...when you're trying to get the public on your side.
A good percentage of law enforcement aren't too concerned about having the public on their side. Depending on where a particular cop works, the public that particular cop deals with may not be the sort of folks you want on your side.
__________________
Life’s barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 24 April 2018, 10:28
MixedLoad's Avatar
MixedLoad MixedLoad is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NORCAL
Posts: 8,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC View Post
Isn't that the CG SMU that Costa commanded?
Good crossthread points. *Hat tip*
__________________
“Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re"

"Operator much like rock and roll, is dead." - ClearedHot
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 24 April 2018, 10:32
MixedLoad's Avatar
MixedLoad MixedLoad is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NORCAL
Posts: 8,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
A good percentage of law enforcement aren't too concerned about having the public on their side. Depending on where a particular cop works, the public that particular cop deals with may not be the sort of folks you want on your side.
I find that kinda concerning. The other day I saw a SWAT competition picture and it no shit looked like a SOF convention.

Then the best part was that 3/75 had sent a team there for some reason and I commented that they're the only ones who should be wearing M/C etc. The Coperators apparently did not agree and the butthurt was epic.
__________________
“Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re"

"Operator much like rock and roll, is dead." - ClearedHot
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 24 April 2018, 10:51
256's Avatar
256 256 is offline
Navigating
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
I find that kinda concerning. The other day I saw a SWAT competition picture and it no shit looked like a SOF convention.

Then the best part was that 3/75 had sent a team there for some reason and I commented that they're the only ones who should be wearing M/C etc. The Coperators apparently did not agree and the butthurt was epic.
I know what you’re saying. What if you were on an agency team where dense wooded areas were a concern, the potential for prison escapes is there (has happened many times), and drug homes/labs are in rural townships? As a citizen of a county like that, would you approve of teams utilizing woodland/MC uniforms? Not defending either, just curious of your opinion.

IMO, I firmly believe that the city LEOs teams should be rocking black/blue uniforms. But should have the flexibility to utilize whatever they need to be safe, camouflage being one way. I also think when they execute taskings they should take the time to explain what they are doing to the people living in the area when such taskings are complete. You don’t have to give out any intel. It’s as simple as, “Sir, we’re in your neighborhood knocking on Mike Smith’s door because he deals drugs.” Simple shit like that goes a long, long way in building good relationships. It’s their neighborhood after all and they know way more about it than cops think they know.. Just my 2 cents.
__________________
Kiowas are small, carrying just two people; they fly so low the two flying soldiers are practically infantrymen.

- Excerpt from Gates of Fire, Michael Yon
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 24 April 2018, 11:02
MixedLoad's Avatar
MixedLoad MixedLoad is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NORCAL
Posts: 8,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
I know what you’re saying. What if you were on an agency team where dense wooded areas were a concern, the potential for prison escapes is there (has happened many times), and drug homes/labs are in rural townships? As a citizen of a county like that, would you approve of teams utilizing woodland/MC uniforms? Not defending either, just curious of your opinion.
Yes, 100%. I think that uniform should be dictated by the environment, not what the "cool guys wear".

Quote:
... I also think when they execute taskings they should take the time to explain what they are doing to the people living in the area when such taskings are complete. You don’t have to give out any intel. It’s as simple as, “Sir, we’re in your neighborhood knocking on Mike Smith’s door because he deals drugs.” Simple shit like that goes a long, long way in building good relationships. It’s their neighborhood after all and they know way more about it than cops think they know.. Just my 2 cents.
Agreed. The "us vs them" and "Just make it home safe tonight" or my absolute favorite "the civilians" attitude is terribly detrimental to a functional relationship.

I'm a stonecold realist and have no issues whatsoever giving LE the tools they need to do their jobs and to be on equal footing with the criminals.

But you just have to peruse social media to see the clownshow it's turned into. The gear doesn't make the professional.
__________________
“Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re"

"Operator much like rock and roll, is dead." - ClearedHot
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 24 April 2018, 11:05
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
I find that kinda concerning.
This is not how I wish things were, or how things should be. This is how things are. When I was a cop, I worked in four very different areas. Two of those areas had a very high crime rate, and very rarely did I encounter or interact with upstanding members of the public. The other two areas were low crime, and I regularly interacted with the general, i.e. non-criminal public. My level of concern for the general public's perception of me had a lot to do with where I worked at any given time.

As far as cops dressing like soldiers, I was never a SWAT guy, and never wanted to be a SWAT guy. I was a former SF and Rgr RGT beat cop and detective that gave the "SWAT operator crews" no small amount of shit for looking so cool.
__________________
Life’s barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 24 April 2018, 11:18
CV's Avatar
CV CV is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: US
Posts: 7,571
What was the impetus/event that perpetrated the blending of Law Enforcement and Military-based Special Operations? Meaning, there was a clear difference at one point in terms of optics and gear. I'm just curious what caused that melding? The War on Drugs in the 80s?
__________________
It's a hipster filter. Keeps your kind out. -Jimbo
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 24 April 2018, 11:20
Agoge Agoge is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 7,071
LE is LE and that is all it will ever be. The military is what it is and will never be anything else. If you want to look like the military, join it. If not, don't pose like them. I have kicked in 100's of doors without dressing like I did in the military. My uniform never made the difference in my deciding to make certain actions. Those that want to act like they are in the military when they are around me, get a dose of my opinion. They can take it or leave as I really don't care, but they will be called a clown or poser -- whichever is appropriate at the moment.

