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  #61  
Old 20 July 2017, 19:10
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I still think it was a straight up negligent discharge. Officer Noor's career is done; and he did the common sense thing to do: get a lawyer and do what he says.

For me, the only interesting item of business left is whether or not charges will be filed against Mr. Noor.
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  #62  
Old 20 July 2017, 20:01
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Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
I still think it was a straight up negligent discharge. Officer Noor's career is done; and he did the common sense thing to do: get a lawyer and do what he says.

For me, the only interesting item of business left is whether or not charges will be filed against Mr. Noor.
This is almost certainly what happened. Of course several deliberate steps had to be taken before it was possible.
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  #63  
Old 20 July 2017, 20:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
I still think it was a straight up negligent discharge. Officer Noor's career is done; and he did the common sense thing to do: get a lawyer and do what he says.

For me, the only interesting item of business left is whether or not charges will be filed against Mr. Noor.
So much for the City's Poster Child "Diversity" hire.

Now if he was hired, due to the same standards as were equally applied and he fairly competed against all other applicants, then more power to him. And if he was held to the same training standards. But, the word I am getting is standards were lowered, to attract and hire a more "Diverse" crowd. And then he was paraded about when he was hired. So has now come back to bite the city in the ass.

And lets be honest, if this had been a 40 year old black lady and the Cop who had the ND that shot her had been white, there would be 24/7 media coverage to the extreme and riots in the street.

A tragedy all around though and RIP.

Kind of like when my recent a couple of years ago, went out of the way to hire a female firefighter ( and word to be fact is that she was passed through hurdles others were not, in order to hire a female to show "Diversity"). And then the City and the local news had big stories, announcements on her. Mayor coming out and making public statements. Women's groups applauding. Parading her as the first female hired and how the Fire Dept needs to have many more females, to represent our mixed gender population. Then after just several months on the job, she is busted and arrested for shoplifting and fired.

Just hire the best applicants, train them right. Treat all equally.
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  #64  
Old 20 July 2017, 20:42
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So much for the City's Poster Child "Diversity" hire.

Now if he was hired, due to the same standards as were equally applied and he fairly competed against all other applicants, then more power to him. And if he was held to the same training standards. But, the word I am getting is standards were lowered, to attract and hire a more "Diverse" crowd. And then he was paraded about when he was hired. So has now come back to bite the city in the ass.

Just hire the best applicants, train them right. Treat all equally.
Funny I posted something very similar and was called a racist! (Not here)
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  #65  
Old 20 July 2017, 21:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
For me, the only interesting item of business left is whether or not charges will be filed against Mr. Noor.
No charges and there will be a settlement real quick...
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  #66  
Old 21 July 2017, 11:18
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Issueing a Somalian a firearm with authority to use it

Is like giving a job to a serial arsonist in the "Diamond Match Factory"

Don't be surprised when ...
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  #67  
Old 21 July 2017, 15:33
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Well, the Chief just tossed the Officer out of the boat.

http://www.kcra.com/article/chief-au...o-die/10338702
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  #68  
Old 21 July 2017, 18:03
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Some comments based on the above:

1 -
Quote:
Nobody's covering up anything. His partner has given a full accounting of what happened. The state agency is investigating. Nobody can compel Noor or whatever his name is to incriminate himself. He has the same rights as any other citizen accused of a crime.
It is interesting to read the International Association of Chiefs of Police standards for Officer Involved Shootings. Copy attached. One of the recommendations is that the officer, who has undergone a traumatic experience, should be allowed "at least one sleep cycle" before being questioned.

(An aside: I wish my defendants who are involved in "traumatic shooting events" would be allowed one sleep cycle before being questioned).

2 - While each law enforcement organization will have its own standards for body cams, none of which are standardized at this point, dash cams are fairly standardized into the following:

The camera automatically starts recording whenever the blue lights come on, or whenever the siren comes on, or whenever the officer presses the "RECORD" button.

So unless the officers responded to the 911 call with blue lights (unlikely) or a siren (even more unlikely) there would be no recording from the dash cam unless the officer decided there were events of evidentiary nature taking place and made the deliberate decision to turn it on. If it is an unlit alley, with limited field of view, they may have decided -- or "not yet decided" -- to manually turn on the dash camera.

My recommendation to all officers: TURN IT ON! It will at least capture the audio.

3 - The Chief was away on a Colorado hiking trip, where she said she had limited cell phone service. In her absence, I understand that the posture of a politically charged case would cause all involved to clam up until she returned.

4 - One rendering was that the shot was fired "through the driver officer's door" (inside to outside) by the passenger officer. Another was that the shot was fired by the passenger officer through the driver's window (inside to outside) ... which makes no sense if the driver is talking to the victim.

A lot of unanswered questions, not made better by the stonewalling of the police in the absence of the Chief.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Officer Involved Shooting.pdf (208.5 KB, 4 views)
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  #69  
Old 21 July 2017, 18:46
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Axon (formerly TASER Int'l) has previously announced a sensor add-on to holsters that will activate all Axon cameras in a 30-foot radius when the weapon is drawn. The system can tie into vehicle systems as well, and be triggered by lights, sirens, or door opening as well as weapon draw.

