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  #41  
Old 22 February 2018, 23:41
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Originally Posted by B 2/75 View Post
ET1/ss nuke, please keep in mind that this process will absolutely NOT result in a new constitution. Can't happen. It can ONLY table proposed amendments in accordance with what the states voted for.

In this CoS effort, which makes it different from all preceding efforts, is that each state's legislature (12 have passed it so far) votes on a specific set of three proposed amendment topics: 1) Term Limits, 2) Fiscal Responsibility, and 3) Limiting government overreach.
Thank you for the clarification. I'm on board now!
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  #42  
Old 23 February 2018, 04:45
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  #43  
Old 23 February 2018, 07:30
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I would be more concerned with the flow of money going into peoples bank accounts during a convention. Maybe I am ignorant, well I am, but I cant see how non political people ( legislators, new and old) would not get involved and sway things for their agenda.
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  #44  
Old 23 February 2018, 10:51
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Signed. fingers crossed.
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  #45  
Old 23 February 2018, 13:13
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I only wish there were three more: #4) Eliminate the 16th Amendment, #5) Eliminate the 17th Amendment, and #6) Eliminate the Federal Reserve. IMHO this would put us back on track in accordance to our Founding Vision and truly give the power back to the people.
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  #46  
Old 23 February 2018, 14:18
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I would be more concerned with the flow of money going into peoples bank accounts during a convention. Maybe I am ignorant, well I am, but I cant see how non political people ( legislators, new and old) would not get involved and sway things for their agenda.
This would be essentially going over Congress' head, as well as the POTUS. They could try to shape it to their benefit, but it is essentially the States coalescing to reset the Federal Govt.
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  #47  
Old 23 February 2018, 14:31
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This would be essentially going over Congress' head, as well as the POTUS. They could try to shape it to their benefit, but it is essentially the States coalescing to reset the Federal Govt.
Exactly. Unfortunately, the 10th Amendment has been effectively neutered with the creation of the 17th. Give States the ability to appoint and recall their own Senators. The ones who do not represent their State are recalled and replaced by the ones that will the way it used to be for the first 130 years since our founding.
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  #48  
Old 23 February 2018, 14:56
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Exactly. The States are not represented in the Senate, as they were intended to be. Senator, by having them elected by the people, are nothing more than just an even-more-pompous version of a Representative. There's no point in having two chambers of Congress if you're going to just turn them into House of Reps 1 and House of Reps 2.

I've told people this and their stupid goddamn lemming response is: "So? I get more representation so I don't give a shit. That's a good thing". It's at that point I wish I had a bag of white powder to leave in their mailbox. Stupid small-minded selfish fucks. It's the entire reason why voting is not a right. It's a duty and a responsibility to be placed upon those who've demonstrated themselves to have a vested interest in the direction of the Country. AKA not "ye olde towne drunkard" or "Ye olde childless cat-lady".
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  #49  
Old 23 February 2018, 16:28
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It's at that point I wish I had a bag of white powder to leave in their mailbox.

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  #50  
Old 27 February 2018, 00:04
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I signed it a while ago. Levin has been yelling about it for a couple of years.
I think it's our best chance to turn this runaway ship around.
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  #51  
Old 27 February 2018, 10:19
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Old 27 February 2018, 10:38
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  #53  
Old 28 February 2018, 04:34
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  #54  
Old 2 March 2018, 09:47
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So far I have only received 1 reply from my 32nd district Congressman who supports this. The only (R) in the bunch that letters were sent to.
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  #55  
Old 2 March 2018, 10:40
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I havent received any response at all.
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  #56  
Old 2 March 2018, 11:36
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I havent received any response at all.
Me either.
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  #57  
Old 2 March 2018, 11:44
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Are you guys saying that you're awaiting a response to your petition from your Representative? I've not gotten one, either... but then again I didn't expect one. Good manners on the part of the elected official seem to indicate a response would be in order, but I suppose I gave up on expecting proper etiquette long ago from anybody who's been elected.

On a different tack, I'd encourage any of you with a bit of freetime and some fire in your belly to get involved as a volunteer for CoS. Your state's representative will hook you up; they're a great bunch of like-minded people, all working to better our lot in life. Your small bit will count.
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  #58  
Old 2 March 2018, 12:02
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Originally Posted by B 2/75 View Post
Are you guys saying that you're awaiting a response to your petition from your Representative? I've not gotten one, either... but then again I didn't expect one. Good manners on the part of the elected official seem to indicate a response would be in order, but I suppose I gave up on expecting proper etiquette long ago from anybody who's been elected.

On a different tack, I'd encourage any of you with a bit of freetime and some fire in your belly to get involved as a volunteer for CoS. Your state's representative will hook you up; they're a great bunch of like-minded people, all working to better our lot in life. Your small bit will count.
I have done this in Upstate NY. I have met some awesome people in the past week or so after going to a volunteer meeting for this movement last Friday. Really refreshing to be around like minded people. We were going to go door to door grass roots style this weekend for signatures but the snow has delayed that.

One major hurdle is the misconception of what this is. So many of the articale V petitions are just batshit crazy so when people google them or have heard of them, they are very suspicious of what the intentions are. We are developing some questions and answers to counter this. If anyone interested I can post them once they have been finalized.
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  #59  
Old 2 March 2018, 13:20
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Here's an example, posted by the Washington Post a few years ago, of the fearmongering that we'll be up against in the coming effort. Mark my words, right now the CoS is not even a blip on the average American's radar. Even "well-informed" citizens that I speak with have never heard of it. But as more and more states sign on, it will manifestly dominate the national news cycle, and will be the object of more concentrated disinformation campaigns than we've ever seen.