I understand the use of various uniforms for certain environments and certain "missions." But, that still doesn't provide any reasoning to act like or consider yourself to be an "operator".

As to the us vs. them mentality, it has nothing to do with that...they do it because they think it makes them look tough and operator'ish while at the same time helping them to feel they are in the cool military.

Pretty simple really....
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 24 April 2018, 11:21
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by CV View Post
What was the impetus/event that perpetrated the blending of Law Enforcement and Military-based Special Operations? Meaning, there was a clear difference at one point in terms of optics and gear. I'm just curious what caused that melding? The War on Drugs in the 80s?
If you want to point to a very specific event, then the SLA shootout with LAPD on May 17, 1974 started it.
__________________
Life’s barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 24 April 2018, 13:10
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
My opinion - Blue clothing, SWAT lettering, and whatever logo your employing agency has. If you don't like that uniform, you should have joined the ARMY or MARINES, instead of the POLICE.

I would think NOT looking like an occupying military would be high on the list when you're trying to get the public on your side.
I agree, and I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of SWAT teams get second-hand DRMO gear--including cammies--so they all look like a mish-mash of unidentifiable military units.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 24 April 2018, 14:10
leopardprey's Avatar
leopardprey leopardprey is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 11,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
My opinion - Blue clothing, SWAT lettering, and whatever logo your employing agency has. If you don't like that uniform, you should have joined the ARMY or MARINES, instead of the POLICE.

I would think NOT looking like an occupying military would be high on the list when you're trying to get the public on your side.
This x2.

And if the rest of the citizenry is not allowed to own it, I.e. Firearms and magazines, then SWAT cops should not be allowed to also possess. 1*
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Look Sharp, Act Sharp, Be Sharp - But don't cut yourself!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 24 April 2018, 14:32
The Fat Guy's Avatar
The Fat Guy The Fat Guy is offline
The Sagacious One
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pushing string down the hall
Posts: 13,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Attachment 36832

Tell me about it...
You guys are just afraid they are gonna start writing books.. Yea, that just happened....
__________________
No one will take better care of us, than us: Suicide Hotline: 1-800-273-8255
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 24 April 2018, 14:48
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,682
I was a medic on two separate tactical teams, two separate departments. On one we were issued MARPAT FROG (from DRMO and surplus), cool-guy helmets with mounted lights, the latest in body armor, MP5s (before we went to Mk18s, then back to M4s). The team leader would yell out--yell out--"Oscar mike" every time we moved. It was as military as one could get without saying the oath.

On the other, it was a laid-back atmosphere, M4s, dark-blue BDU-type utilities. Very different vibe. Take off the blouse and the tactical gear, you didn't look too dissimilar from most of the other cops.

That second group, the outcomes were the same, the public perception I think better, and was pro-public. The first borderlined on anti-cop because they even fostered a "better than you" attitude in the department. The public hated it when they were called out.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 24 April 2018, 14:55
AZ5326's Avatar
AZ5326 AZ5326 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
You guys are just afraid they are gonna start writing books.. Yea, that just happened....
Dick. I'm going to flip the script and write a COP book when I'm done with this career. Lol!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 24 April 2018, 15:20
256's Avatar
256 256 is offline
Navigating
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 360
All good points. I was unaware of the demands of LE when I went to the Police Academy. Demands I didn't even understand; LARGE budget constraints (which affects everything) forcing you to pay for your training to stay ahead. Reading, I've never read so much in my life. Honestly, it was something I reluctantly got into because I couldn't find a job after I ETSed and didn't bring a bunch of "marketable" job qualities to the table. I'm ashamed (extremely ashamed) to say this now, but I looked down on the profession a little bit.

There has to be a balance in police work of "Tactical-Timmy" donning every piece of Crye gear he can buy with this year's clothing allowance and being a Law Enforcement professional. It's difficult because at least in Iraq/Afghanistan you could stay, "I know the enemy is going to hit us while we're in Dura today at some point, when is it going to come?" instead of, "is the real fight of my life ever going to come?" Maybe it's just me, but that's a complicated situation and a tough one to be prepared for. During my very little combat experience, I had all the soldiering tools that we talk about above (vest, mags, helmet and backing of the US Armed Forces) and 30 other buddies with all their soldiering tools to fight the fight we KNEW was coming. In LE (I failed to see this before) we have to prepare all the time for the fight that might NEVER come, and we might have to fight it alone.

So IMO, find the balance. If tomorrow we all knew when we went to work that we would be responding to Pulse Night Club, San Bernardino attack, Murder of Police in Dallas, LA bank robbery, and name ten more incidents I think we'd all "turtle up" and bring all our cool guy stuff. I put that stuff in my Police car every day, it's annoying but I know the day I don't I'll wish that I had.
__________________
Kiowas are small, carrying just two people; they fly so low the two flying soldiers are practically infantrymen.

- Excerpt from Gates of Fire, Michael Yon
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 24 April 2018, 15:36
leopardprey's Avatar
leopardprey leopardprey is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 11,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ5326 View Post
Dick. I'm going to flip the script and write a COP book when I'm done with this career. Lol!
Probably will still have a big ass Trident on the cover.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Look Sharp, Act Sharp, Be Sharp - But don't cut yourself!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:48.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
© SOCNET 1996-2018