Axon link
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  #70  
Old 21 July 2017, 19:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expatmedic View Post
Well, the Chief just tossed the Officer out of the boat.

http://www.kcra.com/article/chief-au...o-die/10338702
The Chief herself just go axed by the Mayor.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chief-aus...050309213.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB View Post

3 - The Chief was away on a Colorado hiking trip, where she said she had limited cell phone service. In her absence, I understand that the posture of a politically charged case would cause all involved to clam up until she returned.

A lot of unanswered questions, not made better by the stonewalling of the police in the absence of the Chief.
Any higher up other than the Chief considering answering any questions about a politically charged case like this one, basically a huge press case, should follow the same maxim as for when you're in the military and the President is coming to your post for a visit.

The place you want to be is anywhere else (instead of in front of a microphone).
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Last edited by Spinner; 21 July 2017 at 19:53.
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  #71  
Old 21 July 2017, 21:35
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...politically charged case...
The above quoted portion of your post is the problem. There shouldn't be politically charged cases. There is already too much politics in LE...there is no need for any more.
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  #72  
Old 21 July 2017, 21:39
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Based on the last few posts, make the C.O.P. position elected and not appointed, like county Sheriff's. Let the voters decide what they want.
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  #73  
Old 21 July 2017, 22:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimo View Post
This is not a dig on LEOs, just an observation. I have noticed that since most departments started requiring a college degree that there was a shift in the type/personality of a large amount of officers. They seem to have more book/analytical smarts as opposed to common sense/street smarts.
Many lack the ability to read people and respond in a way to deescalte a situation. Many now believe that if they give someone an order, whatever that order might be, you are required to obey them without question. Lastly I notice that many officers are very apprehensive/afraid to go hands on with a suspect and instead draw their weapon, leaving little options should the situation escalate.
Again I am not painting all officers with that brush. There are many great ones that I have worked with. But as much as the good officers try and mold the younger officers their are some skills that can't be taught.
This is a problem in a lot of agencies.
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  #74  
Old 21 July 2017, 22:33
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Originally Posted by Expatmedic View Post
Based on the last few posts, make the C.O.P. position elected and not appointed, like county Sheriff's. Let the voters decide what they want.
That's never going to happen. Local city councils, city managers, and county boards like the ability to hire and fire chiefs at their discretion. A chief decides he's not going to tow the line, says of does something they don't like, they're out. Not so with an elected official.
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  #75  
Old 21 July 2017, 22:34
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Originally Posted by Expatmedic View Post
Based on the last few posts, make the C.O.P. position elected and not appointed, like county Sheriff's. Let the voters decide what they want.
Personally, from my perspective, I prefer appointed Chiefs over elected due to their accountability to a Mayor and board.
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  #76  
Old 21 July 2017, 23:04
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I worked for an appointed Chief at one department and an elected Sheriff at another. There are pros/cons of each. On the whole, I prefer working for an elected official. Shit gets political both ways, but I prefer the scenario where the political accountability is to the voters, not some city manager.
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  #77  
Old 22 July 2017, 03:01
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Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
Personally, from my perspective, I prefer appointed Chiefs over elected due to their accountability to a Mayor and board.
From the perspective of a citizen, i prefer an elected sheriff, accountable to the voters. We have a county sheriff as our CLEO, and I have found him to be very responsive to what the voters want, not what the county supervisors want.
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  #78  
Old 22 July 2017, 03:33
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The news conference of the Mayor announcing the firing(oh I mean) accepting the resignation of the Chief evolved into something I fear that may spread. It appears there were no Police Officers during the press conference. Tough times ahead for Minneapolis.
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  #79  
Old 22 July 2017, 08:35
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Originally Posted by fy0834 View Post
Issueing a Somalian a firearm with authority to use it

Is like giving a job to a serial arsonist in the "Diamond Match Factory"

Don't be surprised when ...
Really? I spent a year in Somalia, and there were kids with AKs that handled weapons better than most Americans.

Conflating weapons, ethnicity and nationality in this case has no basis in fact. Until I see official reports stating otherwise, I'm sticking with negligent discharge.

A police officer screwed up, with fatal results. Period.
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  #80  
Old 22 July 2017, 10:19
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Originally Posted by fy0834 View Post
Issueing a Somalian a firearm with authority to use it

Is like giving a job to a serial arsonist in the "Diamond Match Factory"

Don't be surprised when ...
I won't even engage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
Really? I spent a year in Somalia, and there were kids with AKs that handled weapons better than most Americans.

Conflating weapons, ethnicity and nationality in this case has no basis in fact. Until I see official reports stating otherwise, I'm sticking with negligent discharge.

A police officer screwed up, with fatal results. Period.
I have to agree here Tracy, race, ethnicity, gender, etc has nothing to do with how stupid someone is. Stupidity is one thing that won't ever discriminate. It's based off of the choices of people that are consciously stupid enough to make those stupid decisions. Thus, if I had to define stupidity, it would be simple. When one makes a decision to do wrongdoing to others, with the intention of doing so without even attempting to make any opposing decisions.
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