If you read through this article, and have even a rudimentary understanding of how the CoS will work, it will be obvious to you that the author is fanning flames of uncertainty that aren't there at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WAPO
A constitutional convention could be the single most dangerous way to ‘fix’ American government

By Robert Greenstein October 21, 2014
Robert Greenstein is president of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

A dangerous proposal is circulating in states across the country that could widen political divisions and jeopardize cherished rights and freedoms. The push is coming primarily from well-organized, arch-conservative groups seeking to capitalize on the decline in public trust in government to limit the federal government’s role and spending powers. And the method they prefer is a constitutional convention — the first since the 1787 conclave that produced the U.S. Constitution.

Under the Constitution, if two-thirds of state legislatures call for a convention to amend it, one must be convened. Some of those pushing for a convention say that 24 of the needed 34 legislatures have approved such resolutions. Advocates of a convention have targeted more than a dozen other states and are developing lobbying campaigns to push for such resolutions there.

The implications are enormous. At stake, potentially, are the freedoms we take for granted under the Bill of Rights; the powers of the president, Congress and the courts; and the policies the government can or cannot pursue. Conventioneers could alter absolutely anything about the way the United States is governed. Some say they want to terminate all federal taxes and to require super-majorities in the House and the Senate to put any new taxes in their place. Others want to bar the government from carrying out a number of its functions, for example by constraining its ability to regulate interstate commerce. Whatever changes a convention approved would be enshrined in the Constitution if three-fourths of the states ratified them.

Yet the processes for impaneling the convention, selecting the delegates, setting the convention’s voting rules, and determining what issues the convention would consider and how much of the Constitution it would seek to rewrite are a mystery. That means that under a convention, anything goes. There are no rules, guideposts or procedures in any of these areas.

The Constitution has been amended 27 times since 1791, in every case by the other amendment process allowed by our nation’s charter: two-thirds of the Senate and the House approve an amendment and three-quarters of state legislatures then ratify it. This process has served us well. The 27th amendment, which prohibits members of Congress from raising their salary until the current term ends, took effect in 1992.

By contrast, there has not been a constitutional convention since the first one, and for good reason. As constitutional experts from the late Chief Justice Warren Burger to Justice Antonin Scalia to Harvard Law School Professor Laurence Tribe have warned, a constitutional convention would place the nation in uncharted territory, with very serious risks for our political system. Convening a convention, as Tribe put it, would be “putting the whole Constitution up for grabs.” And although I don’t often agree with Scalia, he hit the nail on the head when he said recently: “I certainly would not want a constitutional convention. Whoa! Who knows what would come out of it?”

The Constitution sets no rules for how a constitutional convention would work. What standards determine whether 34 states have called for a convention? Do all resolutions that state legislatures have ever passed count — even if they called for conventions on very different topics, or were passed 50 or 100 years ago, or were later rescinded, as some have been? Oklahoma, for instance, passed a resolution in 1976 calling for a convention but rescinded it in 2009, citing concerns about throwing the Constitution wide open to unknown changes; some proponents argue that Oklahoma should still count anyway. Can that be right? The Constitution is silent on all of these issues.

That’s just the start. If a convention were called, how many delegates would each state get, and how would they be selected? How long could the convention last? The Constitution provides no guidance on those questions either.

Constitutional law experts generally agree that it would be up to Congress to decide these issues. The president has no role, and with no legal guideposts, the courts probably would decline to intervene. Given the high stakes involved, these issues could generate intense partisan division and acrimony, and Congress could make decisions on them on a highly partisan basis.

Suppose, for example, that Congress ruled that every state would have two votes in the convention and the convention could approve amendments by simple majority vote. In that case, the 26 least populous states, with less than 18 percent of the nation’s population, could approve broad changes in our Constitution and send them to the states for ratification.

Some convention proponents, such as the American Legislative Exchange Council, blithely promise that Congress could limit the scope of the amendments that a convention could consider. But many prominent constitutional law experts disagree. The Constitution provides no authority above that of a constitutional convention itself; accordingly, the courts probably would decline to intervene here, as well, to limit a convention’s scope. As Burger wrote, “[T]here is no way to effectively limit or muzzle the actions of a Constitutional Convention. The Convention could make its own rules and set its own agenda. Congress might try to limit the convention to one amendment or one issue, but there is no way to assure that the Convention would obey.”

Similarly, as the late Justice Arthur Goldberg cautioned, “There is no enforceable mechanism to prevent a convention from reporting out wholesale changes to our Constitution and Bill of Rights.” Proponents are already calling for a convention to consider such actions (in addition to ending all current taxes) as setting term limits for Congress and the Supreme Court, imposing sharp limits on presidential authority, and scaling back the General Welfare and Commerce clauses of the Constitution.

Moreover, given the potential to write major policy changes into the Constitution where they would be almost impossible to remove, powerful, well-funded interest groups probably would spend vast sums to influence the selection of delegates and then the convention itself. There are no federal or state limits on what powerful interests and wealthy individuals could spend to influence convention delegates. Burger expressed concern that a “Constitutional Convention today would be a free-for-all for special interest groups.”

One can readily imagine a convention leading to extensive “log-rolling,” where delegates backed certain changes to the Constitution in return for others’ support for their own preferred changes. A sprawling package of alterations could emerge, designed to build support for the overall package by including the favored fixes of single-issue constituencies.

Our country faces enough problems and division. We don’t need to add to them and inflame an already toxic political environment by placing at risk the constitutional structure that has served us well for more than two centuries — and heading into dangerous, unknown territory by convening a convention to rework the Constitution.
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  #60  
Old 2 March 2018, 13:59
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I'm on board with this, but what is to stop some circuit court judge to rule "nope that's not allowed"? I get that it is spelled out in the Constitution, but so is a bunch of other stuff.
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