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Old 3 July 2012, 17:29
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USMC Female Infantry and all other Women in Combat Arms discussions

I thought this was an interesting article written by a Female Marine Corps Captain. She makes a lot of good points.

Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal

Last edited by RGR.Montcalm; 7 December 2012 at 14:16.
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Old 3 July 2012, 17:53
sargentsk sargentsk is offline
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Great article. If you keep the requirements the same, go for it. I don't think many would make it. Some men can't hang, most women will not.
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Old 3 July 2012, 18:16
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Second. Superbly written and well researched with enough first hand anecdotal evidence by Capt. Petronio to warrant putting the spotlight on DACOWITS and its misguided agenda.

Semper Fi Captain.
Death is a farcical pile of bullshit.

I refuse to participate.

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Quote: could be raining pu$$y and troops will complain and blame the leadership for not providing an equal ration of a$$holes

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In Special Forces we had a saying: "Work hard in silence, let your success do the talking."

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Old 3 July 2012, 18:46
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Joe273- thanks for sharing. The author obviously put a lot of thought, research, and effort into this article. Probably the best thing I've read in regards to this situation.
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Old 3 July 2012, 19:14
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They won't listen.

They want to wrap reality around their agenda, they're not wrapping their agenda around reality.

I once spent hours trying to explain this to a group of liberals on a facebook group, only to be told that I'm sexist and mysogynist. Yeah, I know, facebook, gay.
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Old 3 July 2012, 19:18
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And not only that, but her 1RMs for squats and benches, while impressive for her gender, have to be taken into context.

Although those are likely very impressive numbers when taking her body weight into context, a combat load is a combat load is a combat load. We have yet to actually digest the lessons of "The Soldier's Load and the Mobility of a Nation" and put them into effect as an institution.
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Old 3 July 2012, 19:24
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Hopefully someone with some sense reads this.
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Old 3 July 2012, 19:26
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Excellent article, and I agree 100%.

She cites many very solid reasons this is not a smart move, and there are many others that are equally valid. The problem with this issue is that there are also so many lamebrained sexist arguments against females in the infantry, that in the minds of politicians, feminists, and the mothers of America, the position of being opposed to females in infantry has been conflated with the worst 10% of its adherents. A rational argument has been strawmanned into what is essentially an automatic accusation of sexism.

Hopefully articles like this will open some eyes and minds... but then again, I doubt it. This officer--a female and combat vet with obvious credibility and experience--will no doubt be labelled some kind of "Uncle Tom" by the opposition.
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Old 3 July 2012, 19:34
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someone aint making Major of Marines. Just sayin'
Wolves and alligators should be cross-bred to make wolfagators that will be silent and fast, and we'll never have to hear from those people, they will just be wolfagator shit.

Are you fucking serious? That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all week...and I'm at a senior staff planning conference, so, the bar has been set pretty high. You should be proud. - Gavin
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Old 3 July 2012, 19:37
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Thumbs up

Well written, Capt.

Semper Fi, indeed....
Losing faith in humanity, one assclown at a time....
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Old 3 July 2012, 20:16
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The Captain wrote a well reasoned and supported argument.
I agree with her and always have.
My feelings about women in combat arms have always upset many of my liberal friends who never served, but assume they know better.

Sadly, the Captain's well reasoned, and experience based, argument will never reach the same number of people as dumbasses spouting stupid soundbites.

LRSD rhymes with thirsty

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and loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

-- Mark Twain

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Old 3 July 2012, 20:20
Ralphie Ralphie is offline
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someone aint making Major of Marines.
Sadly, you are very likely correct. Took a lot of moral courage to submit that for publication in the current climate.
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Old 4 July 2012, 01:47
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Took some balls to write that. Hope she doesn't get jammed up for it. Well done Captain.
Never bring a knife to a gunfight. No outside beverages either - they're really strict about that shit.
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Old 4 July 2012, 02:43
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It's funny, FemNazi's love to use programs like Lioness, FET, and CST to "show" how women could and should be in the infantry. But the women who've actually served in those programs are usually the first ones to call bullshit on females in the infantry.
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Old 4 July 2012, 05:02
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Is she hot?
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Old 4 July 2012, 10:50
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Originally Posted by KidA View Post
Is she hot?
Thank you, sir, for restoring the integrity of SOCNET.
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Old 4 July 2012, 12:19
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Thanks for sharing. I'm truly surprised this conversation is even going on. It's not like there is a shortage of studies showing what combat loads do to the male bone and joint health. You would think they could make a reasonable inference on what those loads would do to females. Obviously Congress and Panetta are not going to do a damn thing to insert reason back into the discussion. Kudos to Capt. Katie Petronio!
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Old 4 July 2012, 12:44
Mike504 Mike504 is offline
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She made many excellent points, but DACOWITS and others are willing to sacrifice whatever they must to give women 'true equality' in the military. They will not listen to anything that does not fit their fantasy.
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Old 4 July 2012, 14:42
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Very well written, honest perspective. I appriciated her candor regarding the fact that she believed she could have performed the job as a young 2ndLt., but does not believe she could sustain that performance currently.

In my day (1987-1993) as a grunt I only had one opportunity to work with female Marines, and that was while I attended NCO school at Camp Hansen, Okinawa in mid-1991. I am (and was) a fairly open-minded individual, so I was interested when I was assigned to a squad with a female squad leader. This Devil Dog was squared away. Great PT'er (better than most of the males), excellent leadership skill and knowledge, decent shot, and all around good Marine. Part of the course was a 5 day patrolling FEX in NTA (Northern Training Area). This is in no way a judgement, just a statement of fact. After about 4 hours of patrolling in triple canopy jungle, up and down steep terrain, she was done. Sat down on her pack and cried in the middle of the jungle. We got her through it, but if it had been the real deal, she would have lost us as a squad.
There are exceptions to every rule, but I haven't seen too many in my life time.

Semper Fi.
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Old 5 July 2012, 00:31
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Originally Posted by Remington Raider View Post
someone aint making Major of Marines. Just sayin'
My thought exactly. How dare this young upstart captain voice a dissenting opinion, based on facts and personal experience, that goes against the current political climate/agenda in DOD?

I think her opinion would probably be well received amongst the Corp's leadership, but somewhere along the line, someone is going to bend under subtle (or not so subtle) pressure from DOD on this issue as has happened in the past.
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion." William R. Inge
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